Landlord denying family representation entry to property?
Discussion
Wildfire said:
Bert - yes. Door broken in and screws shut.
When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
Is there a will, and are you or any other relative a named executor of that will, if not then the LL needs first to liaise with a court appointed administrator, who could the tenant's family member, or the Public Trustee appointed by the court.When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
Put yourself in the place of the LL, and he lets an unknown person remove the deceased tenant's personal effects, only for a next of kin to appear on the scene, to both the demand and hold the LL accountable for the missing valuable effects.
Also there needs to be a surrender and closure of the tenancy agreement, the same may requiring deductions from possible Deposit monies, or payment of outstanding rents etc. The LL still requires an adequate Notice period from the deceased tenant.
essayer said:
Why not get the NoK to go around, collect key/repair locks then pass the key onto whoever they wish?
Not sure about the will, knowing the relative most likely there is none. But the NoK is very evident (mother) and has been in touch with the landlord but really isn’t in the state to do anything and doesn’t really know what to do.
NoK is a 70+ lady who wants us and the neighbour to assist with the removal of property.
Wings said:
Wildfire said:
Bert - yes. Door broken in and screws shut.
When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
Is there a will, and are you or any other relative a named executor of that will, if not then the LL needs first to liaise with a court appointed administrator, who could the tenant's family member, or the Public Trustee appointed by the court.When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
Put yourself in the place of the LL, and he lets an unknown person remove the deceased tenant's personal effects, only for a next of kin to appear on the scene, to both the demand and hold the LL accountable for the missing valuable effects.
Also there needs to be a surrender and closure of the tenancy agreement, the same may requiring deductions from possible Deposit monies, or payment of outstanding rents etc. The LL still requires an adequate Notice period from the deceased tenant.
Thanks all.
Spoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
Spoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
Wildfire said:
Thanks all.
Spoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
Sounds like a good approach and good police support. You might want to have someone take a camera to document the state of the property in case the landlord suddenly claims for maximum deposit, etcSpoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
monthou said:
martinbiz said:
blindspot said:
The tenant - now the estate - can have anyone they please in the house. They have exclusive possession. If LL interferes, may be committing an offence/offences.
You might want to re think thatmartinbiz said:
monthou said:
martinbiz said:
blindspot said:
The tenant - now the estate - can have anyone they please in the house. They have exclusive possession. If LL interferes, may be committing an offence/offences.
You might want to re think thatWhat possible relevance does that have?
It wasn't my assertion. It was my question.
martinbiz said:
Most of it, bar the last sentence, in the case of the OP's situaton all should be well, but your blanket assertion that a Landlord can have no say in who resides / visits / stays (delete where applicable) in a property they own is just plain wrong. We succesfully removed a tenant and their hangers on a couple of years ago for various reasons much of it related to behaviour and not in anyway connected with any failure to pay rent or CT
Yes, a landlord can evict tenants for breaches of the tenancy agreement, ASB, and a few other circs. This clearly isn't one of those situations, and you're being pointlessly argumentative. In this case, as described, the executor has every right to enter the property and the LL no right to prevent them. In preventing them, he may be committing an offence. But as previously, the LL is not the executor's secretary, and is not required to give them a key. He would be cutting off his nose to spite his face if he didn't help the executor gain access to clear out the property and give him vacant possession at some mutually convenient date.martinbiz said:
Most of it, bar the last sentence, in the case of the OP's situaton all should be well, but your blanket assertion that a Landlord can have no say in who resides / visits / stays (delete where applicable) in a property they own is just plain wrong. We succesfully removed a tenant and their hangers on a couple of years ago for various reasons much of it related to behaviour and not in anyway connected with any failure to pay rent or CT
So a completely different situation where you were able to take possession of the property, presumably following legal action to evict the tenant where a court and not the landlord decided who could reside in the property, and therefore absolutely not related to this situation in anyway? martinbiz said:
Most of it, bar the last sentence, in the case of the OP's situaton all should be well, but your blanket assertion that a Landlord can have no say in who resides / visits / stays (delete where applicable) in a property they own is just plain wrong. We succesfully removed a tenant and their hangers on a couple of years ago for various reasons much of it related to behaviour and not in anyway connected with any failure to pay rent or CT
You were able to have them removed for whatever reason, however, you had no say in who could enter the property once let out to that tenant.Well an update.
So we tried to contact the landlord, sent messages and calls and he refused to respond past the message saying he will only deal with the elderly representative.
After speaking to the police they were happy for us to get the belongings and they had no need to preserve the scene. The DS offered to send to some officers with us, but as we were travelling 250 miles up and down the country we set a day to go and get the belongings, informed the DS.
Whilst all trying to organise a funeral and in my case work. Typically both cars had problems which I also had to fix.
This week, before the funeral I unscrewed the door (as it has been screwed shut due to the police access) and we spent half a day clearing the flat. The crazy neighbour arrived and was very pleasant. We had to get a family friend (whom the neighbour doesn’t like) to help as there is a limit to what you can move by yourself.
It was a very sad and upsetting process.
Upon completing the day and being back with the NOK, she got a call from the police and I got a call from the family friend.
8 police officers had turned up to a burglary, reported by the landlord. The family friend who lives opposite was accused of theft and the police.
On the call I was questioned by quite an aggressive PC who wanted to know how I had “broken in” and used a drill and if so was authorised I should have a key. I told him that it was the police who had broken the lock and screwed the door shut and not me.
He then started to tell me that I would need to come down to the station (not knowing my name etc) to answer a charge of B&E.
After he finally stopped, I told him that I had spoken to the DS and gave the name and reference. This seemed to calm him down. My wife was going through the same thing with a WPC on another line.
Apparently the call had “just come in”, we had been there for about 5 hours, so the neighbour waited until we finished to call the landlord.
The police then said that they would not charge me but the landlord may wish to take me to court for trespass, despite him refusing to contact us and receiving a call from the DS to contact us.
Day of the funeral and my wife got a message from the landlord saying that no one will be given access to the property due to “burglary and theft” and that he wants full names, addresses, email and phone for everyone involved.
This is so he can “send a form” and seek costs for damages. We will fill the form out for return of the tenancy, but that’s all. If there is a deposit he can keep it.
As far as I am concerned we will do all contact through a solicitor as a proxy. Having researched him fully, he looks to be less than a mode citizen and by all accounts a bit of a thug and associated with some not great people. Even though he does have a company and is a “good landlord”.
We are concerned that given the area if he finds out where the NOK lives there will be a safety issue for her.
So more fun at a sad and stressful time.
So we tried to contact the landlord, sent messages and calls and he refused to respond past the message saying he will only deal with the elderly representative.
After speaking to the police they were happy for us to get the belongings and they had no need to preserve the scene. The DS offered to send to some officers with us, but as we were travelling 250 miles up and down the country we set a day to go and get the belongings, informed the DS.
Whilst all trying to organise a funeral and in my case work. Typically both cars had problems which I also had to fix.
This week, before the funeral I unscrewed the door (as it has been screwed shut due to the police access) and we spent half a day clearing the flat. The crazy neighbour arrived and was very pleasant. We had to get a family friend (whom the neighbour doesn’t like) to help as there is a limit to what you can move by yourself.
It was a very sad and upsetting process.
Upon completing the day and being back with the NOK, she got a call from the police and I got a call from the family friend.
8 police officers had turned up to a burglary, reported by the landlord. The family friend who lives opposite was accused of theft and the police.
On the call I was questioned by quite an aggressive PC who wanted to know how I had “broken in” and used a drill and if so was authorised I should have a key. I told him that it was the police who had broken the lock and screwed the door shut and not me.
He then started to tell me that I would need to come down to the station (not knowing my name etc) to answer a charge of B&E.
After he finally stopped, I told him that I had spoken to the DS and gave the name and reference. This seemed to calm him down. My wife was going through the same thing with a WPC on another line.
Apparently the call had “just come in”, we had been there for about 5 hours, so the neighbour waited until we finished to call the landlord.
The police then said that they would not charge me but the landlord may wish to take me to court for trespass, despite him refusing to contact us and receiving a call from the DS to contact us.
Day of the funeral and my wife got a message from the landlord saying that no one will be given access to the property due to “burglary and theft” and that he wants full names, addresses, email and phone for everyone involved.
This is so he can “send a form” and seek costs for damages. We will fill the form out for return of the tenancy, but that’s all. If there is a deposit he can keep it.
As far as I am concerned we will do all contact through a solicitor as a proxy. Having researched him fully, he looks to be less than a mode citizen and by all accounts a bit of a thug and associated with some not great people. Even though he does have a company and is a “good landlord”.
We are concerned that given the area if he finds out where the NOK lives there will be a safety issue for her.
So more fun at a sad and stressful time.
eldar said:
I'd suggest an attempt to recover the deposit is made. It is up to the landlord to prove it should not be returned, so they would actually have to do something to justify their decision.
Ordinarily I would agree, but we really just want shot of him as soon as possible. The longer the contact the more at risk we put the NOK. Last think we want is to get a call saying their door has been kicked in or worse.
I'd also do exactly the same again, giving the DS a heads-up beforehand, and whilst vacating make sure you evidence the overall state the place is in as he's inevitably going to try and bill the estate for a full refit citing the fact that somebody passed away in there. What a prize tit.
theboss said:
I'd also do exactly the same again, giving the DS a heads-up beforehand, and whilst vacating make sure you evidence the overall state the place is in as he's inevitably going to try and bill the estate for a full refit citing the fact that somebody passed away in there. What a prize tit.
Why a prize tit?There is still a tenancy in place, have the NOK given due Notice to bring the tenancy to an end. Has the LL received notification/proof of who is the NOK. Who will be responsible for the replacement main entrance door, loss rental payment/s, the closing inventory, damage and/or cleaning the rental premises.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff