Wide single 2 lane carriageways - overtaking
Discussion
siremoon said:
Each to their own but I wouldn't do what that overtaking car is doing in the OP's picture. I have a simple rule: if an overtake requires an oncoming vehicle to be fully aware of my presence to prevent a head-on then I don't do it. Too many drivers who don't pay attention. Others can, and will, do what they like.
The Ilminster bypass on the A303 was originally like this and there were so many serious accidents that they had to rework it to standard width lanes with centre overtaking lanes alternating for each direction.
Agreed. If there is a gap on the opposite side, alongside the vehicle I am overtaking, and I can return to my side in good time, then yes. I wouldn’t rely on others keeping adequately to the left of their lane.The Ilminster bypass on the A303 was originally like this and there were so many serious accidents that they had to rework it to standard width lanes with centre overtaking lanes alternating for each direction.
E-bmw said:
Not technically incorrect/illegal.
He has crossed the "hazard" lines (long line, short break) and provided they "did so whilst certain it was safe" the driver isn't in the wrong.
In my opinion technically incorrect and the manoeuvre made me feel uncomfortable.He has crossed the "hazard" lines (long line, short break) and provided they "did so whilst certain it was safe" the driver isn't in the wrong.
Whilst it is true that oncoming vehicles pass at close proximity on ordinary A roads such encounters are predictable. This overtaker was taking a risk that the traffic that was being overtaken held their road position and if that traffic had unexpected cause to move right then the overtaker could be having a head on collision with me. Also the driver of a vehicle behind me could decide to perform the same manoeuvre which could result in a head on collision which would also have affected me.
On the balance of probability if a potentially dangerous manoeuvre is performed often enough then a certain percentage will result in catastrophe as supported by the comments about the this road and other similar roads above.
130
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
Was it safe?
A22 Uckfield bypass can get pretty lairy - wide 2 lanes, but with multiple roundabouts & a couple of unsighted corners that seem to get narrower. I'm happy to overtake on the straight bits if traffic is not too heavy, but I've seen too many close calls on the curvy bits, so I keep well left.
"Suicide lanes"... that brings back some good memories.
Back when I first ventured out into the big wide world on a decent bike, I used to spend hours blatting my BSA 650 along the "middle lane" of the local A4 dodging oncoming SD1s and XJ6s. Far more recently, many of the roads I used to reach t'other half's place in Devon had a suicide lane. Most have now gone and have been replaced with either these wide lanes, or more likely, sections of two lane and solid whites.
On the above, I'd overtake if needed, but as others have said, I'd plan on having an escape route... just in case.
Back when I first ventured out into the big wide world on a decent bike, I used to spend hours blatting my BSA 650 along the "middle lane" of the local A4 dodging oncoming SD1s and XJ6s. Far more recently, many of the roads I used to reach t'other half's place in Devon had a suicide lane. Most have now gone and have been replaced with either these wide lanes, or more likely, sections of two lane and solid whites.
On the above, I'd overtake if needed, but as others have said, I'd plan on having an escape route... just in case.
Actual said:
E-bmw said:
Not technically incorrect/illegal.
He has crossed the "hazard" lines (long line, short break) and provided they "did so whilst certain it was safe" the driver isn't in the wrong.
In my opinion technically incorrect and the manoeuvre made me feel uncomfortable.He has crossed the "hazard" lines (long line, short break) and provided they "did so whilst certain it was safe" the driver isn't in the wrong.
Whilst it is true that oncoming vehicles pass at close proximity on ordinary A roads such encounters are predictable. This overtaker was taking a risk that the traffic that was being overtaken held their road position and if that traffic had unexpected cause to move right then the overtaker could be having a head on collision with me. Also the driver of a vehicle behind me could decide to perform the same manoeuvre which could result in a head on collision which would also have affected me.
Actual said:
On the balance of probability if a potentially dangerous manoeuvre is performed often enough then a certain percentage will result in catastrophe as supported by the comments about the this road and other similar roads above.
130
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
Was it safe?
Did it cause a crash?130
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
Was it safe?
Ergo it was safe.
aturnick54 said:
Rather curious as to what the general etiquette and rules are around these roads where they're plenty wide enough for 3 cars side by side, such as the below example.
Should you expect traffic to keep left in both directions so that you can overtake in the middle? Just feels a bit strange overtaking and straddling the central line with oncoming cars.
Would be interesting to see what an insurer would think should there be a head-on collision while a vehicle is overtaking.
The etiquette is that the driver of the car overtaking there is a Should you expect traffic to keep left in both directions so that you can overtake in the middle? Just feels a bit strange overtaking and straddling the central line with oncoming cars.
Would be interesting to see what an insurer would think should there be a head-on collision while a vehicle is overtaking.
and can fk right off. It's a SC with two lanes, regardless of the width of the lane or the fact it used to be three lanes.There's some former three-lane roads near me and this behaviour is very rare. But, in another part of the country I was driving on such a road in the centre of my lane and I had to take evasive action after some muppet swung out into my lane expecting me to just vanish somehow.
If there are three lanes, it's fine to use three lanes. If there are two, you have to wait for a suitable gap.
E-bmw said:
Did it cause a crash?
Ergo it was safe.
I wouldn't personally define safe simply on the basis of an adverse outcome or not.Ergo it was safe.
At 2am I could just shut my eyes & drive through a red light & probably get away with it. But I wouldn't consider it a safe thing to do even if I did get away with it.
For the record though I don't have a problem with 3 abreast overtakes on a wide enough road with suitable vision, traffic positions/conditions.
Does anyone remember "Death Hill" A20 near Farningham in Kent? Guess why it was called "Death hill".
And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
M4cruiser said:
Does anyone remember "Death Hill" A20 near Farningham in Kent? Guess why it was called "Death hill".
And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
In my memory that was two lanes up hill, one lane downhill with double white lines - they should have kept it like that. That said, they weren't very wide lanes!And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
That's like the Chirk bypass on the A5 and certain sections of the A66. Very sensible, uphill overtaking lane
When I first moved to London I’d commute from Cheltenham via Oxford on the A40/M40 route when coming home on the odd weekend.
When I first started that, the single carriageway section there was great for doing this “middle of the lanes” overtaking. There’s a section heading from Cheltenham up to Stratford Upon Avon that’s similar (road escapes me)
However in probably the last 10 -15 years on seemingly any road like this every road seems outraged you want to come past them.
As a result I’ve given up trying to do it. Life’s too short to see someone basically having a stroke weaving over the road at you.
When I first started that, the single carriageway section there was great for doing this “middle of the lanes” overtaking. There’s a section heading from Cheltenham up to Stratford Upon Avon that’s similar (road escapes me)
However in probably the last 10 -15 years on seemingly any road like this every road seems outraged you want to come past them.
As a result I’ve given up trying to do it. Life’s too short to see someone basically having a stroke weaving over the road at you.
Biker 1 said:
A22 Uckfield bypass can get pretty lairy - wide 2 lanes, but with multiple roundabouts & a couple of unsighted corners that seem to get narrower. I'm happy to overtake on the straight bits if traffic is not too heavy, but I've seen too many close calls on the curvy bits, so I keep well left.
The only bit which is really wide enough for overtaking with oncoming traffic is the Maresfield bypass. Further north there used to be a suicide lane just south of Wych Cross, removed due to the number of accidents.Problem these days is drivers are too selfish and dont believe in showing consideration to anyone else so some just wont help overtakes etc
M4cruiser said:
Does anyone remember "Death Hill" A20 near Farningham in Kent? Guess why it was called "Death hill".
And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
It was called ‘Death Hill’ because, yes, it was a simple single carriageway, but essentially it attracted a few throbbers on motorbikes who had just left Brand Hatch circuit, and thought they were up to it. In the late 1950s/early 1960s there was no national speed limit outside of urban areas.And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
Turbobanana said:
I've used that section of A5 for over 30 years and always look for opportunities to overtake, but - as said above - with great caution and always ensuring a back up plan in the form of a gap to go into. Also, there is the constant fear of the BiB hiding behind a bush with a hairdryer these days.
Too true.Back in 1997 I got spectacularly nicked by an unmarked Police bike.
There again, I was young, immortal and overtaking blocks of 5, 10, 15 cars at the time and going a bit fast.
First and last time I've been nicked.
If you’ve got a good view and are sure everyone will cooperate, then I’d consider it. If you’re relying on people you’ve not seen yet to react appropriately, then bear in mind this worst case scenario:
Death by Careless Driving
Death by Careless Driving
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