Fly Tippers caught red handed... and nothing done!

Fly Tippers caught red handed... and nothing done!

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Discussion

Four Litre

Original Poster:

2,013 posts

191 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
I live in a village just outside of London and have the pleasure of not one but two 'traveller' sites at the other end of the village. Over the past few years we've had a major problem with tipper trucks fly tipping, blocking roads and any carpark they can think of.

So out of my daily morning dog walk (8.30) we are coming home and I see a lovely 'traveller class' tipper truck pull into the carpark of the sports ground, piled high with builders bags and all sorts of crap and start unloading. I've taken a load of photos of them unloading and even had to time to take an HD movie!! I then called the police who seemed slightly interested but didn't show up!

Having got home, had to get on with work and so I called up the police for an update whilst grabbing lunch and to again tell them I have photos and a movie of the crime, apart from tumbleweed blowing by all they could say was that they had called the council to clear it up and that I could get in touch with them If I liked!!!

Now I cant let this go, I called up the council and they said they cant do anything unless I am willing to stand up in court and give evidence. Given that this would be against a whole travelled camp at the end of my road, I'm not that stupid. Apparently without this a prosecution cant be achieved.

For any legal types out there is this true, as I'm gutted they get away with this again and again and nobody in their right mind can give evidence against them without serious repercussions.

Before any keyboard warrior types tell me I should of dominated the car park. Its wasn't an option as I'm pending an operation for a fracture to my lower spine, and again, aren't that stupid!



Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:25


Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:30


Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:31

Escy

3,907 posts

148 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Share it around local Facebook groups, maybe that'll get some traction?

KAgantua

3,848 posts

130 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Everyone knows plod are st scared of travellers mate - wouldnt waste your breath.

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
They're misunderstood.

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
If the council are really so inept that they're trying to put you off by scaring you with court, I would definitely contact your MP.

I've never said that before, but MPs love this sort of thing as it blights communities and it's an easy win for them in terms of pressuring the council to act.

Four Litre

Original Poster:

2,013 posts

191 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
PorkInsider said:
They're misunderstood.
enriching the car park with culture?

okgo

37,860 posts

197 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Where is this village?

Just want to make sure I don't move there.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
The LA are usually responsible for that sort of thing.

If a person is accused of a crime, they are entitled to have the evidence heard in court. A pretty fundamental aspect of the CJS.

KAgantua said:
Everyone knows plod are st scared of travellers mate - wouldnt waste your breath.
Must be why so many are in prison.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
I understand it is your local council you should be reporting it to?

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
A good quality video should be sufficient to prosecute the fly tippers with.

In the meantime - in relation to worries about giving evidence

Special court measures
Special measures are measures which have been put in place to help vulnerable and intimidated witnesses give their best possible evidence in court.

Special measures include:

screens around the witness box to prevent you from having to see the defendant and the defendant from seeing you - you will still be seen by others in the court including the judge, jury, lawyers and barristers and, in some courts, the public gallery
giving evidence via a live TV link outside the courtroom - you will be able to see the courtroom and people in the courtroom, including the defendant, will be able to see you on a television screen
giving evidence in private - members of the public and the press can be excluded from the court in some cases
judges and barristers removing their wigs and gowns in the Crown Court to make the proceedings seem less intimidating
a video recorded interview with you before the trial to be admitted by the court as your evidence - a live link or screen can be used when you are cross-examined by the defence
a communicator or interpreter

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Alucidnation said:
I understand it is your local council you should be reporting it to?
If reported to Police, then they should record and deal alongside the council

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.

2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.

Peter911

473 posts

156 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.

2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
Is that dispropotionate to the general population, or disproportionate to the crimes they commit?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
The former. The PH myth that travellers are immune from the criminal law is a myth.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th October 15:54

Four Litre

Original Poster:

2,013 posts

191 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.

2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
So I have supplied evidence, however they are saying without me attending court etc, it cant be used.

Wonderman

2,223 posts

194 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Four Litre said:
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.

2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
So I have supplied evidence, however they are saying without me attending court etc, it cant be used.
So does that apply to dashcam evidence too?

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
The former.
Any guesses as to the proportion of the latter?

Because otherwise we're saying that travellers are more likely to end up in prison for any given crime than a non-traveller, which sounds a bit unlikely.

Escy

3,907 posts

148 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Can't they just dish out a fine based on the video?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all

Criminal courts apply strict rules of evidence. Hearsay is only admissible in limited circumstances.

Hearsay is representation of fact or opinion made by a person otherwise than in oral evidence in court, when tendered as evidence of any fact asserted. Thus a photo or a film is hearsay and calls for verification by oral evidence.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
Escy said:
Can't they just dish out a fine based on the video?
No. The UK still has the rule of law. The rule of law and due process extend to all, no matter how much we may dislike them.