Police enquiry at home

[Chozza]

Bigends said:

Do tell - how does modern policing justify a non urgent midnight knock then?

The assumption here is that non-urgent = not time critical.

Take the scenario where someone is stopped. They give a name and address , and maybe even have a driving licence etc. to prove this identify.
The PC suspects that something doesn't add up , so asks an officer close to the address given to check. Hence Time Critical.

Youre not there - so they have to pursue other routes. which could take longer
You helpfully call in - so they know that the id given is false..

Above and similar scenario are time-critical.
Positive ID - could save them having to transport/keep you in a cell etc. so very easily justified in modern policing

Officer might then want a statement to help prosecute - this is non-urgent and can wait for the officer to come back on shift

[SeekerOfTruthAndPies]

Trevor555 said:

SeekerOfTruthAndPies said:

The only thing this thread has proved is that until we know what the reason for the call was, then nearly all of this is pointless conjecture.

We'll have to wait a week to find out

I can live with that.

[the mac]

Easier for you than me though.

[Nibbles_bits]

Trevor555 said:

M.F.D said:

DanL said:

It’s safe to say that (probably!) everyone on this thread understands there was an enquiry that had to be followed up.

What’s lost on us is why it wasn’t followed up during the day, and/or assigned to someone on the day shift to handle if it wasn’t urgent.

I assume there are good reasons why this didn’t happen, but I

But it sounds like the officer dealing was on the last night of nights before having a week off?

Should have been left for the next shift at least?

Or maybe the officer didn't make it clear to the skipper that they won't be working for the next week after tonight?

To leave someone hanging for a week after a midnight knock isn't professional.

It doesn't work like that.
Officers have their own workload on top of responding to emergency calls.
Unless it's urgent, it won't be passed to another Officer.

Despite having this workload AND responding to emergency calls, Officers are hounded to update victims and crime reports.
It could simply be a case of 'Call at the address, so that there is an update on the report'.

It's not unusual for Officers to go on a Driving course, for 4 weeks, and their workload NOT be passed to another Officer.

Calling 'next week' could mean the Officer is only off for 4 days (not a week). So it's very unlikely that it would be passed to another Officer.

Is it unreasonable to call at midnight? Not really.
Would you be happy if the Officer told you they couldn't progress your report because "it's too late"?

On a related note (so that lessons can be learnt) When is it too early to call at an address?
Sunday earlies start at 7am.

Too keep the wolf (SLT) at bay, I would have called at midnight. BUT what I wouldn't have done is a leave a card at all.

[Antony Moxey]

Nibbles_bits said:

Antony Moxey said:

Funny that it's only the police who seem to think it's reasonable to make a house call at midnight for a non-urgent matter.

Could it be because they actually have an understanding of how Policing in 2022 is

Bang your head all you like, but if it's almost universal that those that aren't in the police find it unacceptable and would be worried, despite so-called assurances not to be, for the next week until they do find out what a non-urgent house call was about in the middle of the night, then perhaps the police might like to review policing in 2022 and maybe have a think about how they police in 2022?

[Nightmare]

I’m more on the fence than most. I can easily imagine that the PC has x number of things to attend and one of them may have meant he ended up round the corner form the OP and thought ‘ooh whilst I’m here I could cross this off too’ Sounds like they knocked once - ‘if they happen to be in and awake I can totally sort this out’ got no answer so left a card. Really doesn’t sound like they gave it a proper police door knock in any way so I’m much less outraged about the time. Also I’m just grateful I don’t have a job where I might still be working at midnight and have to go and knock on doors.

Not being able to in any way allay the concerns of the OP for a week seems a bit rough though - I agree your average law-abiding citizen would probably worry about this. But until we actually know what it’s about then I don’t feel having a definite is reasonable.

[vonhosen]

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

[langtounlad]

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

Which perfectly illustrates how illogical that argument is. The OP 'may' still be in bed during 'normal' working hours, but would not get any sympathy if he came on here and complained that the police had knocked on his door at e.g. 11:00am. Because it's reasonable to call at that time but unreasonable to call at midnight. I don't understand why you struggle with that logic. I'm very sympathetic to the point that a normal P.C. is often overworked. The explanation of how work is allocated and not covered by the team during off-duty sounds like working practices of the 1980's however.

[DanL]

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

So, he’d have been in, and his wife would have been undisturbed.

Perfect outcome - it wouldn’t have been a wasted trip, and the OP wouldn’t have had cause to complain as someone knocking on your door during the daytime isn’t unusual by any standard.

[vonhosen]

DanL said:

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

So, he’d have been in, and his wife would have been undisturbed.

Perfect outcome - it wouldn’t have been a wasted trip, and the OP wouldn’t have had cause to complain as someone knocking on your door during the daytime isn’t unusual by any standard.

Or equally he'd have remained asleep, the wife still wouldn't have wanted to open the door & a note would have been left with the officer not available for another week.

[vonhosen]

langtounlad said:

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

Which perfectly illustrates how illogical that argument is. The OP 'may' still be in bed during 'normal' working hours, but would not get any sympathy if he came on here and complained that the police had knocked on his door at e.g. 11:00am. Because it's reasonable to call at that time but unreasonable to call at midnight. I don't understand why you struggle with that logic. I'm very sympathetic to the point that a normal P.C. is often overworked. The explanation of how work is allocated and not covered by the team during off-duty sounds like working practices of the 1980's however.

It's not struggling with the logic, it's simply disagreeing with it.
You think midnight is too late & unreasonable, but i don't think it is.
That's for the Police or others.
The water services were outside the other night past 10.30pm, because they couldn't get there any earlier.
Not an emergency it could have waited to morning without ill effect, but just volume of work & getting to it when they could.

[DanL]

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

So, he’d have been in, and his wife would have been undisturbed.

Perfect outcome - it wouldn’t have been a wasted trip, and the OP wouldn’t have had cause to complain as someone knocking on your door during the daytime isn’t unusual by any standard.

Or equally he'd have remained asleep, the wife still wouldn't have wanted to open the door & a note would have been left with the officer not available for another week.

In which case, we still wouldn’t have had this thread because this appears to be primarily about the unreasonable time the police visited.

I’ve read your contributions on various threads over the years - you seem quite reasonable. This is a curious blind spot to that reasonableness, which is why I posted earlier that I’d assumed I was missing some other justification for the timing of the visit.

[langtounlad]

vonhosen said:

Or equally he'd have remained asleep, the wife still wouldn't have wanted to open the door & a note would have been left with the officer not available for another week.

I'm sorry, the 'but equally' argument doesn't hold at all. In the daytime scenario, I'd expect that the wife is far more likely to be willing to open the door - especially if the Op is in the house, albeit in bed. You appear to be determined to want to argue a point, apparently just to defend the police action because you are/were one of that team. I've acknowledged the work pressure that may have resulted in the midnight call - but that doesn't make it acceptable if the reason is not serious.

[selym]

Short Grain said:

Careful OP, they're onto you!! Your Nicked!! (Reagan and Carter will be kicking your (back)doors in next!!

Edited by Short Grain on Monday 27th June 11:05

You are setting a bit of a 'president' there!

[vonhosen]

langtounlad said:

vonhosen said:

Or equally he'd have remained asleep, the wife still wouldn't have wanted to open the door & a note would have been left with the officer not available for another week.

I'm sorry, the 'but equally' argument doesn't hold at all. In the daytime scenario, I'd expect that the wife is far more likely to be willing to open the door - especially if the Op is in the house, albeit in bed. You appear to determined to want to argue a point, apparently just to defend the police action because you are/were one of that team. I've acknowledged the work pressure that may have resulted in the midnight call - but that doesn't make it acceptable if indeed the reason is not serious.

It's not primarily about defending Police action.
It's disagreeing that midnight is carte blanche too late to call on people for a non urgent matter (not just for Police).

[Bigends]

vonhosen said:

langtounlad said:

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

Which perfectly illustrates how illogical that argument is. The OP 'may' still be in bed during 'normal' working hours, but would not get any sympathy if he came on here and complained that the police had knocked on his door at e.g. 11:00am. Because it's reasonable to call at that time but unreasonable to call at midnight. I don't understand why you struggle with that logic. I'm very sympathetic to the point that a normal P.C. is often overworked. The explanation of how work is allocated and not covered by the team during off-duty sounds like working practices of the 1980's however.

It's not struggling with the logic, it's simply disagreeing with it.
You think midnight is too late & unreasonable, but i don't think it is.
That's for the Police or others.
The water services were outside the other night past 10.30pm, because they couldn't get there any earlier.
Not an emergency it could have waited to morning without ill effect, but just volume of work & getting to it when they could.

Did they go knocking everybody up to let them know they were working - how you can compare that to the Police calling for for a non urgent matter at that time of night. Work at that time of night would be pre planned or emergency - not because they didnt have time

[Fore Left]

vonhosen said:

It's not primarily about defending Police action.
It's disagreeing that midnight is carte blanche too late to call on people for a non urgent matter (not just for Police).

As a double glazing salesman I find that midnight is the ideal time to knock on a potential customer's door. They'll sign anything to get back to bed

[langtounlad]

vonhosen said:

It's not primarily about defending Police action.
It's disagreeing that midnight is carte blanche too late to call on people for a non urgent matter (not just for Police).

Well, I can assure you that I'm of the opinion that the Police do not have carte blanche to come knocking on my door at midnight, for anything short of a 'life or death' matter. I'd be surprised but tolerant up to approx 21:00 - 22:00 at most, as I recognise that they are a 24hr operation. Beyond 22:00 would be counterproductive as my (and I'm sure the majority of others) cooperation would be minimal and quickly extend to questioning why the hell they think that midnight is ok to come disturbing my legitimate peace & quiet. For the record, I've never had anything but a positive interaction with the police, other than when stopped for speeding - but that was handled fairly & politely (40+ years ago)

[vonhosen]

langtounlad said:

vonhosen said:

It's not primarily about defending Police action.
It's disagreeing that midnight is carte blanche too late to call on people for a non urgent matter (not just for Police).

Well, I can assure you that I'm of the opinion that the Police do not have carte blanche to come knocking on my door at midnight, for anything short of a 'life or death' matter. I'd be surprised but tolerant up to approx 21:00 - 22:00 at most, as I recognise that they are a 24hr operation. Beyond 22:00 would be counterproductive as my (and I'm sure the majority of others) cooperation would be minimal and quickly extend to questioning why the hell they think that midnight is ok to come disturbing my legitimate peace & quiet. For the record, I've never had anything but a positive interaction with the police, other than when stopped for speeding - but that was handled fairly & politely (40+ years ago)

So we disagree.
That happens.

[vonhosen]

Bigends said:

vonhosen said:

langtounlad said:

vonhosen said:

DanL said:

Think it’s all been said, but if it’s something that can wait a week it’s something that could be dealt with in office hours.

Come midnight, most people over 30 are either in bed or asleep - the exceptions being shift workers. As expressed by a number of people on this thread, most people also don’t have any previous dealings with the police, and would assume that a midnight call indicates something important. They’re then going to worry about what it is until it’s resolved.

If they called in office hours the OP would be in bed asleep!

Which perfectly illustrates how illogical that argument is. The OP 'may' still be in bed during 'normal' working hours, but would not get any sympathy if he came on here and complained that the police had knocked on his door at e.g. 11:00am. Because it's reasonable to call at that time but unreasonable to call at midnight. I don't understand why you struggle with that logic. I'm very sympathetic to the point that a normal P.C. is often overworked. The explanation of how work is allocated and not covered by the team during off-duty sounds like working practices of the 1980's however.

It's not struggling with the logic, it's simply disagreeing with it.
You think midnight is too late & unreasonable, but i don't think it is.
That's for the Police or others.
The water services were outside the other night past 10.30pm, because they couldn't get there any earlier.
Not an emergency it could have waited to morning without ill effect, but just volume of work & getting to it when they could.

Did they go knocking everybody up to let them know they were working - how you can compare that to the Police calling for for a non urgent matter at that time of night. Work at that time of night would be pre planned or emergency - not because they didnt have time

It wasn't an emergency, it had taken them days to attend, they did knock, the following morning wouldn't have made any difference to the problem other than it would have been another job carrying over to the next day & subsequently knocking all such jobs one further down the queue.