Government Green Day - Gas Prices to increase
Discussion
From Sky News
Today the government confirmed over £350m of investment for electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure - with charging accessibility being a complaint of many electric vehicle owners. Sky News has asked the government whether this is new money but has not yet received a response.
But what is expected to really drive the switch from petrol and diesel to electric cars is the "zero emission vehicle mandate", requiring a minimum percentage of manufacturers' new car and van sales to be zero emission from 2024.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035.
EV sales already reached 15% of new car sales in the year to June 2022, and the targets broadly track projected sales anyway, according to analysts. Some say the targets should be more ambitious in order to accelerate growth of the second-hand EV market, enabling more drivers to switch to electric.
More fire-power for heat pumps
To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply.
Today the government pledged £30m to help boost manufacturing and supply of heat pumps in the UK - it has not yet confirmed if this is new or whether it comes out of a previously announced £1bn fund.
And it is to consult on a heat pump sales mandate from 2024.
It also extended an existing £5,000 grant to anyone buying a heat pump to 2028, under the Boiler Upgrade Scheme.
However, the government did commit to rebalancing the "current distortions in electricity and gas prices" to ensure electricity is cheaper.
The rebalance will "help reduce the operating costs of heat pumps, electric vehicles and other low carbon technologies," said Sir John Armitt, chair of the National Infrastructure Commission. "The sooner this can be achieved, the better."
I don't think this has been posted, but the main news is that the government intends to push up gas prices!
Today the government confirmed over £350m of investment for electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure - with charging accessibility being a complaint of many electric vehicle owners. Sky News has asked the government whether this is new money but has not yet received a response.
But what is expected to really drive the switch from petrol and diesel to electric cars is the "zero emission vehicle mandate", requiring a minimum percentage of manufacturers' new car and van sales to be zero emission from 2024.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035.
EV sales already reached 15% of new car sales in the year to June 2022, and the targets broadly track projected sales anyway, according to analysts. Some say the targets should be more ambitious in order to accelerate growth of the second-hand EV market, enabling more drivers to switch to electric.
More fire-power for heat pumps
To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply.
Today the government pledged £30m to help boost manufacturing and supply of heat pumps in the UK - it has not yet confirmed if this is new or whether it comes out of a previously announced £1bn fund.
And it is to consult on a heat pump sales mandate from 2024.
It also extended an existing £5,000 grant to anyone buying a heat pump to 2028, under the Boiler Upgrade Scheme.
However, the government did commit to rebalancing the "current distortions in electricity and gas prices" to ensure electricity is cheaper.
The rebalance will "help reduce the operating costs of heat pumps, electric vehicles and other low carbon technologies," said Sir John Armitt, chair of the National Infrastructure Commission. "The sooner this can be achieved, the better."
I don't think this has been posted, but the main news is that the government intends to push up gas prices!
"But what is expected to really drive the switch from petrol and diesel to electric cars is the "zero emission vehicle mandate", requiring a minimum percentage of manufacturers' new car and van sales to be zero emission from 2024.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
To take this point
"To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply."
Many are well aware and also aware of the many drawbacks.
"To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply."
Many are well aware and also aware of the many drawbacks.
JagLover said:
To take this point
"To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply."
Many are well aware and also aware of the many drawbacks.
It's patently incorrect - people haven't changed to them because they are far more expensive than what they already have, both to run and buy, and require expensive renovations to update the rest of the heating system to better support them. "To meet an existing target to free Britain's heating system of gas, all homes will eventually have to get rid of their gas boilers. Many homes will install heat pumps instead, but uptake so far has been slow due to a lack of awareness and supply."
Many are well aware and also aware of the many drawbacks.
And when you've spent all that money, the quality of the heat is worse, and theres a constant hum all day and all night.
If they want uptake they need to make something better and cheaper than the combi boiler - which cannot be done in the size box people will tolerate having attached to their houses.
Randy Winkman said:
Industry in the UK suffers in comparison to other countries because electricity is so expensive but gas is cheap. That helps domestic users but not business. Past energy policy has mostly revolved around keeping householders happy.
So the answer is to make gas as or more expensive than electricity??!Matthen said:
It's patently incorrect - people haven't changed to them because they are far more expensive than what they already have, both to run and buy, and require expensive renovations to update the rest of the heating system to better support them.
And when you've spent all that money, the quality of the heat is worse, and theres a constant hum all day and all night.
If they want uptake they need to make something better and cheaper than the combi boiler - which cannot be done in the size box people will tolerate having attached to their houses.
It they looked down the right end of the telescope and built a dozen nuclear power stations , then we could just use normal electric heaters , they think heat pumps will make the most of the limited amount of electricity we currently have ..And when you've spent all that money, the quality of the heat is worse, and theres a constant hum all day and all night.
If they want uptake they need to make something better and cheaper than the combi boiler - which cannot be done in the size box people will tolerate having attached to their houses.
Terminator X said:
"But what is expected to really drive the switch from petrol and diesel to electric cars is the "zero emission vehicle mandate", requiring a minimum percentage of manufacturers' new car and van sales to be zero emission from 2024.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
They will build all the EVs they can sell, then they will sell only the ICE cars that allows. This won't be the problem for the manufacturers that you think because it will push up prices to compensate until more EVs get bought and a new equilibrium is forced.A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
Of course if you like being able to get around and your incoming is lower then you might have a problem as your usual car purchase will increase in cost by proportionally more, but, well, f
k you. I think that's the broad policy summary going back 20 years in a nutshell.paulrockliffe said:
Terminator X said:
"But what is expected to really drive the switch from petrol and diesel to electric cars is the "zero emission vehicle mandate", requiring a minimum percentage of manufacturers' new car and van sales to be zero emission from 2024.
A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
They will build all the EVs they can sell, then they will sell only the ICE cars that allows. This won't be the problem for the manufacturers that you think because it will push up prices to compensate until more EVs get bought and a new equilibrium is forced.A new consultation document today sets out minimum sales targets. These would be 22% in 2024, increasing to 80% in 2030 and 100% in 2035."
Will be interesting if they are obliged to build them and they just sit their un-bought.
TX.
Of course if you like being able to get around and your incoming is lower then you might have a problem as your usual car purchase will increase in cost by proportionally more, but, well, f
k you. I think that's the broad policy summary going back 20 years in a nutshell.I dont know where they think folk will magic the money from for all this ?
We spent seven grand upgrading our heating system to a new boiler and various bits, to my mind thats done for twenty years or so, not going to spend ten or fifteen grand ripping it out to replace with something that isnt as good as the government say so.
We have two cars, both are fine, could go and buy an EV but dont particularly want one or to have to lay out 30/40 grand for one I would actually consider, even then I do minimal mileage so seems pointless for some minimal environmental angle, its a Fiesta that does 100 miles a week if that.
And we have no mortgage, a decent income, no debt, some savings, no kids at home and spare cash each month, so how do they expect people who are on the back foot financially to go that way ? I cant really afford to capitulate so damn sure a couple both on min wage with two kids wont be able to.
Alternatives need to be as good or better and compete on price, none of it is quite there yet.
We spent seven grand upgrading our heating system to a new boiler and various bits, to my mind thats done for twenty years or so, not going to spend ten or fifteen grand ripping it out to replace with something that isnt as good as the government say so.
We have two cars, both are fine, could go and buy an EV but dont particularly want one or to have to lay out 30/40 grand for one I would actually consider, even then I do minimal mileage so seems pointless for some minimal environmental angle, its a Fiesta that does 100 miles a week if that.
And we have no mortgage, a decent income, no debt, some savings, no kids at home and spare cash each month, so how do they expect people who are on the back foot financially to go that way ? I cant really afford to capitulate so damn sure a couple both on min wage with two kids wont be able to.
Alternatives need to be as good or better and compete on price, none of it is quite there yet.
Ivan stewart said:
Randy Winkman said:
Industry in the UK suffers in comparison to other countries because electricity is so expensive but gas is cheap. That helps domestic users but not business. Past energy policy has mostly revolved around keeping householders happy.
So the answer is to make gas as or more expensive than electricity??!Gas is witheringly expensive as it stands, if they push the prices significantly higher I could forsee elderly and those on low incomes shivering in freezing houses, afraid or unable to turn on their heat. Heat pumps really aren't a viable economic solution for millions of households, either because of costs to install, or the suitability of properties. It's an incredibly myopic policy.
Randy Winkman said:
The idea is that the cost balance will change for industry which will make the UK more competitive and help the country. Not saying that will happen but that's the idea.
Yes, but the cost balance for industry is to put tariffs on imports so that domestic industry can compete with countries that haven't deliberately destroyed their energy supply. This is great if you are the owner of a manufacturing business in the UK, but it's terrible for anyone that buys stuff that's been manufactured, because now it will cost more.And obviously that cost burden falls on all of us, pretty much everything we do will result in some extra tax that we then have to pay for.
Putting up the price of imports won't have any effect on our exports, they'll remain in competition with companies in non-cratered-energy countries globally.
This policy announcement was simple a list of all the new reasons why we'll all be poorer, to go on top of all the other ones that have emerged in the last couple of years. Yet it's only a few weeks since Rishi was telling us that reducing the cost of living was his number one priority.
Luckily, he's got 12 months before he's f
ked off, but unluckily we've got Ed Milliband to look forward to.f
king hell.Jasandjules said:
Have we reached peak stupid yet? We seem to be really, really close with our Govts attempting to ruin us. But are we there yet?!!?
I think peak stupid will be led by Ed Miliband unfortunately. I'm moderately hopeful that the next election will destroy the 'right' socialist's party and that will create the room for the left socialists to go the same way.The Guardian article has a slightly different view on this but it is written by George Monbiot so...
I note that so called 'green' articles always end up comparing the UK housing stock with European housing stock - which I believe to be unfair.
I'm sure it would be enormously costly to bring most of the UK housing stock up to the spec of European housing in ECO terms.
I note that so called 'green' articles always end up comparing the UK housing stock with European housing stock - which I believe to be unfair.
I'm sure it would be enormously costly to bring most of the UK housing stock up to the spec of European housing in ECO terms.
The pathetic approach from this and past Governments in securing energy processes and insulating our decrepit housing stock is lamentable and now in full glaring vision. Short term hits with eyes on re-election have caused massive damage to the U.K. Putin has opened the box for all to see.
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