Can I go for a recreational drive out?

[tighnamara]

Gareth79 said:

OP said they live in a Tier 3 area, you have quoted the Tier 4 rules which don't appy. There are no stay at home rules in Tier 3 areas.

But it does say this:

Travelling into or out of a Tier 3 alert level area

Avoid travelling outside your area, including for overnight stays, other than where necessary, such as:

for work
for education
to access voluntary, charitable or youth services
because of caring responsibilities
for moving home
to visit your support bubble
for a medical appointment or treatment

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert

[Pothole]

tighnamara said:

Gareth79 said:

OP said they live in a Tier 3 area, you have quoted the Tier 4 rules which don't appy. There are no stay at home rules in Tier 3 areas.

But it does say this:

Travelling into or out of a Tier 3 alert level area

Avoid travelling outside your area, including for overnight stays, other than where necessary, such as:

for work
for education
to access voluntary, charitable or youth services
because of caring responsibilities
for moving home
to visit your support bubble
for a medical appointment or treatment

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert

FFS, that's guidance, not legislation.

[Stick Legs]

Just go and drive, and if you are stopped you are on your way to the shops...


...and your wife needs walnut puree and the local Waitrose are all out so you need to go to the next one.

[jondude]

Had to take the wife to work today (nurse) and the traffic was as heavy as I have ever seen. Now it cannot be that all these drivers are going around the roundabout and home again.

Was the same during the last lockdown too.

I would imagine if you were honest and just said we cannot take it anymore so are out for a drive the police will just ask you to go home IF you are the one among the thousands they stop.

So long as you then do a U turn, all will be swell.

[tighnamara]

Pothole said:

tighnamara said:

Gareth79 said:

OP said they live in a Tier 3 area, you have quoted the Tier 4 rules which don't appy. There are no stay at home rules in Tier 3 areas.

But it does say this:

Travelling into or out of a Tier 3 alert level area

Avoid travelling outside your area, including for overnight stays, other than where necessary, such as:

for work
for education
to access voluntary, charitable or youth services
because of caring responsibilities
for moving home
to visit your support bubble
for a medical appointment or treatment

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert

FFS, that's guidance, not legislation.

FFS, Didn’t say it wasn’t guidance, the link gave it away maybe........

[RB Will]

brisel said:

I lost the will to live reading the Tier 4 Rules thread. I also toyed with the idea of asking this in the Roads forum...

I live in a Tier 3 area and there are some lovely twisty roads in a Tier 4 area. I want to go for a hoon. Is this illegal?

I do not want to know what is morally right or wrong. I will not stop for fuel in the T4 area, and will carry outdoor clothing & footwear not just for safety but for demonstrating that I intend to stretch my legs in the hills where said roads are. Essential travel? No. Avoiding other people? Damn right!

I await the condemnation of the PH masses....

The guidance on .gov says you should not travel from T1,2,3 into a T4 so having your walking boots ready probably won’t help you if stopped.

[kiethton]

RB Will said:

brisel said:

I lost the will to live reading the Tier 4 Rules thread. I also toyed with the idea of asking this in the Roads forum...

I live in a Tier 3 area and there are some lovely twisty roads in a Tier 4 area. I want to go for a hoon. Is this illegal?

I do not want to know what is morally right or wrong. I will not stop for fuel in the T4 area, and will carry outdoor clothing & footwear not just for safety but for demonstrating that I intend to stretch my legs in the hills where said roads are. Essential travel? No. Avoiding other people? Damn right!

I await the condemnation of the PH masses....

The guidance on .gov says you should not travel from T1,2,3 into a T4 so having your walking boots ready probably won’t help you if stopped.

It won't, because all you need to do is point the gestapo to point 2 (d) which permits recreation, which driving is....

[brisel]

It’s still guidance only. I live 1 mile from the Tier 4 boundary and my postal town is in the T4 area so I would have a reasonable excuse for being there, though not if I’m an hour away.

I still can’t find anything in the law that says that I must not be out in a car.

[kiethton]

brisel said:

It’s still guidance only. I live 1 mile from the Tier 4 boundary and my postal town is in the T4 area so I would have a reasonable excuse for being there, though not if I’m an hour away.

I still can’t find anything in the law that says that I must not be out in a car.

You have a reasonable excuse regardless of the distance FYI

[A1VDY]

Don't give it a second thought. Going by the traffic when I got to the Norwich ring road it's just buisness as usual (we were out to pick up a trade car).
Went past a coffee shop a nd a vape shop both with customers, same as the hardware shop I sometimes use.
The police don't have the resources to stop and enquire where you're going. Neighbours are half a mile away but drove past their house and there sat around 6 cars in the drive and know they only have 2.
Tier 4 but it's life as normal in Norfolk it seems..

[RB Will]

kiethton said:

RB Will said:

brisel said:

I lost the will to live reading the Tier 4 Rules thread. I also toyed with the idea of asking this in the Roads forum...

I live in a Tier 3 area and there are some lovely twisty roads in a Tier 4 area. I want to go for a hoon. Is this illegal?

I do not want to know what is morally right or wrong. I will not stop for fuel in the T4 area, and will carry outdoor clothing & footwear not just for safety but for demonstrating that I intend to stretch my legs in the hills where said roads are. Essential travel? No. Avoiding other people? Damn right!

I await the condemnation of the PH masses....

The guidance on .gov says you should not travel from T1,2,3 into a T4 so having your walking boots ready probably won’t help you if stopped.

It won't, because all you need to do is point the gestapo to point 2 (d) which permits recreation, which driving is....

Recreation of any form is not on the list of reasons you can travel INTO a T4 for on .gov.
If he was already in the T4 then fine to go out in his area.

[anonymous-user]

90% of England is tier4. The rest is bound to be, when the chuckle brothers next hold a briefing
So the tier ‘borders’ will be a dim & distant memory!

[anonymous-user]

RB Will said:

Recreation of any form is not on the list of reasons you can travel INTO a T4 for on .gov.
If he was already in the T4 then fine to go out in his area.

There are ZERO restrictions on entering a T4 area. None. Nil. Nowt.

A general plea: if you do not know what the law is, please stop telling people what you think the law is. Please note that stuff on .gov does not state the law unless it is legislation on the legislation page.

[ClaphamGT3]

Oceanrower said:

IJWS15 said:

Going for a hon wouldn’t be seen as a valid reason.

From examples on the BBC website today going for a rive to go for a stroll in the country may also get you into trouble - police telling people that you should exercise from home!

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should - people ignoring this is the main reason why the restrictions are being extended.

And here we go again. The merry-go-round has another spin.

Did you read the OP. Question asked and answered.

You're wrong. The BBC is wrong. The police are wrong.

The legislation linked to above is what matters. Anything over and above that is not the law.

100% agree and would add two points:

1) we are 'in this mess' because we have a weak and populist Govt that is making decisions on the basis of what will play well on the front page of tomorrow's editions of the Sun and the Mail. We are not 'in this mess' because many see the Govt's response for the nonsense it is and disregard it.

2) another poster's response earlier in the thread to someone who quite rightly said the OP can go for a drive if he wants was 'says who?'. It's important to call this out as an example of the erosion in civil liberties that the unthinking adherence to whatever ill-formed claptrap the Govt spouts at today's press conference brings about. We live in a free society and neither the OP nor any of us have to justify why we can do something; the Govt and the authorities have to justify why we can't.

Point two is dangerously overlooked by the hard of thinking in the on-going Coronahysteria

[Buster73]

IJWS15 said:

Going for a hon wouldn’t be seen as a valid reason.

From examples on the BBC website today going for a rive to go for a stroll in the country may also get you into trouble - police telling people that you should exercise from home!

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should - people ignoring this is the main reason why the restrictions are being extended.

So driving say 5 miles instead of 2 miles to go for some exercise will increase the risk of spreading or catching Covid by what % exactly?

[RB Will]

Breadvan72 said:

RB Will said:

Recreation of any form is not on the list of reasons you can travel INTO a T4 for on .gov.
If he was already in the T4 then fine to go out in his area.

There are ZERO restrictions on entering a T4 area. None. Nil. Nowt.

A general plea: if you do not know what the law is, please stop telling people what you think the law is. Please note that stuff on .gov does not state the law unless it is legislation on the legislation page.

Chill out love, I wasn’t claiming anything was law or that I’m offering expert advice. Im just regurgitating what it says on the government website.
Not being a lawyer or freeman of the land type I’m not sure I could be bothered with the argument with a copper if pulled, over the difference between published guidelines and actual law.

[Foss62]

Buster73 said:

IJWS15 said:

Going for a hon wouldn’t be seen as a valid reason.

From examples on the BBC website today going for a rive to go for a stroll in the country may also get you into trouble - police telling people that you should exercise from home!

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should - people ignoring this is the main reason why the restrictions are being extended.

So driving say 5 miles instead of 2 miles to go for some exercise will increase the risk of spreading or catching Covid by what % exactly?

The logic now that we seem to have faster spreading variants is that of containment. The longer the distance travelled, the higher the chance that something new will be introduced to an area. The News Reports about people driving from London to the Brecon Beacons show an extreme, but even your five miles does come with a greater risk of speeding up the spread than exercising two miles away. Think of the increased diversity of contacts (both first and second hand) if the entire country drove five miles from home in random directions and then walked two miles, as opposed to walking two miles from their front doors.

[davek_964]

Foss62 said:

The logic now that we seem to have faster spreading variants is that of containment. The longer the distance travelled, the higher the chance that something new will be introduced to an area. The News Reports about people driving from London to the Brecon Beacons show an extreme, but even your five miles does come with a greater risk of speeding up the spread than exercising two miles away. Think of the increased diversity of contacts (both first and second hand) if the entire country drove five miles from home in random directions and then walked two miles, as opposed to walking two miles from their front doors.

Ah, so now walking outside while social distancing also causes mass infection does it? Are you snogging random people as you walk past them?

[anonymous-user]

RB Will said:

...

Im just regurgitating what it says on the government website...

Yes, but why?


WW2 related irony: nowadays, spreading alarm and despondency means spouting the claptrap on .gov.uk

[Foss62]

Breadvan72 said:

RB Will said:

Recreation of any form is not on the list of reasons you can travel INTO a T4 for on .gov.
If he was already in the T4 then fine to go out in his area.

There are ZERO restrictions on entering a T4 area. None. Nil. Nowt.

A general plea: if you do not know what the law is, please stop telling people what you think the law is. Please note that stuff on .gov does not state the law unless it is legislation on the legislation page.

As he points out below he is not quoting the law, but there is a very clear indication on a government website that people should not travel into tier 4 areas other than for reasons that most people would accept are sensible exceptions.
A neighbour (who did have a good reason) was stopped a few days ago, on entry and exit from a tier 4 area. Most people are not going to want that sort of hassle, coupled with the (admittedly unlikely) possibility of legal action.
I am a scientist not a lawyer, but would be genuinely interested on your thoughts on other situations where the Police restrict people's movements apparently without cast-iron specific legal backing. As an example I would be quite happy to leave a football ground by the route that the Police are 'forcing' away supporters to go (instead of blundering straight into the exiting home crowd). Do you also object to that sort of thing?