Fuming Range Rover owner!
Discussion
havoc said:
...and that boils down to the difference in consumers
- some people still think that cars going wrong is normal* and they want all the toys and leather and the 'premium' (sic) badge.
- some people are happy to work on a car themselves (although these people occupy the 2nd hand market not 'new'), so aren't AS fussed about outright reliability
- some people want their car to work, every time, all the time...so they tend to buy Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Mazda (& arguably the Koreans now too)
- etc. etc.
* Similar principle to some people still buying (e.g.) Hotpoint or Candy white goods, despite the fact that they'll probably struggle to last 3 years, except with the likes of RR people are paying for the image and the content.
As a sample of 1 person times 3 LR cars mine have “worked all the time, every time”.- some people still think that cars going wrong is normal* and they want all the toys and leather and the 'premium' (sic) badge.
- some people are happy to work on a car themselves (although these people occupy the 2nd hand market not 'new'), so aren't AS fussed about outright reliability
- some people want their car to work, every time, all the time...so they tend to buy Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Mazda (& arguably the Koreans now too)
- etc. etc.
* Similar principle to some people still buying (e.g.) Hotpoint or Candy white goods, despite the fact that they'll probably struggle to last 3 years, except with the likes of RR people are paying for the image and the content.
Tomanybikes said:
Superflow said:
I’m inclined to believe the reliability data which year on year proves their unreliable and also an ex employee negative experiences than anybody else.
I mean how much proof do people need to cease the denial!.
Yes the ex employee seems very bitter towards LR. I mean how much proof do people need to cease the denial!.
Would you stay with a company that produced crap?
Tomanybikes said:
Yes the ex employee seems very bitter towards LR.
Left them years ago, and have done very well for myself since. The only bitterness is that they're one of the biggest local employers and could/should be doing much better than they are, if only they had taken one of a dozen opportunities to have a good hard look at themselves.
havoc said:
Tomanybikes said:
Yes the ex employee seems very bitter towards LR.
Left them years ago, and have done very well for myself since. The only bitterness is that they're one of the biggest local employers and could/should be doing much better than they are, if only they had taken one of a dozen opportunities to have a good hard look at themselves.
havoc said:
Left them years ago, and have done very well for myself since.
The only bitterness is that they're one of the biggest local employers and could/should be doing much better than they are, if only they had taken one of a dozen opportunities to have a good hard look at themselves.
That's roughly what a friend says who works there (management)The only bitterness is that they're one of the biggest local employers and could/should be doing much better than they are, if only they had taken one of a dozen opportunities to have a good hard look at themselves.
Saweep said:
It's clearly a long term cultural issue.
Ford couldn't fix it, BMW couldn't fix it and Tata won't be able to either.
It's pervasive in Birmingham car making going back to Rover and British Leyland.
It's also a financial issue. LR are probably not authorising warranty payments to investigate works on customers cars, otherwise they would be in an even more huge financial hole. There's a whole sFord couldn't fix it, BMW couldn't fix it and Tata won't be able to either.
It's pervasive in Birmingham car making going back to Rover and British Leyland.
tty service culture in refusing to fix faults and telling the customer nothing can be done.Electro1980 said:
And they get away with it because people will defend the company through some bizarre sense of loyalty.
I'm actually convinced it is purely because people believe the status they feel they get from driving the products cannot be matched at a similar price point.Want to feel like the queen or a rapper in a full size? What else at 80k can do that? Nothing. A Bentley/Rolls SUV is twice the price. Nobody with popular culture status drives saloons any more.
Consequently they make excuses for the rubbish quality.
Years ago when in Quality Management I spoke to a car salesman.
He was with a ford dealer but moved to a Toyota dealer.
His comment was....
When I sold a Ford it was likely to see it again for fault problems in addition to servicing.
Now, with Toyota, I only see the car when in for service or as a trade in on a new car.
The basic is that quality ( leading to reliability) is designed into a product. Bean counters stick an oar in for cost cutting that looks good in the short term but undermines a desirable long term culture for excellence, sustainability, improvement and profit.
At one time I worked for a BL subsidiary. Utter rubbish attitudes, a shout to get your way mentality, short cuts encouraged....I left after 18 months after introducing sensible measures that were proving to be positive. The “Old Guard” at all levels couldn’t see the benefits and were against change.
“We’ve always done it like that so f##k off”. I did.
He was with a ford dealer but moved to a Toyota dealer.
His comment was....
When I sold a Ford it was likely to see it again for fault problems in addition to servicing.
Now, with Toyota, I only see the car when in for service or as a trade in on a new car.
The basic is that quality ( leading to reliability) is designed into a product. Bean counters stick an oar in for cost cutting that looks good in the short term but undermines a desirable long term culture for excellence, sustainability, improvement and profit.
At one time I worked for a BL subsidiary. Utter rubbish attitudes, a shout to get your way mentality, short cuts encouraged....I left after 18 months after introducing sensible measures that were proving to be positive. The “Old Guard” at all levels couldn’t see the benefits and were against change.
“We’ve always done it like that so f##k off”. I did.
sospan said:
Years ago when in Quality Management I spoke to a car salesman.
He was with a ford dealer but moved to a Toyota dealer.
His comment was....
When I sold a Ford it was likely to see it again for fault problems in addition to servicing.
Now, with Toyota, I only see the car when in for service or as a trade in on a new car.
The basic is that quality ( leading to reliability) is designed into a product. Bean counters stick an oar in for cost cutting that looks good in the short term but undermines a desirable long term culture for excellence, sustainability, improvement and profit.
At one time I worked for a BL subsidiary. Utter rubbish attitudes, a shout to get your way mentality, short cuts encouraged....I left after 18 months after introducing sensible measures that were proving to be positive. The “Old Guard” at all levels couldn’t see the benefits and were against change.
“We’ve always done it like that so f##k off”. I did.
Japanese manufacturers pioneered much better design and not just the car. He was with a ford dealer but moved to a Toyota dealer.
His comment was....
When I sold a Ford it was likely to see it again for fault problems in addition to servicing.
Now, with Toyota, I only see the car when in for service or as a trade in on a new car.
The basic is that quality ( leading to reliability) is designed into a product. Bean counters stick an oar in for cost cutting that looks good in the short term but undermines a desirable long term culture for excellence, sustainability, improvement and profit.
At one time I worked for a BL subsidiary. Utter rubbish attitudes, a shout to get your way mentality, short cuts encouraged....I left after 18 months after introducing sensible measures that were proving to be positive. The “Old Guard” at all levels couldn’t see the benefits and were against change.
“We’ve always done it like that so f##k off”. I did.
Workers councils instead of unions. Lots of six sigma to reduce defects. Employees empowered to stop the line, etc
I had one. Was fine other than an infotainment system that reset itself.
This took them 2 years to solve.
At about 18 months they determined it was a faulty switch.
Instead of replacing said switch ( £5?) they were required by land rover to fix it by filling the switch with silicone.
Low and behold it did not work. They still insisted it was the switch. Replace it then. No. Land rover won’t let us.
In the end the replaced it and drum roll - the problem went away. The dealer was total crap and the car spent weeks and weeks with them for which I got a courtesy car.
Did I like the car? Yes. Would I buy another ? Probably not.
I now have a Cayenne which is a better drive and more fun.
This took them 2 years to solve.
At about 18 months they determined it was a faulty switch.
Instead of replacing said switch ( £5?) they were required by land rover to fix it by filling the switch with silicone.
Low and behold it did not work. They still insisted it was the switch. Replace it then. No. Land rover won’t let us.
In the end the replaced it and drum roll - the problem went away. The dealer was total crap and the car spent weeks and weeks with them for which I got a courtesy car.
Did I like the car? Yes. Would I buy another ? Probably not.
I now have a Cayenne which is a better drive and more fun.
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