More tfl madness/money grabbing

[Draxindustries1]

Seesure said:

Wouldn't worry, it won't be long before the "healthier, more active, greener and cleaner London" is under water due to global warming...






The sooner the better perhaps..??

Couldn't come sooner, the sthole of the world..

[Electro1980]

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

No.

Welshbeef said:

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

There are specific rules about being directed by a police officer that have been discussed here a million times.

[Vipers]

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

It’s happened before and you are onto a loser sadly, the police and the likes of RAC/AA all say do not drive through a red light for an emergency vehicle, neither those vehicle drivers expect you to do it.

Having said that it’s a judgement call individuals have to make at the time.

[Welshbeef]

Vipers said:

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

It’s happened before and you are onto a loser sadly, the police and the likes of RAC/AA all say do not drive through a red light for an emergency vehicle, neither those vehicle drivers expect you to do it.

Having said that it’s a judgement call individuals have to make at the time.

I’ve driven through many reds for emergency vehicles - but in every case it’s been maybe a car length if that (certainly not onto the other direction of traffic flow.).

When that does happen everyone who has moved then calmly moves onward when the lights change. I have to say I’ve not yet had to swerve / more into a bus or cycle Lane.

I have been nipped twice by bus Lane / once where the traffic works forced you to go into a bus Lane (or maybe I drifted too far grrr) the other I foolishly followed a Range Rover and didn’t know the road £60 bang fair enough.

[ChocolateFrog]

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

[Griffith4ever]

Electro1980 said:

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

No.

Welshbeef said:

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

There are specific rules about being directed by a police officer that have been discussed here a million times.

^^^^^^^^^ This

It's been discussed at length. The police make it crystal clear - do NOT jump red lights unless instructed.

It IS binary - they DO fine you. It's well documented with plenty of cases. You can't just appeal and say you moved for an emergency vehicle. They have to have told you to. Untill they make it "non-binary" I will absolutely not cross a red light for an emergency service. If they can't get to their calls without my illegal intervention then something is dearly wrong with the way it is currently set up :-)

[ec1 eex]

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

[Welshbeef]

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

Wales is planning to lower all 30mph to 20mph - all throughout the country.

[NikBartlett]

Welshbeef said:

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

Wales is planning to lower all 30mph to 20mph - all throughout the country.

Once 20mph is agreed, 10mph is next swiftly followed by bloke with red flag

[Killboy]

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Yup, I've received a few. Every one of them I was doing exactly what I was accused of.

[Griffith4ever]

Killboy said:

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Yup, I've received a few. Every one of them I was doing exactly what I was accused of.

Well, I can tell you I received one and I was NOT doing what I was accused of, and my appeal was thrown out without discussion.

I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".

What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.

Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.

If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.

And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.

[MBBlat]

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

And this is where TFL and other camera operators are going wrong. The aim of them shouldn’t be to raise money, but to solve a problem. If the revenue from fines is increasing then the cameras are not actually solving the problem.
Bus lane cameras should be ensuring that the lanes remain unobstructed and clear for buses. The cameras are working if buses are not delayed even if no fines are issued at all.

[Killboy]

Griffith4ever said:

Well, I can tell you I received one and I was NOT doing what I was accused of, and my appeal was thrown out without discussion.

I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".

What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.

Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.

If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.

And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.

Mmmm. So you were in a bus lane? Lol. And I bet that's the only time you have ever done that too - they just happened to catch you this one time.

And what inches did you give back that you dont anymore?

[gazza285]

Griffith4ever said:

What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.

You put your wheel over the line before the bus lane ended, you cannot put your wheel over the line as the bus lane ended because there would be no line to put your wheel over.

Nice to hear that you are behaving yourself now, perhaps you should have done that beforehand.

[MDUBZ]

MBBlat said:

And this is where TFL and other camera operators are going wrong. The aim of them shouldn’t be to raise money, but to solve a problem.

What if the problem is they don’t have enough money?

[Ice_blue_tvr]

Griffith4ever said:

I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".

What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.

Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.

As an advocate of the binary nature of these rules, you seem mad?

[LeoSayer]

MBBlat said:

ec1 eex said:

Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

And this is where TFL and other camera operators are going wrong. The aim of them shouldn’t be to raise money, but to solve a problem. If the revenue from fines is increasing then the cameras are not actually solving the problem.

An increase in speeding fine revenue does not mean the problem isn't being solved.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

I wouldn't drive in London anymore. Apart from paying the congestion charge you can be fined for yellow box infringement, parking etc etc etc.


Yet bizarrely the roads are still driven fast and badly everytime I go down there.

[brickwall]

ec1 eex said:

Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.

Can you point me to where they’ve said this?

[oyster]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

Griffith4ever said:

They are, but, no amount of competence trumps the law. We are not "allowed" to make that call.

Of course nobody is above the law. But I will always make the call to move over the line slightly if it means an emergency vehicle can pass safely.

I really hope people aren't really as binary in really life as they make out on the forum tbh.

A few inches over the line wouldn't trigger a red-light camera anyway, so I'd do that. A full car's length though, no.