How much hassle is MCOL in reality?
Discussion
I’m considering taking a company to court because of poor performance on a building contract.
I’m not going to go into details, partially because it’s still under negotiation with them, and partially because they’re really not relevant to this question.
It’s not a huge amount of money, probably in the order of £2000, but not a small amount of money either.
Looking on the citizens advice website, it suggests that even doing a money claim online can result in a very stressful process. To me, it seems relatively simple, you lay out the facts as you see them in the letter before action, submit the claim online if necessary, go to mediation if requested, and if that doesn’t work out have a day in court. If we win, great, if we don’t, no big deal.
None of this seems particularly stressful or difficult to me. I’m not intimidated by the idea of going to a County Court. I’m treating it entirely as a business transaction and not getting overly emotional about what happened.
Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.
I’m not going to go into details, partially because it’s still under negotiation with them, and partially because they’re really not relevant to this question.
It’s not a huge amount of money, probably in the order of £2000, but not a small amount of money either.
Looking on the citizens advice website, it suggests that even doing a money claim online can result in a very stressful process. To me, it seems relatively simple, you lay out the facts as you see them in the letter before action, submit the claim online if necessary, go to mediation if requested, and if that doesn’t work out have a day in court. If we win, great, if we don’t, no big deal.
None of this seems particularly stressful or difficult to me. I’m not intimidated by the idea of going to a County Court. I’m treating it entirely as a business transaction and not getting overly emotional about what happened.
Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.
charltjr said:
Noted, thanks. Companies House data suggests they have a good chunk of cash on hand and lots of assets - but appreciate they can be hard to actually prise away from a company.
If they have assets, getting a professional to go after them may get your money back and you may not need to go through the court process.A lot depends on the other person / organisation...
If they are someone who is just forgetting to pay / being distracted by something else / a little bit chaotic / etc. and they would feel that they have something to lose by having a judgement against them, then you have a chance - it may be enough to trigger payment.
If they are deliberately playing games / choosing not to pay / fudging the situation / etc. then it may be trickier, and you will probably find it hard to get money out of them... even if you 'win'
if there is any form of doubt in the situation / if there is a lack of clarity / if you don't have agreements in writing / then you may find it tricky...
the easiest we have found is where we have an email from a client agreeing to pay an invoice / agreeing the work - i.e. a paper trail
so, yes, the process is very simple, but the better your 'evidence' the more chance of success and the better the character of the person (or the more they have to lose) the better the chance of getting payment
If they are someone who is just forgetting to pay / being distracted by something else / a little bit chaotic / etc. and they would feel that they have something to lose by having a judgement against them, then you have a chance - it may be enough to trigger payment.
If they are deliberately playing games / choosing not to pay / fudging the situation / etc. then it may be trickier, and you will probably find it hard to get money out of them... even if you 'win'
if there is any form of doubt in the situation / if there is a lack of clarity / if you don't have agreements in writing / then you may find it tricky...
the easiest we have found is where we have an email from a client agreeing to pay an invoice / agreeing the work - i.e. a paper trail
so, yes, the process is very simple, but the better your 'evidence' the more chance of success and the better the character of the person (or the more they have to lose) the better the chance of getting payment
Useful stuff, thanks.
They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.
They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.
I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.
I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.
They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.
They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.
I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.
I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.
Check companies house before you commit, what seems like quite a large business may actually have no assets, especially in the construction industry where ABC construction may hire its plant from ABC plant hire, rent it's offices and yards from ABC property and get its staff from ABC . . . . . etc.
The Beta lets you get information foc.
The Beta lets you get information foc.
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.
Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
Second this.Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
I went through MCOL a year ago to recover money from a tenant who trashed a property. Everything done online, dead easy, even during Covid lockdown. Uncontested claim, won the judgement.
Chance of actually getting the money owed out of them? Close to, if not, zero.
48k said:
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.
Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
Second this.Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
I went through MCOL a year ago to recover money from a tenant who trashed a property. Everything done online, dead easy, even during Covid lockdown. Uncontested claim, won the judgement.
Chance of actually getting the money owed out of them? Close to, if not, zero.
Simpo Two said:
charltjr said:
Am I missing something? It would be great to get feedback from someone who has actually been through the process.
It may be simple, or you may be starting a war of attrition, depending on how much the other party wants to fight or how dishonest they are.I have also been sued via the system several times. I lost once, but the judge knew that the claimant was being an arse, despite being technically correct, so he engineered the decision such that the claimant didn't get paid in full. I have generally been impressed with how quickly judges get to the nub of the issue and reach just conclusions.
nikaiyo2 said:
The actual process is really simple, winning is often very simple.
Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
I have a CCJ against an car parts supplier that cost me an additional £200 on top of the £1000 they owe me. I still don’t have the money. Utter waste of time. If the company is not reputable and doesn’t give a st, there is nothing you can do. Getting money at the end is usually the problem.
It can be something of a Pyrrhic victory to win a CCJ against a company with no assets or cash or an individual who owns nothing at all.
I've used it, it really is not that hard and is almost completely online.
A few tips though-
- Avoid legalese, it's not necessary and just risks confusing the issue.
- Make a timeline of events and documents.
- Clearly state what the issue is, and how much is owed - and how you justified that figure.
- Follow the processes and timings to the letter. Use recorded delivery (signed for is not necessary, but request a tracking number for proof of delivery from the post office counter)
- Make sure the claim is against the right company! NOT an individual employee/director (unless a sole trader).
- If their registered office address is different to their usual trading address, send copies of documents to that address too so they can't complain about not being aware of it.
If your case has some merit, and they don't turn up then you will win by default - but the court bit is very unintimidating and in my experience the judge was very fair (He really didn't like the other side trying to get off on a technicality by pointing out a minor procedural error on my side, while simultaneously failing to respond to most of the court paperwork themselves).
Don't bother with debt collectors, if they don't pay up go straight to Bailiffs (if they have physical assets).
There are other options - there's something you can do with their bank account, but you need their account details and you need to know a date when there will actually be money in it!
You will likely already have their account details so that will help.
A few tips though-
- Avoid legalese, it's not necessary and just risks confusing the issue.
- Make a timeline of events and documents.
- Clearly state what the issue is, and how much is owed - and how you justified that figure.
- Follow the processes and timings to the letter. Use recorded delivery (signed for is not necessary, but request a tracking number for proof of delivery from the post office counter)
- Make sure the claim is against the right company! NOT an individual employee/director (unless a sole trader).
- If their registered office address is different to their usual trading address, send copies of documents to that address too so they can't complain about not being aware of it.
If your case has some merit, and they don't turn up then you will win by default - but the court bit is very unintimidating and in my experience the judge was very fair (He really didn't like the other side trying to get off on a technicality by pointing out a minor procedural error on my side, while simultaneously failing to respond to most of the court paperwork themselves).
Don't bother with debt collectors, if they don't pay up go straight to Bailiffs (if they have physical assets).
There are other options - there's something you can do with their bank account, but you need their account details and you need to know a date when there will actually be money in it!
You will likely already have their account details so that will help.
rxe said:
Yes, I could, but that costs even more money with still almost zero guarantee of recovery. This was a few years ago, maybe they do “no collect no fee” these days…
It depends on how pee'd off you are at the debtor and how realisable the debts are. Given how much you're owed I'd be inclined to use HCEOshttps://www.courtenforcementservices.co.uk/service...
rxe said:
Yes, I could, but that costs even more money with still almost zero guarantee of recovery. This was a few years ago, maybe they do “no collect no fee” these days…
This is different to a claim against an individual or a builder where the assets may not be there, it is a car parts supplier so they will have stock the bailiffs can seize - in this case 99% certain the bailiffs will get the money as they are likely to seize £5-10k worth of stock to cover a £1k debt as the stock won't reach face value at auction. The parts supplier would really feel that so will pay them off.charltjr said:
Useful stuff, thanks.
They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.
They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.
I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.
I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.
100% this. They won't want a CCJ and a MCOL is very simple.They are a fairly large business who I suspect are unlikely to want an unsatisfied CCJ against them if it came down to it.
They are also too large for phoenixing the business to make any sense over a claim of this scale, even assuming I'm successful.
I'm still hoping they see sense and negotiate an outcome, but they have been flatly denying any responsibility from the start.
I'll update with non-name-and-shame details once this has played out, one way or the other.
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