Fly Tippers caught red handed... and nothing done!
Discussion
I live in a village just outside of London and have the pleasure of not one but two 'traveller' sites at the other end of the village. Over the past few years we've had a major problem with tipper trucks fly tipping, blocking roads and any carpark they can think of.
So out of my daily morning dog walk (8.30) we are coming home and I see a lovely 'traveller class' tipper truck pull into the carpark of the sports ground, piled high with builders bags and all sorts of crap and start unloading. I've taken a load of photos of them unloading and even had to time to take an HD movie!! I then called the police who seemed slightly interested but didn't show up!
Having got home, had to get on with work and so I called up the police for an update whilst grabbing lunch and to again tell them I have photos and a movie of the crime, apart from tumbleweed blowing by all they could say was that they had called the council to clear it up and that I could get in touch with them If I liked!!!
Now I cant let this go, I called up the council and they said they cant do anything unless I am willing to stand up in court and give evidence. Given that this would be against a whole travelled camp at the end of my road, I'm not that stupid. Apparently without this a prosecution cant be achieved.
For any legal types out there is this true, as I'm gutted they get away with this again and again and nobody in their right mind can give evidence against them without serious repercussions.
Before any keyboard warrior types tell me I should of dominated the car park. Its wasn't an option as I'm pending an operation for a fracture to my lower spine, and again, aren't that stupid!
So out of my daily morning dog walk (8.30) we are coming home and I see a lovely 'traveller class' tipper truck pull into the carpark of the sports ground, piled high with builders bags and all sorts of crap and start unloading. I've taken a load of photos of them unloading and even had to time to take an HD movie!! I then called the police who seemed slightly interested but didn't show up!
Having got home, had to get on with work and so I called up the police for an update whilst grabbing lunch and to again tell them I have photos and a movie of the crime, apart from tumbleweed blowing by all they could say was that they had called the council to clear it up and that I could get in touch with them If I liked!!!
Now I cant let this go, I called up the council and they said they cant do anything unless I am willing to stand up in court and give evidence. Given that this would be against a whole travelled camp at the end of my road, I'm not that stupid. Apparently without this a prosecution cant be achieved.
For any legal types out there is this true, as I'm gutted they get away with this again and again and nobody in their right mind can give evidence against them without serious repercussions.
Before any keyboard warrior types tell me I should of dominated the car park. Its wasn't an option as I'm pending an operation for a fracture to my lower spine, and again, aren't that stupid!
Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:25
Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:30
Edited by Four Litre on Monday 26th October 15:31
If the council are really so inept that they're trying to put you off by scaring you with court, I would definitely contact your MP.
I've never said that before, but MPs love this sort of thing as it blights communities and it's an easy win for them in terms of pressuring the council to act.
I've never said that before, but MPs love this sort of thing as it blights communities and it's an easy win for them in terms of pressuring the council to act.
The LA are usually responsible for that sort of thing.
If a person is accused of a crime, they are entitled to have the evidence heard in court. A pretty fundamental aspect of the CJS.
If a person is accused of a crime, they are entitled to have the evidence heard in court. A pretty fundamental aspect of the CJS.
KAgantua said:
Everyone knows plod are st scared of travellers mate - wouldnt waste your breath.
Must be why so many are in prison. A good quality video should be sufficient to prosecute the fly tippers with.
In the meantime - in relation to worries about giving evidence
Special court measures
Special measures are measures which have been put in place to help vulnerable and intimidated witnesses give their best possible evidence in court.
Special measures include:
screens around the witness box to prevent you from having to see the defendant and the defendant from seeing you - you will still be seen by others in the court including the judge, jury, lawyers and barristers and, in some courts, the public gallery
giving evidence via a live TV link outside the courtroom - you will be able to see the courtroom and people in the courtroom, including the defendant, will be able to see you on a television screen
giving evidence in private - members of the public and the press can be excluded from the court in some cases
judges and barristers removing their wigs and gowns in the Crown Court to make the proceedings seem less intimidating
a video recorded interview with you before the trial to be admitted by the court as your evidence - a live link or screen can be used when you are cross-examined by the defence
a communicator or interpreter
In the meantime - in relation to worries about giving evidence
Special court measures
Special measures are measures which have been put in place to help vulnerable and intimidated witnesses give their best possible evidence in court.
Special measures include:
screens around the witness box to prevent you from having to see the defendant and the defendant from seeing you - you will still be seen by others in the court including the judge, jury, lawyers and barristers and, in some courts, the public gallery
giving evidence via a live TV link outside the courtroom - you will be able to see the courtroom and people in the courtroom, including the defendant, will be able to see you on a television screen
giving evidence in private - members of the public and the press can be excluded from the court in some cases
judges and barristers removing their wigs and gowns in the Crown Court to make the proceedings seem less intimidating
a video recorded interview with you before the trial to be admitted by the court as your evidence - a live link or screen can be used when you are cross-examined by the defence
a communicator or interpreter
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.
2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
Is that dispropotionate to the general population, or disproportionate to the crimes they commit?2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.
2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
So I have supplied evidence, however they are saying without me attending court etc, it cant be used.2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
Four Litre said:
Breadvan72 said:
1. No prosecution can proceed without evidence. OP, if you won't give evidence, the case can't proceed.
2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
So I have supplied evidence, however they are saying without me attending court etc, it cant be used.2. The police and CPS do succeed against travellers, who make up a disproportionately large percentage of the prison population.
Criminal courts apply strict rules of evidence. Hearsay is only admissible in limited circumstances.
Hearsay is representation of fact or opinion made by a person otherwise than in oral evidence in court, when tendered as evidence of any fact asserted. Thus a photo or a film is hearsay and calls for verification by oral evidence.
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