Incorrect number plate spacing?

[Armchair_Expert]

carreauchompeur said:

Speaking as a traffic cop, and this is probably a reasonably widespread view, when it comes to plates:

-So long as you’ve got the correct font, size etc and the car ANPR will read it properly a little bit of mis spacing will generally be overlooked.
-Hell, on modified cars so long as something half reasonable is on the front you’ll be alright.
-Utter spoons who use screws to change letters, completely wacky fonts, altering spacing between letters (13 to B etc), dark tinted plates...always a pull, almost always a ticket
-Front plates that have ‘just’ ‘fallen off’ a beautifully polished modded front bumper... always a pull, always a ticket.

I cannot however speak for the fashion police.

/\ This is the exact situation.

I have a plate that is technically illegal, however it is not a tt plate. No digits are misreperesented, altered or changed, no screws are placed, the only thing I have done is move a single space so rather than XXX XXX mine reads XXXX XX. There is no name or word on mine, simply my car model number at the start. I don't always run the illegal plate either, but if I am going to a car meet I do sometimes use it as I am proud of my car and the effort I have put into making it wonderful example of what it is, so to me the plate sets it off. I fully accept the risk of getting pulled for it and if I did would just be honest, but the fact remains it is fully legible, able to be read by ANPR and doesn't shout about what it is.

I have no idea why plates annoy people so much, unless they are provocative like the Merc one posted earlier on. I have always maintained that there is a difference between a subtle plate that has no altered characters or font, versus one that has had multiple manipulations and badges or font changes.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

If its definitely recognisable and is only one space its not great but is recognisable for someone involved in a crash with you. That's the main thing. It's when it's tinted or pressed together with words made up. That's plain wrong.


My question is why? In the first place. It does look like you are trying too hard.

I'm buying a fast V70 for my 50th

[Fast and Spurious]

Armchair_Expert said:

/\ This is the exact situation.

I have a plate that is technically illegal, however it is not a tt plate. No digits are misreperesented, altered or changed, no screws are placed, the only thing I have done is move a single space so rather than XXX XXX mine reads XXXX XX. There is no name or word on mine, simply my car model number at the start. I don't always run the illegal plate either, but if I am going to a car meet I do sometimes use it as I am proud of my car and the effort I have put into making it wonderful example of what it is, so to me the plate sets it off. I fully accept the risk of getting pulled for it and if I did would just be honest, but the fact remains it is fully legible, able to be read by ANPR and doesn't shout about what it is.

I have no idea why plates annoy people so much, unless they are provocative like the Merc one posted earlier on. I have always maintained that there is a difference between a subtle plate that has no altered characters or font, versus one that has had multiple manipulations and badges or font changes.

What the hey does that plate "mean"? That you like Australian lager and kisses?

[jonwm]

I'm not a fan of private or misplaced plates, but my wife's cousin (extremely good looking blonde) has had a horrendously mis spaced are for years, and I mean really takes the Mickey spaced and never been pulled. She forgot to change the insurance over to the the new plate when she changed cars last year and was never pulled.

She was pinged on an anpr camera for tax being 1 day out but nothing was mentioned on the plate. The only time was when she took her previous car for an MoT and they failed it as she forgot to take the normal ones.

Seems in the Midlands atleast they aren't bothered

[jakesmith]

I had exactly this for 4 years on my 911
Just moved one space so my initials were at the end as 2 characters
Never got pulled but the old bil obvs came to talk to me once as when I got home there was a leaflet you and your number plate’ and a compliment slip from the counties force attached in my letter box!
I didn’t change it until I changed my car, when I thought really it doesn’t make enough difference to justify the chance of getting stopped as so few people know my initials who are likely to see my car

[Jaguar steve]

Fast and Spurious said:

Armchair_Expert said:

/\ This is the exact situation.

I have a plate that is technically illegal, however it is not a tt plate. No digits are misreperesented, altered or changed, no screws are placed, the only thing I have done is move a single space so rather than XXX XXX mine reads XXXX XX. There is no name or word on mine, simply my car model number at the start. I don't always run the illegal plate either, but if I am going to a car meet I do sometimes use it as I am proud of my car and the effort I have put into making it wonderful example of what it is, so to me the plate sets it off. I fully accept the risk of getting pulled for it and if I did would just be honest, but the fact remains it is fully legible, able to be read by ANPR and doesn't shout about what it is.

I have no idea why plates annoy people so much, unless they are provocative like the Merc one posted earlier on. I have always maintained that there is a difference between a subtle plate that has no altered characters or font, versus one that has had multiple manipulations and badges or font changes.

What the hey does that plate "mean"? That you like Australian lager and kisses?

It means the Platee is entitled to display a illegal plate as the law doesn't apply to him because he's got such a wonderful car...

ETA. It's not actually plates that annoy people - it's the demonstration of fkuck the law arrogance and attitude of entitlement of those who choose to mess about with them that causes annoyance..

Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 1st March 14:24

[rhoderunner]

Armchair_Expert said:

/\ This is the exact situation.

I have a plate that is technically illegal, however it is not a tt plate. No digits are misreperesented, altered or changed, no screws are placed, the only thing I have done is move a single space so rather than XXX XXX mine reads XXXX XX. There is no name or word on mine, simply my car model number at the start. I don't always run the illegal plate either, but if I am going to a car meet I do sometimes use it as I am proud of my car and the effort I have put into making it wonderful example of what it is, so to me the plate sets it off. I fully accept the risk of getting pulled for it and if I did would just be honest, but the fact remains it is fully legible, able to be read by ANPR and doesn't shout about what it is.

I have no idea why plates annoy people so much, unless they are provocative like the Merc one posted earlier on. I have always maintained that there is a difference between a subtle plate that has no altered characters or font, versus one that has had multiple manipulations and badges or font changes.

I agree, I have 2 cars and unfortunately my initials begin with I (which just happens to be the same as the number 1) so for my 50th, my wife bought me a personalised number plate Y11 ??? which after moving the second '1' reads my full initials of my name Y1 1??? (yes, I have 4 initials!) I ONLY put this on the FRONT and happily ran round with this for a couple of years

Last year (before Covid lockdown) we were setting things up for a family event and both cars were heading to the venue to set things up, a police car travelling in the opposite direction must have seen my front plate and turned round (I thought the police car with blue lights flashing was attending an emergency, so I pulled over, only for him to pull in front of me) I obviously failed the attitude test and ended up with a £100 fine :-( I even had the correct number plate in the boot (which I had forgotten about)
The most annoying thing is that a couple of cars behind me my daughter was driving our second car which has BOTH plates slightly altered to read my wife's & my initials (E? 1 1??? instead of E?11 ???) and he had overtaken her to get to me
I can only imagine it was because my plate was on a GTI and not a lowly Up!

[KelWedge]

[quote=un1corn]
However, someone please answer me this;

There's so many of these stupid illegal plates knocking around, and they are confirmed MOT failures. Are you telling me that every single one of these chobbers is going to the hassle of swapping plates before and after an MOT to get it through, or are MOT testers just universally st and not dealing with it?

[/quote

i have (changing the letters) EE 02 EEE, EE 03 EEE & EE 04 EEE
and have had for several years all serviced and mot done at different garages, 2 no comments pass the MOT, Third one failed it, but the rule is correct plates must be attached so have a legal set and 4 cable ties to place over my plates takes 30 seconds to change.
Never been stopped or any issues. apart from people saying thats in good condition for the age

[Armchair_Expert]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Always, as well as ensure I only have 10 pounds of fuel for weight saving, and a slippery waxed chassis for aerodynamic supremacy.

I have learnt a lot since my misguided seat folding days - now I make sure the seats are actually fastened down, as if they rock up and down over bumps on the vertical scale during dynamic driving, the centrifugal force upsets chassis oscillation which can lead to a 0.02 second disadvantage racing Hyundai I30's.

[Pit Pony]

I think you'd have to go a long way from legal to completely ridiculously illegal, before the current generation of ANPR cameras would struggle to recognise the correct Letters and Numbers. Mere spacing illegality isn't going to cause off a problem, such is the advances in technology since the legislation was introduced.

Even none standard fonts should not be an issue.

I'd also suggest that with some machine learning, there is software that could recognise the car's shape, and make an informed judgement as to whether the plate is on the right car, and had not been cloned.

In addition there is no tolerance shown in the legislation. Is it plus or minus 30 mm, 10 mm, 1mm or 0.1 mm or even 0.01 mm

It's got me thinking why it really matters? The only thing miss spaced number plates do is act like a beacon for old bill. Because rebellion isn't allowed.

[Pit Pony]

The funny thing is my wifes daily car has a Local Manchester registration as does my sister in law.

I've joked that both of them bought a car with my initials as the first 2 letters

MJ 11 $£€ and MJ 12 ¥₩@

[underwhelmist]

Armchair_Expert said:

No digits are misreperesented, altered or changed, no screws are placed, the only thing I have done is move a single space so rather than XXX XXX mine reads XXXX XX.

This is exactly what I got pulled and £100 fine for.

[Armchair_Expert]

underwhelmist said:

This is exactly what I got pulled and £100 fine for.

The risk is always there and I fully accept that. But to my mind and the reality of it, is the "offence" is no more severe or punishable than for example a bulb out, or a rear seatbelt not worn, or an empty washer bottle, any other non endorsable offence. That is not excusing the fact it is illegal, but to me there is a big difference between having a fully legible, ANPR readable and visible plate compared to one that is made to read as if digits are different to what they are, or in a wacky font, or not readable by way of being too dirty or obscured.

My car, when I choose to use my plate, is fully recognizable and identifiable. People are quick to say it makes their teeth itch or it means you are this or that, however, it is far worse to hide your identity by removing plates, or obscuring them, or making them illegible.

The same people who cast those in the bin of "absolute a$$hole" for having ever so slightly illegal plates - how do you feel when you see a high powered bike with a tiny plate on it, or one facing towards the ground meaning you can't see it? Or a car that has screws and fonts in such a way that makes reading it difficult? Identifiability and traceability is the key - that's what plates are for.

In fact using mine an example, spaced correctly it would be more inconspicuous and forgettable. Spaced as a show plate, despite not conforming, would mean once you have seen it, it is hard to forget. A model number, followed by 2 letters.

E.g if it were a Merc A180 - the plate A18 OMS is not as easy to remember as A180 MS.

Edited by Armchair_Expert on Tuesday 2nd March 19:08

[underwhelmist]

Armchair_Expert said:

But to my mind and the reality of it, is the "offence" is no more severe or punishable than for example a bulb out, or a rear seatbelt not worn, or an empty washer bottle, any other non endorsable offence. That is not excusing the fact it is illegal, but to me there is a big difference between having a fully legible, ANPR readable and visible plate compared to one that is made to read as if digits are different to what they are, or in a wacky font, or not readable by way of being too dirty or obscured.

Edited by Armchair_Expert on Tuesday 2nd March 19:08

This is the thread from when I got pulled, it evolved into quite a lengthy discussion: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

The point made by many is that you can't have a plate that's just a little bit non-compliant. It's either compliant or it's not, so there is actually no difference between your legible, ANPR readable plate and one that has had the characters monkeyed with, has a wacky font or creative use of screws. It's up to you but I wouldn't bother risking it again, it's a pain in the arse being pulled over and while £100 isn't the end of the world there are other things I'd rather do with the money.

[Armchair_Expert]

I will read that, but already, I won't disagree with you. I fully accept what your saying. As I said, the risk is there.

What I will say is I think it is unlucky to be pulled and dealt with for a minor deviation. Discretion is still a huge thing, I would rather police time is spent dealing with proper scrotes, thieves, non insured drivers, non licence holders and those who deserve to be dealt with. Not someone who is legal, insured, MOT'd and taxed e.t.c

Yes, a mis-placed plate is illegal. But - when done in mine and many other cases where it is minor, you have a person who is otherwise law abiding and won't hide or avoid prosecution.

To be morbid, and I make no apologies - what would you rather hit a family member - a car that is recognizable and who will stop at the scene vs a car that has ill intentions, may chance it or just disappear into the night.

Behind all these "plates" sits a driver and some are more morale led than others.

[Algarve]

Armchair_Expert said:

To be morbid, and I make no apologies - what would you rather hit a family member - a car that is recognizable and who will stop at the scene vs a car that has ill intentions, may chance it or just disappear into the night.

[Armchair_Expert]

Post makes no sense,

FWIW I have dealt with fatal accidents directly, and witnessed first hand the consequences.

I can assure you in those circumstances, a plate that doesn't quite abide by the law is the least of their worries. The fact it is identifiable is the point. At least, you can tell the family members that you have a plate, and a lead. Rather than, the plate was obscured, hard to read, or the font not sufficient to identify.

[321boost]

Wait a minute. So if you incorrectly space a number plate to make it read more like a word and could help someone remember it in case of a crime or accident then surely that’s a good thing? Isn’t that what you want?
Confused as to what the problem and all the bleating is about.

[Hol]

DAVE might be all the your supposed witness remembers, but the plate could be any combination of AA120 AVE, A120 AVE, or DAV 321A formats,in reality

[Jaguar steve]

Hol said:

DAVE might be all the your supposed witness remembers, but the plate could be any combination of AA120 AVE, A120 AVE, or DAV 321A formats,in reality

This ^

A witness might remember seeing D4VE X or some such nonsense on a number plate but any defence barrister worth his five grand a day would be able to point out that actually, no such number plate exists, therefore the witness must be mistaken and his client cannot be placed at the scene.

That's the central point of having a standard format in the first place. It's the best shot at recognition by Joe Public, cameras and anybody else who needs to know who any vehicle belongs to simply because it's the most familiar, and for either personal vanity or criminal intent to subvert that standard format indicates a great deal about the mindset of anybody choosing to do so.