How much hassle is MCOL in reality?

How much hassle is MCOL in reality?

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anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
I’m considering taking a company to court because of poor performance on a building contract.

I’m not going to go into details, partially because it’s still under negotiation with them, and partially because they’re really not relevant to this question.

It’s not a huge amount of money, probably in the order of £2000, but not a small amount of money either.

Looking on the citizens advice website, it suggests that even doing a money claim online can result in a very stressful process. To me, it seems relatively simple, you lay out the facts as you see them in the letter before action, submit the claim online if necessary, go to mediation if requested, and if that doesn’t work out have a day in court. If we win, great, if we don’t, no big deal.

None of this seems particularly stressful or difficult to me. I’m not intimidated by the idea of going to a County Court. I’m treating it entirely as a business transaction and not getting overly emotional about what happened.

Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.

nikaiyo2

4,670 posts

194 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.

Getting money at the end is usually the problem.

It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
Noted, thanks. Companies House data suggests they have a good chunk of cash on hand and lots of assets - but appreciate they can be hard to actually prise away from a company.

Louis Balfour

26,271 posts

221 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Noted, thanks. Companies House data suggests they have a good chunk of cash on hand and lots of assets - but appreciate they can be hard to actually prise away from a company.
If they have assets, getting a professional to go after them may get your money back and you may not need to go through the court process.


akirk

5,376 posts

113 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
A lot depends on the other person / organisation...

If they are someone who is just forgetting to pay / being distracted by something else / a little bit chaotic / etc. and they would feel that they have something to lose by having a judgement against them, then you have a chance - it may be enough to trigger payment.

If they are deliberately playing games / choosing not to pay / fudging the situation / etc. then it may be trickier, and you will probably find it hard to get money out of them... even if you 'win'

if there is any form of doubt in the situation / if there is a lack of clarity / if you don't have agreements in writing / then you may find it tricky...

the easiest we have found is where we have an email from a client agreeing to pay an invoice / agreeing the work - i.e. a paper trail

so, yes, the process is very simple, but the better your 'evidence' the more chance of success and the better the character of the person (or the more they have to lose) the better the chance of getting payment

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
Useful stuff, thanks.

They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.

They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.

I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.

I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.

IJWS15

1,830 posts

84 months

Friday 30th July 2021
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Check companies house before you commit, what seems like quite a large business may actually have no assets, especially in the construction industry where ABC construction may hire its plant from ABC plant hire, rent it's offices and yards from ABC property and get its staff from ABC . . . . . etc.

The Beta lets you get information foc.

48k

12,978 posts

147 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.

Getting money at the end is usually the problem.

It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
Second this.

I went through MCOL a year ago to recover money from a tenant who trashed a property. Everything done online, dead easy, even during Covid lockdown. Uncontested claim, won the judgement.

Chance of actually getting the money owed out of them? Close to, if not, zero.

S6PNJ

5,157 posts

280 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
48k said:
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.

Getting money at the end is usually the problem.

It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
Second this.

I went through MCOL a year ago to recover money from a tenant who trashed a property. Everything done online, dead easy, even during Covid lockdown. Uncontested claim, won the judgement.

Chance of actually getting the money owed out of them? Close to, if not, zero.
Had similar in years gone by - raise the CCJ to the next court up the chain (District Court? - can't remember) - purely an administrative process, then get bailiffs to visit and get money back. Worked for me!!

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Friday 30th July 2021
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.
It may be simple, or you may be starting a war of attrition, depending on how much the other party wants to fight or how dishonest they are.

Louis Balfour

26,271 posts

221 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
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Simpo Two said:
charltjr said:
Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.
It may be simple, or you may be starting a war of attrition, depending on how much the other party wants to fight or how dishonest they are.
I have pursued one person via MCOL. It ended up in court and I got full settlement on the day, the chap wrote a cheque there and then (it didn't bounce). It was FAIRLY straightforward, although the judge said that one part (a narrative) was not completed correctly.

I have also been sued via the system several times. I lost once, but the judge knew that the claimant was being an arse, despite being technically correct, so he engineered the decision such that the claimant didn't get paid in full. I have generally been impressed with how quickly judges get to the nub of the issue and reach just conclusions.


rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
quotequote all
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.

Getting money at the end is usually the problem.

It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
I have a CCJ against an car parts supplier that cost me an additional £200 on top of the £1000 they owe me. I still don’t have the money. Utter waste of time. If the company is not reputable and doesn’t give a st, there is nothing you can do.

Countdown

39,688 posts

195 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
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rxe said:
I have a CCJ against an car parts supplier that cost me an additional £200 on top of the £1000 they owe me. I still don’t have the money. Utter waste of time. If the company is not reputable and doesn’t give a st, there is nothing you can do.
Can you not instruct bailiffs?

Plymo

1,149 posts

88 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
quotequote all
I've used it, it really is not that hard and is almost completely online.
A few tips though-
- Avoid legalese, it's not necessary and just risks confusing the issue.
- Make a timeline of events and documents.
- Clearly state what the issue is, and how much is owed - and how you justified that figure.
- Follow the processes and timings to the letter. Use recorded delivery (signed for is not necessary, but request a tracking number for proof of delivery from the post office counter)
- Make sure the claim is against the right company! NOT an individual employee/director (unless a sole trader).
- If their registered office address is different to their usual trading address, send copies of documents to that address too so they can't complain about not being aware of it.

If your case has some merit, and they don't turn up then you will win by default - but the court bit is very unintimidating and in my experience the judge was very fair (He really didn't like the other side trying to get off on a technicality by pointing out a minor procedural error on my side, while simultaneously failing to respond to most of the court paperwork themselves).

Don't bother with debt collectors, if they don't pay up go straight to Bailiffs (if they have physical assets).
There are other options - there's something you can do with their bank account, but you need their account details and you need to know a date when there will actually be money in it!
You will likely already have their account details so that will help.


rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Can you not instruct bailiffs?
Yes, I could, but that costs even more money with still almost zero guarantee of recovery. This was a few years ago, maybe they do “no collect no fee” these days…

Countdown

39,688 posts

195 months

Saturday 31st July 2021
quotequote all
rxe said:
Yes, I could, but that costs even more money with still almost zero guarantee of recovery. This was a few years ago, maybe they do “no collect no fee” these days…
It depends on how pee'd off you are at the debtor and how realisable the debts are. Given how much you're owed I'd be inclined to use HCEOs

https://www.courtenforcementservices.co.uk/service...

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 13th August 2021
quotequote all
Quick update.....

The supplier continued to play hardball and deny any responsibility, they refused to go through any form of arbitration or mediation.

We're now getting the defects remedied and once the full costs are known will send a letter before action.

Fun times!

Canon_Fodder

1,770 posts

62 months

Friday 13th August 2021
quotequote all
That's the spirit OP! Thanks for the update, always so interesting to see how these things turn out.

Best wishes to you, I have a sense that you will be be successful and they will fold on the steps

IJWS15

1,830 posts

84 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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rxe said:
Yes, I could, but that costs even more money with still almost zero guarantee of recovery. This was a few years ago, maybe they do “no collect no fee” these days…
This is different to a claim against an individual or a builder where the assets may not be there, it is a car parts supplier so they will have stock the bailiffs can seize - in this case 99% certain the bailiffs will get the money as they are likely to seize £5-10k worth of stock to cover a £1k debt as the stock won't reach face value at auction. The parts supplier would really feel that so will pay them off.

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Useful stuff, thanks.

They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.

They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.

I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.

I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.
100% this. They won't want a CCJ and a MCOL is very simple.