Towing Limits.
Discussion
It all comes down to the plated weights. My Sprinter has a max gross weight of 3.5 Tons. It also has a max towing weight of 3.5Tons. Add these two together and you get 7 Tons. However it also has a Gross Train Weight (GTW) of 6.5 Tons. So either the loaded van has to be 0.5ton under the maximum weight or the trailer has to be 0.5Ton under the maximum weight or any combination of the two that gets it below 6.5Ton. You can upgrade the sprinter to a higher GTW but it is quite expensive and a tacho is mandatory.
That Peugeot Boxer is very unlikely to have a GTW of over 6.5Ton, unless it’s a special order vehicle custom made for the job. Most Boxers are rated at a GTW of less than 6.5Ton.
So a full fat RR and triaxle trailer will almost certainly be well over 3.5T probably nearer 4.0Ton. The boxer itself empty will be 2 ton. So it’s almost certainly overweight by the entire weight of the EV lump sat on the back of the beaver tail.
Good luck to the bloke driving it obviously doesn’t value his license, assuming he has one?
That Peugeot Boxer is very unlikely to have a GTW of over 6.5Ton, unless it’s a special order vehicle custom made for the job. Most Boxers are rated at a GTW of less than 6.5Ton.
So a full fat RR and triaxle trailer will almost certainly be well over 3.5T probably nearer 4.0Ton. The boxer itself empty will be 2 ton. So it’s almost certainly overweight by the entire weight of the EV lump sat on the back of the beaver tail.
Good luck to the bloke driving it obviously doesn’t value his license, assuming he has one?
alabbasi said:
Towing capacity is the gross combined weight of the vehicle minus weight of the vehicle
Weight of a range rover is 5000lbs. The gross combined weight is around 15000lbs. This means it can tow up to 10,000. Easily another range rover on a trailer.
No it cannot. The max tow weight for a standard tow hitch in the UK is 3,500kg. which is around 7,700 of your old-fashioned Lbs.Weight of a range rover is 5000lbs. The gross combined weight is around 15000lbs. This means it can tow up to 10,000. Easily another range rover on a trailer.
MustangGT said:
No it cannot. The max tow weight for a standard tow hitch in the UK is 3,500kg. which is around 7,700 of your old-fashioned Lbs.
That's the tongue weight not the tow weight. The tongue weight is the max downward force on the hitch. The weight of whatever you're towing should be on the trailer axles if you load it properly. alabbasi said:
That's the tongue weight not the tow weight. The tongue weight is the max downward force on the hitch. The weight of whatever you're towing should be on the trailer axles if you load it properly.
No its not the tongue weight. Are you serious? Did you check and understand what you wrote? 3.5 tons onto a towball of a vehicle weighing around 1-5-2 tons????alabbasi said:
MustangGT said:
No it cannot. The max tow weight for a standard tow hitch in the UK is 3,500kg. which is around 7,700 of your old-fashioned Lbs.
That's the tongue weight not the tow weight. The tongue weight is the max downward force on the hitch. The weight of whatever you're towing should be on the trailer axles if you load it properly. 
Tongue weight is generally in the order of 75kg, 165 lbs.
Your V5C will give max values:
F1 = Max permissible mass
G = Mass in service (F1 - G gives approximate loading mass available)
O1 = Max trailer weight (braked)
O2 = Max trailer weight (unbraked)
For a car in the UK O1 cannot exceed 3.5t (3,500kg), and O2 cannot exceed 750kg
On the vehicle plating you will also get Max train weight. Vehicle and trailer combined cannot exceed this value.
paul_c123 said:
No its not the tongue weight. Are you serious? Did you check and understand what you wrote? 3.5 tons onto a towball of a vehicle weighing around 1-5-2 tons????
Yeah I misread. We have different classes hitch here and there's no standard that rates up to 3500kg. Whatever on the ball would be 10-15% of the total. In any case, it would be the gross combined weight and the vehicle weight (with the appropriate hitch) should be on a sticker inside the door jamb. Recovery trucks will be custom built and likely have beefed up chases, springs and axles so it's a matter of looking at whatever the sticker says.As a side note, everything used in Europe for towing looks to be under built but that's another topic. If you have a law that says that you cannot tow more than 3500kg, that's a law, not a capability. It may mean that you need another endorsement on your license. I don't know about any of that.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 13th March 15:58
alabbasi said:
Yeah I misread. We have different classes hitch here and there's no standard that rates up to 3500kg. Whatever on the ball would be 10-15% of the total. In any case, it would be the gross combined weight and the vehicle weight (with the appropriate hitch) should be on a sticker inside the door jamb. Recovery trucks will be custom built and likely have beefed up chases, springs and axles so it's a matter of looking at whatever the sticker says.
As a side note, everything used in Europe for towing looks to be under built but that's another topic. If you have a law that says that you cannot tow more than 3500kg, that's a law, not a capability. It may mean that you need another endorsement on your license. I don't know about any of that.
10-15% may be what's on that diagram, but its way over what a typical <3.5t trailer would impose on a suitable towing vehicle here. As above, typical noseweight is 75kg. Remember, we are talking about a double or triple axle trailer with the wheels in the centre, it is designed to be compatible with UK/European towing vehicles and as such, its designed to impose a small noseweight (and still tow safe and stable).As a side note, everything used in Europe for towing looks to be under built but that's another topic. If you have a law that says that you cannot tow more than 3500kg, that's a law, not a capability. It may mean that you need another endorsement on your license. I don't know about any of that.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 13th March 15:58
Recovery trucks may well be custom built but we're talking about car transporters, not 'recovery', there is a subtle difference. A typical recovery truck in the UK has a flat bed, probably a tilt&slide, and as soon as you equip a 3.5t commercial vehicle with one of those it eats into the payload so much, it can't recover anything except a city car legally! So, actual car transporters are built for light weight and will have a fixed (typically aluminium) body, aluminium ramps, maybe not even a winch, spare wheel, passenger seat or flooring in the centre. All to keep weight down.
It looks underbuilt becuase its built to 3500kg. Go above that and you're into speed limiter and tacho territory.
I'd suggest the above is irrelevant to this discussion and somewhat misleading for the UK.
paul_c123 said:
I'd suggest the above is irrelevant to this discussion and somewhat misleading for the UK.
Fair enough. I use a one ton diesel pickup for towing (2002 Ford F350). it can tow up to 12000lbs and had no issues pulling my trailer with something as heavy as a silver shadow behind it for 12 hours (at a comfortable 70+mph). A new Ford F150 which is a 1/2 ton trucks can tow up to 13500lbs. I'd be a little leery of doing so but Ford says it's okay.F150's are available in RHD for the Australian market so it might be feasible to own one in the UK.
alabbasi said:
Fair enough. I use a one ton diesel pickup for towing (2002 Ford F350). it can tow up to 12000lbs and had no issues pulling my trailer with something as heavy as a silver shadow behind it for 12 hours (at a comfortable 70+mph). A new Ford F150 which is a 1/2 ton trucks can tow up to 13500lbs. I'd be a little leery of doing so but Ford says it's okay.
F150's are available in RHD for the Australian market so it might be feasible to own one in the UK.
I am confused, your profile says you are in the UK?F150's are available in RHD for the Australian market so it might be feasible to own one in the UK.
Part of the calculations here may be based on hill start capabilities.
alabbasi said:
MustangGT said:
I am confused, your profile says you are in the UK?
Part of the calculations here may be based on hill start capabilities.
Only when I visit my parents Part of the calculations here may be based on hill start capabilities.
You could update your profile to show your 'real' country, it would reduce confusion (mine anyway).
r.fensome said:
My car (Mondeo Estate) can legally tow upto its kerbside weight (1600kg)
.....puts anorak on.....Your car can probably tow up to 1800kgs.
Kerbweight has little to do with towing legally.
A glance at Parkers shows a diesel Mondeo Estate has indeed a kerbweight of 1602kgs, but can tow 1800 kgs.
Yes, some insurances have clauses that say you should not tow over 100% of Kerbweight.
But of course, a Kerbweight figure has no legal definition and is impossible to determine without a weighbridge. The manufacturers kerbweight figures are generic and usually without options. Some manufacturers have different definitions of kerbweight with regards to fluids and even driver.
Even the V5 Mass in Service is a fairly generic figure.
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