Alternatives To a Prenup?
Discussion
kiethton said:
Marriage trumps this no?
My view would to be to write a letter detailing the % share your parents contributed and that the letter states in the event of sale they have a second charge to the mortgage co. If signed and lodged with the solicitor pre marriage (ideally on purchase) you won't be accused of anything either.
In the event of a split the mortgage co gets repaid, your parents get repaid (what happens after that is irrelevant) and whatever is left is split by the divorce courts.
No reason not to have tenants in common. My wife and I do this, we have different shares of ownership in our houses. Solicitor recommended it.My view would to be to write a letter detailing the % share your parents contributed and that the letter states in the event of sale they have a second charge to the mortgage co. If signed and lodged with the solicitor pre marriage (ideally on purchase) you won't be accused of anything either.
In the event of a split the mortgage co gets repaid, your parents get repaid (what happens after that is irrelevant) and whatever is left is split by the divorce courts.
I'm sorry I've said this before and it has been said here already, what are the traditional marriage vows?
- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
GIYess said:
I'm sorry I've said this before and it has been said here already, what are the traditional marriage vows?
- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
So it was completely irrelevant to you then.- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
Surely you can see how two people, one of which with significant assets and the other with none, entering a contractual relationship where - if it fails - the starting point is 50/50 split, is unappetising?
I know it's not romantic, but people wouldn't make these sorts of bets with their assets under other circumstances so it's a bit unfair imo to expect them to just freely write them off (potentially) in the event of divorce, and to enquire about or seek out some form of protection, if available.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 16th May 15:38
Durzel said:
GIYess said:
I'm sorry I've said this before and it has been said here already, what are the traditional marriage vows?
- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
So it was completely irrelevant to you then.- in sickness/health/richer/poorer, till death us do part etc.
Why bother saying it if you don't mean it. I know it's old fashioned and everything but that is kind of the whole basis of marriage. I something happens you are willing to bear the brunt of it.
If my wife had asked me to sign a prenup (neither of us had a penny to our name anyway) I'd not be too pleased!
I put all the money into our assets/life as she looks after the children. If she ran off with someone else, I would be happy to half everything because she by being my wife has gained as much right to everything we own/ everything I earn as me.
Divorce stories or not, that is the pillar of marriage.
Sorry do you detect I have a Apis I'm my beret?
Surely you can see how two people, one of which with significant assets and the other with none, entering a contractual relationship where - if it fails - the starting point is 50/50 split is unappetising?
I know it's not romantic, but people wouldn't make these sorts of bets with their assets under other circumstances so it's a bit unfair imo to expect them to just freely write them off (potentially) in the event of divorce.
So often I have seen people saying / implying that as long as you both focus on what you will gain from it / both protect yourselves / etc. then it will be an equal marriage - but that is like two trees standing individually and competing with each other for natural resources
For me, marriage is all about the other person - my job in marriage is to build up and enable my wife. Her's is to do the same with me - such that we both build the other to being the best person possible - doing this entwines two lives and builds one combined and stronger outcome - it is those same two trees supporting and enabling each other symbiotically helping each other to grow...
As referenced above - it means that it is the same approach whether in good times or bad, in sickness or in health. If one is struggling, the other can support them, if both are doing well then they share each others' outcome...
I could see no scenario where a prenup would be relevant in our marriage, yes it is possible for any marriage to fall to pieces, but if that were to happen then I would need to blame myself and take responsibility for it as I would not have done what I should have done to avoid that outcome. Prenups seem to be all about not accepting responsibility...
I am with GIYess - there is much more to marriage than this and if a prenup is 'needed' then it must surely question every aspect of what is being planned...
I work for a large financial services company, and am paraphrasing some of our guidance here...
Pre-nuptial agreements are not currently legally binding in England or Wales. However, a Judge is likely to consider and uphold a pre-nup as long as certain safeguards have been met, which are there to protect both parties and ensure that the pre-nup agreement can be considered fair and reasonable. If the agreement is too one-sided, then it can be unlikely to stand up in court.
Recent cases we see show that an increasing number of pre-nup agreements are being upheld. To give a pre-nup agreement the best chance of being upheld, the following safeguards should be met:
- Both individuals need to have received independent legal advice about the agreement at the outset. This ensures both parties have a fair deal
- Full and frank financial disclosure of both parties’ assets must have been made prior to the agreement, with no assets hidden
- The agreement must not be entered into less than 21 days before the marriage
- Neither party must have been under pressure or duress to sign the agreement against their will
- There must have been no significant change which would make the agreement inappropriate (for example, the birth of children)
- The agreement must be fair and realistic. If the division of assets between a couple is weighted too heavily the favour of one party, it may be judged to be unfair by the courts and thrown out, meaning that you would go through the divorce without the protection of the pre-nuptial agreement.
- Pre-nuptial agreements should be reviewed and amended periodically during the course of the marriage, particularly when any children are born.
If the above safeguards are not met, then the pre-nuptial agreement is unlikely to be upheld by the courts. When entering into a pre-nuptial agreement, each party who is due to get married must carefully consider future eventualities that could impact on the fairness of an agreement – for instance, one partner giving up their career to bring up children, the marriage lasting many years, or any future joint business ventures entered into.
Pre-nuptial agreements are not currently legally binding in England or Wales. However, a Judge is likely to consider and uphold a pre-nup as long as certain safeguards have been met, which are there to protect both parties and ensure that the pre-nup agreement can be considered fair and reasonable. If the agreement is too one-sided, then it can be unlikely to stand up in court.
Recent cases we see show that an increasing number of pre-nup agreements are being upheld. To give a pre-nup agreement the best chance of being upheld, the following safeguards should be met:
- Both individuals need to have received independent legal advice about the agreement at the outset. This ensures both parties have a fair deal
- Full and frank financial disclosure of both parties’ assets must have been made prior to the agreement, with no assets hidden
- The agreement must not be entered into less than 21 days before the marriage
- Neither party must have been under pressure or duress to sign the agreement against their will
- There must have been no significant change which would make the agreement inappropriate (for example, the birth of children)
- The agreement must be fair and realistic. If the division of assets between a couple is weighted too heavily the favour of one party, it may be judged to be unfair by the courts and thrown out, meaning that you would go through the divorce without the protection of the pre-nuptial agreement.
- Pre-nuptial agreements should be reviewed and amended periodically during the course of the marriage, particularly when any children are born.
If the above safeguards are not met, then the pre-nuptial agreement is unlikely to be upheld by the courts. When entering into a pre-nuptial agreement, each party who is due to get married must carefully consider future eventualities that could impact on the fairness of an agreement – for instance, one partner giving up their career to bring up children, the marriage lasting many years, or any future joint business ventures entered into.
TheGreatDane said:
Very clear consensus here, thanks everyone for their input.
I wish it were as simple as having a discussion but her sister had a prenup, fell apart guy left her up s**** creek after amassing huge amounts of debt in her name. She will never come around to the idea of it due to that.
As mentioned culture plays a big part in both of our lives (hers more than mine) so not getting married isn't an option.
I'll have to have a real think, not to sound soppy but I do love her so it is a tough one.
Yeah it does sound a bit soppy I wish it were as simple as having a discussion but her sister had a prenup, fell apart guy left her up s**** creek after amassing huge amounts of debt in her name. She will never come around to the idea of it due to that.
As mentioned culture plays a big part in both of our lives (hers more than mine) so not getting married isn't an option.
I'll have to have a real think, not to sound soppy but I do love her so it is a tough one.
Sounds like her level of trust isn’t too high given her sisters experience, which sounds terrible so you can understand it, and it sounds like fraud to me,…. You should sit down and have the conversation about your relationship: better to get it all out in the open now. The prenup doesn’t have to be all in your favour I’m sure you could write something in to protect her and her concerns.
FatboyKim said:
I work for a large financial services company, and am paraphrasing some of our guidance here...
Pre-nuptial agreements are not currently legally binding in England or Wales. However, a Judge is likely to consider and uphold a pre-nup as long as certain safeguards have been met, which are there to protect both parties and ensure that the pre-nup agreement can be considered fair and reasonable. If the agreement is too one-sided, then it can be unlikely to stand up in court.
Recent cases we see show that an increasing number of pre-nup agreements are being upheld. To give a pre-nup agreement the best chance of being upheld, the following safeguards should be met:
- Both individuals need to have received independent legal advice about the agreement at the outset. This ensures both parties have a fair deal
- Full and frank financial disclosure of both parties’ assets must have been made prior to the agreement, with no assets hidden
- The agreement must not be entered into less than 21 days before the marriage
- Neither party must have been under pressure or duress to sign the agreement against their will
- There must have been no significant change which would make the agreement inappropriate (for example, the birth of children)
- The agreement must be fair and realistic. If the division of assets between a couple is weighted too heavily the favour of one party, it may be judged to be unfair by the courts and thrown out, meaning that you would go through the divorce without the protection of the pre-nuptial agreement.
- Pre-nuptial agreements should be reviewed and amended periodically during the course of the marriage, particularly when any children are born.
If the above safeguards are not met, then the pre-nuptial agreement is unlikely to be upheld by the courts. When entering into a pre-nuptial agreement, each party who is due to get married must carefully consider future eventualities that could impact on the fairness of an agreement – for instance, one partner giving up their career to bring up children, the marriage lasting many years, or any future joint business ventures entered into.
It certainly is prudent to seek professional financial advice before signing a legally binding contract such as a marriage certificate. Pre-nuptial agreements are not currently legally binding in England or Wales. However, a Judge is likely to consider and uphold a pre-nup as long as certain safeguards have been met, which are there to protect both parties and ensure that the pre-nup agreement can be considered fair and reasonable. If the agreement is too one-sided, then it can be unlikely to stand up in court.
Recent cases we see show that an increasing number of pre-nup agreements are being upheld. To give a pre-nup agreement the best chance of being upheld, the following safeguards should be met:
- Both individuals need to have received independent legal advice about the agreement at the outset. This ensures both parties have a fair deal
- Full and frank financial disclosure of both parties’ assets must have been made prior to the agreement, with no assets hidden
- The agreement must not be entered into less than 21 days before the marriage
- Neither party must have been under pressure or duress to sign the agreement against their will
- There must have been no significant change which would make the agreement inappropriate (for example, the birth of children)
- The agreement must be fair and realistic. If the division of assets between a couple is weighted too heavily the favour of one party, it may be judged to be unfair by the courts and thrown out, meaning that you would go through the divorce without the protection of the pre-nuptial agreement.
- Pre-nuptial agreements should be reviewed and amended periodically during the course of the marriage, particularly when any children are born.
If the above safeguards are not met, then the pre-nuptial agreement is unlikely to be upheld by the courts. When entering into a pre-nuptial agreement, each party who is due to get married must carefully consider future eventualities that could impact on the fairness of an agreement – for instance, one partner giving up their career to bring up children, the marriage lasting many years, or any future joint business ventures entered into.
It's done in the event of the marriage contract coming to an end, so why not do it before the contract begins? In fact, there is an argument to be made to make independent financial advice part of the marriage process.
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