Alternatives To a Prenup?

Author
Discussion

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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The Mad Monk said:
It seems to be don't get married on imposed terms.
Makes sense from her perspective...

I think most people, male or female, faced with a prenup would question the other person's commitment.

CrgT16

1,924 posts

107 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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This type of agreements are only more common because of what happen on a divorce.

If a divorce was a fair deal for all parties involved than these prenups would not really be common. The thing is, most times, the settlement is not really fair to the man, particularly if children are involved. Thus, prenups are required or considered in some situations.

This talk about giving it everything and a prenup is offensive....I would say, so why do you need a signed piece of paper to commit/show your love to someone. I would say a marriage is not needed either then... Are you more committed if you sign a piece of paper? A marriage certificate is only a commitment for material purposes. If you are emotionally committed no piece of paper is needed, imo. swings and roundabouts. I got married, knew what I was doing, my wife put a large deposits on our house due to a house sale, wanted me to sign a doc stating she should get that first if we sell out house. I thought it wasn;t needed so I can understand the slight offence but it was her money, I was happy to give her piece of mind should in the future we split up.

Everyone will be fair until the divorce lawyers start advising...

Vasco

16,475 posts

104 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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As has been touched upon:-

Whatever they say, the 'other' party is always going to feel a bit slighted if they have to sign a Prenup

Nowadays, for men, there is little point in marriage (albeit it's probably more symbolic for women).

Edited by Vasco on Sunday 15th May 09:47

NGee

2,377 posts

163 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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The Mad Monk said:
I thank that if "cultural reasons" have got into decision making this early in your marriage - and it obviously isn't your culture that is the sticking point - then I would be going back to the dating agency and starting again.
Exactly this, I think 'cultural reasons' is a far bigger problem that a pre-nup.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life being dictated to by the outlaws?
Because if you can't even discuss it with your future wife, then this is exactly what will happen.

mattyprice4004

1,327 posts

173 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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Porsche guy said:
What he said..smile
And another vote here!

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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I can understand mentioning pre-nups, declaration of trust or other instruments can be upsetting for partners, because you’re tacitly saying you think there is a chance the marriage will fail. Pragmatism is anathema to romance, and your partner will likely be emotionally “all in” and will be thinking you aren’t.

Unfortunately it’s likely to be rare that both parties to a marriage enter into it with equal assets or money making opportunities, so the need for this sort of thing is pretty significant I’d say.

It’s kinda weird I guess but we insure order aspects of our lives that would otherwise be ruinous in the event of a disaster without a second thought, but when it comes to marriage we’re supposed to just close your eyes and ignore all of the statistics and bias in asset split etc.

It was said best earlier on - if the OP is being told he “doesn’t need” a pre-nup, that it is unnecessary, why does his partner “need” to be married?

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
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A cursory search of Mumsnet on the subject returns threads where the woman is advised to stall signing it, or sign it as late in the day as possible and/or deliberately not getting legal advice so as to say that it was done under duress (to weaken or invalidate it I guess), which speaks volumes I think.

That being said, if two people have been together for a long time and have had children then in practical terms you have to consider what she has sacrificed in order to facilitate his career etc. A pre-nup in that situation is callous, I think.

TheGreatDane

Original Poster:

351 posts

69 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Very clear consensus here, thanks everyone for their input.

I wish it were as simple as having a discussion but her sister had a prenup, fell apart guy left her up s**** creek after amassing huge amounts of debt in her name. She will never come around to the idea of it due to that.

As mentioned culture plays a big part in both of our lives (hers more than mine) so not getting married isn't an option.

I'll have to have a real think, not to sound soppy but I do love her so it is a tough one.


Jonny Wishbone

906 posts

45 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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OP, would you sign a pre-nup?

I wouldn't in a month of Mondays and, boot on the other foot, I bet most of those advocating for one wouldn't either.

On that basis, I wouldn't have asked the missus to.

TheGreatDane

Original Poster:

351 posts

69 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Honest answer is I wouldn't, and as many have said on here the fact I have to ask this question raises the very valid question of should I be marrying her.

Thinking hat needed.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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TheGreatDane said:
Very clear consensus here, thanks everyone for their input.

I wish it were as simple as having a discussion but her sister had a prenup, fell apart guy left her up s**** creek after amassing huge amounts of debt in her name. She will never come around to the idea of it due to that.

As mentioned culture plays a big part in both of our lives (hers more than mine) so not getting married isn't an option.

I'll have to have a real think, not to sound soppy but I do love her so it is a tough one.
Perhaps you can work on something that relates to the capital your parents contributed - e.g. that it is a loan with no expected repayment so long as you continue to own and live in the house, i.e. that if you did get divorced and the house was inevitably sold - they'd get their money back and it would be separate from the assets being divided.

I guess, as said above, that the mortgage company would have something to say about a charge being on the house, though.

porterpainter

647 posts

36 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Not read it all, but why no remortgage the house to the current value then offshore the equity or give it back to your parents?

targarama

14,635 posts

282 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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deckster said:
But beyond that, I'm rather old-fashioned and do have to agree with others that marriage is sort of a big deal, till death do us parts, what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours kind of thing. If you don't trust your wife-to-be enough to not run off with half the house then you probably shouldn't be getting married.
Very easy to say if you've not been divorced and experienced this already, I wasn't expecting it the first time either, a pre-nup was suggested to me at the time, I was foolish. I would not get married again without something along these lines. Protecting existing assets, especially if an inheritance is involved. It does not mean leaving the new partner with nothing if you split in future, still divide what is earned/gained during marriage.

Edited by targarama on Monday 16th May 12:39

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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There are a lot of blokes on PH who are very angry and bitter about how their marriages ended. Take their experiences as data points, but don't take them as gospel.

Vasco

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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otolith said:
There are a lot of blokes on PH who are very angry and bitter about how their marriages ended. Take their experiences as data points, but don't take them as gospel.
That's probably very true, but it's still irrelevant when the vast majority of ALL blokes would struggle to think of any real benefit of getting married. Everything looks rather negative and unnecessary nowadays. Just plenty of downsides - usually even more as the years tick by.

deckster

9,630 posts

254 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Vasco said:
otolith said:
There are a lot of blokes on PH who are very angry and bitter about how their marriages ended. Take their experiences as data points, but don't take them as gospel.
That's probably very true, but it's still irrelevant when the vast majority of ALL blokes would struggle to think of any real benefit of getting married. Everything looks rather negative and unnecessary nowadays. Just plenty of downsides - usually even more as the years tick by.
Not everything is a transaction. There is a lot to be said for publicly, privately, and internally making a commitment to somebody else.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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otolith said:
There are a lot of blokes on PH who are very angry and bitter about how their marriages ended. Take their experiences as data points, but don't take them as gospel.
I'd wonder why they are angry and bitter. I doubt it's primarily because they're no longer with their partner (more likely to be saddened by that) moreover the circumstances of the split.

Jonny Wishbone

906 posts

45 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Durzel said:
I'd wonder why they are angry and bitter. I doubt it's primarily because they're no longer with their partner (more likely to be saddened by that) moreover the circumstances of the split.
I think Otolith's point stands on the basis of the "three sides to every story" idiom. On here, it's always the moneygrabbing Harpy's fault. Also it's in the nature of threads like these that happily married blokes won't chip in to recount their positive experiences. So all a thread like this can do is heighten OP's pre-existing insecurity.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
Vasco said:
That's probably very true, but it's still irrelevant when the vast majority of ALL blokes would struggle to think of any real benefit of getting married. Everything looks rather negative and unnecessary nowadays. Just plenty of downsides - usually even more as the years tick by.
I really enjoyed being married. I suppose that must count as a benefit.

Probably not going to remarry (I'm a widower) - my partner is certainly wary of it and has similar feelings to some here of having had the stty end of the stick in her divorce, but then we're in our late forties and it seems less important.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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Jonny Wishbone said:
Durzel said:
I'd wonder why they are angry and bitter. I doubt it's primarily because they're no longer with their partner (more likely to be saddened by that) moreover the circumstances of the split.
I think Otolith's point stands on the basis of the "three sides to every story" idiom. On here, it's always the moneygrabbing Harpy's fault. Also it's in the nature of threads like these that happily married blokes won't chip in to recount their positive experiences. So all a thread like this can do is heighten OP's pre-existing insecurity.
Yup, that's a fair point. That's really a defect of any forum really, we only ever hear one perspective on anything. There's certainly deadbeat Dads and people who try and hide assets and/or pay the bare minimum or nothing at all towards their ex-partners & children, etc.

I also personally think that there is some measure of restitution due to a partner (usually a woman) ending up staying home and doing childcare, facilitating the husband being able to build a career. It certainly isn't a black and white thing.

In the OP's circumstances I don't think it's unreasonable that he would want to ringfence his parent's contribution to his (at the time) house, as it pre-dates the marriage. If he didn't take steps to do this then it seems like he would be in a disadvantageous position simply because he signed a marriage certificate, which seems unfair.