Accused of assault

[Vasco]

Foss62 said:

V1nce Fox said:

sebdangerfield said:

Do they not provide any legal support if tshtf?

The experiences i’ve had with the unions have left me in no doubt that i wouldn’t trust them to take a st without getting it on their hands.

If it turns legal, use actual legal people.

Seems a bit of a daft comment to me. One of the benefits of being in a union is that the union provides ‘actual legal people’ if you need them.

My understanding is that unions are of little real help - and you shouldn't be put in a position where you're persuaded to join one 'for your own protection'.
Personally, I'd be looking for an alternative profession.

[Foss62]

Vasco said:

My understanding is that unions are of little real help - and you shouldn't be put in a position where you're persuaded to join one 'for your own protection'.
Personally, I'd be looking for an alternative profession.

Most union members (whatever the field of work) would view membership as more like an insurance policy. Nobody these days is under any obligation to join, but if things go wrong then you can call on someone to fight your corner, and the union will have significantly more specialist knowledge and resources than you have as an individual.
It’s a bit difficult to understand what ‘little real help’ means in this context.

[V1nce Fox]

Again, just commenting on my own experience.

[Mikebentley]

Foss62 said:

Vasco said:

My understanding is that unions are of little real help - and you shouldn't be put in a position where you're persuaded to join one 'for your own protection'.
Personally, I'd be looking for an alternative profession.

Most union members (whatever the field of work) would view membership as more like an insurance policy. Nobody these days is under any obligation to join, but if things go wrong then you can call on someone to fight your corner, and the union will have significantly more specialist knowledge and resources than you have as an individual.
It’s a bit difficult to understand what ‘little real help’ means in this context.

My relative got zero support from the teaching union. He is now pursuing a claim against them.

[S17Thumper]

Foss62 said:

V1nce Fox said:

sebdangerfield said:

Do they not provide any legal support if tshtf?

The experiences i’ve had with the unions have left me in no doubt that i wouldn’t trust them to take a st without getting it on their hands.

If it turns legal, use actual legal people.

Seems a bit of a daft comment to me. One of the benefits of being in a union is that the union provides ‘actual legal people’ if you need them.

Depends on Fox’s experience, I would assume one where he ‘lost’, hence the view.

Who knows.


OP - much easier said than done, but I would change careers!

[loskie]

I'm in the Civil Service. A member of prospect. On the ONE occasions I asked for union support (to contest and end of year marking) despite conversations with the rep days prior to the meeting they failed to show up on the day. Told me after "they had a meeting". You have no idea how let down I felt. I went ahead with my meeting and achieved my aim however.

[bobsavage789]

S17Thumper said:

Foss62 said:

V1nce Fox said:

sebdangerfield said:

Do they not provide any legal support if tshtf?

The experiences i’ve had with the unions have left me in no doubt that i wouldn’t trust them to take a st without getting it on their hands.

If it turns legal, use actual legal people.

Seems a bit of a daft comment to me. One of the benefits of being in a union is that the union provides ‘actual legal people’ if you need them.

Depends on Fox’s experience, I would assume one where he ‘lost’, hence the view.

Who knows.


OP - much easier said than done, but I would change careers!

I was far from impressed with one of the teaching unions on the one occasion I needed their help.

That’s why I pay far less to an education-specialist ‘union alternative’. The few times I’ve needed them, they’ve been very good.

[loskie]

I object strongly to any political affiliation the unions have

[21TonyK]

Steve H said:

21TonyK said:

I would hope it is made clear to the parent(s) and pupil that false accusations are a very serious issue and could lead to permanent exclusion. Ifs its becoming a bit of a theme in the school the head needs to tackle it and do so very publicly involving parents and pupils. I've taught in mainstream, SEN and residential centres for the most "challenging" youngsters and rules need to clear for everyone and supported by management.

That’s spot on but unfortunately school management is often made up of teachers who’s ambition or circumstances leave them promoted beyond their abilities. It requires some determination and backbone to continue facing down every single behavioural issue until they start to subside and not every head teacher is well enough equipped.

This is the crux of the problem, teachers should be teaching, managers managing. I've seen it so many times, wrong people in the wrong job "just because".

[Drooles]

Best of luck with everything today, OP. Hope it all goes well

[V1nce Fox]

Drooles said:

Best of luck with everything today, OP. Hope it all goes well

Seconded, hope this goes your way. Fingers crossed.

[Sheepshanks]

21TonyK said:

Steve H said:

21TonyK said:

I would hope it is made clear to the parent(s) and pupil that false accusations are a very serious issue and could lead to permanent exclusion. Ifs its becoming a bit of a theme in the school the head needs to tackle it and do so very publicly involving parents and pupils. I've taught in mainstream, SEN and residential centres for the most "challenging" youngsters and rules need to clear for everyone and supported by management.

That’s spot on but unfortunately school management is often made up of teachers who’s ambition or circumstances leave them promoted beyond their abilities. It requires some determination and backbone to continue facing down every single behavioural issue until they start to subside and not every head teacher is well enough equipped.

This is the crux of the problem, teachers should be teaching, managers managing. I've seen it so many times, wrong people in the wrong job "just because".

Hasn’t bringing in ‘professional’ managers been tried and it didn’t work? At the Head level the salary would have to be massively higher.

[V1nce Fox]

Sheepshanks said:

Hasn’t bringing in ‘professional’ managers been tried and it didn’t work? At the Head level the salary would have to be massively higher.

Tricky one, this.

You get a different type of manager if they’ve spent time at the coal face. Pros and cons of both IME.

[Type R Tom]

As the mother is lying, should she be charged with wasting police time?

[Canon_Fodder]

Good luck today OP

[Indecision]

Hope all goes well today OP.

Ref unions- having been a governor at a large academy trust, including being involved in a number of governor appeals, my opinion of the union reps is low. Overly combative in almost all occasions, very rarely helping their members’ cases. Of course some are better than others, but the average standard is very low.

[pavarotti1980]

Indecision said:

Hope all goes well today OP.

Ref unions- having been a governor at a large academy trust, including being involved in a number of governor appeals, my opinion of the union reps is low. Overly combative in almost all occasions, very rarely helping their members’ cases. Of course some are better than others, but the average standard is very low.

I concur with your opinion of union reps. Father in law is one and goes on like Perry Mason. Utterly useless in my opinion but keeps him out of our hair due to doing "appeals"

[R56Cooper]

Indecision said:

Hope all goes well today OP.

Ref unions- having been a governor at a large academy trust, including being involved in a number of governor appeals, my opinion of the union reps is low. Overly combative in almost all occasions, very rarely helping their members’ cases. Of course some are better than others, but the average standard is very low.

I completely agree with your opinion about unions. I would say that it's better than having no advice, however I have dealt with some cases where the union rep has been so aggressive that they've escalated a minor issue into a major one..

OP have you checked your house insurance to see whether you have legal cover? Worth having as an add on as they can cover employment issues.

From what you have said it sounds like the evidence completely supports your account so I would try not to be too worried about any criminal action (easy to say I know). The mother sounds like a total toe-rag.

Having said that, from an internal school disciplinary process you will appreciate that putting hands on a pupil (even if just a finger and thumb on their jacket) does amount to a form of restraint - review the school restraint policy and ask yourself whether it falls within the scope of the policy. Why was it necessary to do that rather than let him go and follow up later in the day.

If you haven't already done so I would prepare a full written account of everything that has happened since the incident. Don't disclose this to anyone but just keep it as an aide memoire at this stage as it's amazing how your recollection of an incident can degrade over the course of a few weeks.

[poo at Paul's]

Don't worry about it, but make sure word gets out about this lying little turd of a kid, by every method you can think of.

[Bingobobster]

Thanks again all. Just received a call from the Head to tell me interview now concluded with the boys mum, a Police officer and staff ( Head / Dept Head and line manager). Long and the short of it, mum informed by the Police who apparently decided my actions were construed to be falling under the umbrella of 'loco parentis' and they would not be pursuing the matter further.

School stated to mum that the incident did not fall within their threshold to be investigated and consider the matter closed.

News to me, but school informed me apparently mum had been ranting her views on Facebook all weekend ( I've not seen it/don't have FB ) and even after watching the video, still thought that his injuries were caused by me so was not happy with the result. Apparently she left and has told the school that she will not be bringing either of her 2 boys back to school ( both the same behaviour wise, I might add ). Whether she does or not, I don't know.

I have been invited to go in for a meeting first thing at 0830am with the Head nd Dept and then asked to continue as normal with their full support. Also informed Police will be contacting me to confirm no further action with allegation.

Thanks again.