A message to PH from your PH BiB
Discussion
Well said Dibble.
I'm glad that there are bib on here and that we can talk to them. I truly believe PH would be worse off without them, and I think Vonhosens contributions are... well, some of the best (and most important) here on PH. I don't always agree with VH, but i also don't doubt that he (and all the other bib) posts with the utmost integrity, for which i'm grateful.
I'm glad that there are bib on here and that we can talk to them. I truly believe PH would be worse off without them, and I think Vonhosens contributions are... well, some of the best (and most important) here on PH. I don't always agree with VH, but i also don't doubt that he (and all the other bib) posts with the utmost integrity, for which i'm grateful.
Silent1 said:
The Tuscan Rat said:
E1DJH said:
I have made friends with PHers who just happened to be BiB, and i appreciate those friendships.
Yes, about that drive back from The National Motor Museum......Edited by The Tuscan Rat on Sunday 10th February 19:22
That was possibly the funniest moment on a TR. What a great day, despite the weather and the grumps!Sorry officer. It wasn't my fault... it's just that... oh well
That journey home was one to remember!
Keep up the good work TR, your input and assistance is greatly appreciated
mark69sheer said:
I cannot complain at all about the sentiments above.
I guess public perception of policing is all about the direction the police are taking rather than the individual officers concerned.
Right now you are between a rock and a hard place. I have nothing negative to say about anyone who takes on the responsibility to deal with the misfits, thieves , criminals , murderers etc.
Of course now you are in a bad place , between public perception and government intervention. I can however see the corner approaching now that official reports are beginning to reflect the concerns we as public have felt for some time.
Unfortunately you will get people venting their spleens on here because in the 'democracy' we have in this country you would be no better dealing with the authorities than you would trying to put out a bonfire with a water pistol.
With basic human right of free speech being eroded at every step then the internet will remain at least for a short while the only place left to make ones feelings heard. You as Bib have even admitted that you don't even have the luxury as we have to tell your honest opinions.
I have noticed more and more Bib bashing threads. The recent thread about the police confiscating a vehicle due to a supposed invalid licence unfortunately shows why we as public are becoming fed up.
Yes it wasn't the fault of the police. The error was made by the DVLA but in the circumstance if dealing with any other organisation wouldn't you have expected them to do the following.
Apologise, waive the fees and spend their time and money getting the vehicle returned.
.. but thats another story.
Ditto.I guess public perception of policing is all about the direction the police are taking rather than the individual officers concerned.
Right now you are between a rock and a hard place. I have nothing negative to say about anyone who takes on the responsibility to deal with the misfits, thieves , criminals , murderers etc.
Of course now you are in a bad place , between public perception and government intervention. I can however see the corner approaching now that official reports are beginning to reflect the concerns we as public have felt for some time.
Unfortunately you will get people venting their spleens on here because in the 'democracy' we have in this country you would be no better dealing with the authorities than you would trying to put out a bonfire with a water pistol.
With basic human right of free speech being eroded at every step then the internet will remain at least for a short while the only place left to make ones feelings heard. You as Bib have even admitted that you don't even have the luxury as we have to tell your honest opinions.
I have noticed more and more Bib bashing threads. The recent thread about the police confiscating a vehicle due to a supposed invalid licence unfortunately shows why we as public are becoming fed up.
Yes it wasn't the fault of the police. The error was made by the DVLA but in the circumstance if dealing with any other organisation wouldn't you have expected them to do the following.
Apologise, waive the fees and spend their time and money getting the vehicle returned.
.. but thats another story.
There are a number of things going on here, sorry for the long post. Discuss:
I would describe myself as law abiding, hard working, honest, a good member of the community. I like to help people out. But then again, I probably break a speed limit every day. So there's the first problem - are all crimes equal? I never sell drugs, or steal, or carry a knife, or beat people up etc.
Think about yourself, does the same apply to you? I'd guess a large proportion of PH (both public and policepeople) would fall in the same category as me. Be honest with yourselves.
The police are the interface between us and the entire legal system, and most of us haven't been in court. So we tend to see the police as the entire system.
The media like to whip up anti-police feelings, anti legal-system feelings, in fact anything to make people's blood boil. And even intelligent well-meaning people find it hard to withstand media spin.
Some of the PH policepeople are very good at not biting back, and many don't post with the 'holier than thou' type of threads. But after a hard day at work, you're only human aren't you (?), you can be a bit 'direct'. This is usually when they aggrieved public get abusive.
Because the policepeople are allowed to exercise judgement, it's not fair to always just 'read the rule book' to us, helpful as it can be on PH. Sometimes, it's a judgement made by a human policeperson which has annoyed the poster, just as many won't post grievances because they've been let off with a warning. But please understand you don't just follow the rules, you have choices in what happens to people.
Not all crimes are equal, most (if not all?) people posting think driving without insurance is a very bad thing. But also that speed cameras are, too.
Now I'm not a celebrity and don't have a warrant card so if I get caught doing 37 in a 30, by a mobile van deliberately hidden behind an artic, it's going to annoy me a little. After 17 years with a clean licence. And meanwhile there's people dropping concrete off motorway bridges, and very little that can be done about it (because of the system, apparently).
You almost always get praise & support for tackling violent or deliberately premeditated criminal behaviour which might reasonably lead to harm to other people. In the other cases, saying 'you should have known' is not very constructive, especially if said in an 'I'm better than you' way.
It's hard to be fair and equal when moderating, I wouldn't want to try. Take for example a young lad called NickTheBassist who has the most cruel and disgusting slurs made against him, every time. Yet the threads remain open.
I appreciate what the police do, and I think the justice system is all wrong. From what I see & hear. Which is obviously almost all from the media. Murderers dropping concrete off motorway bridges, for example, deserve very severe penalties. Despite being a liberal, I hope 'justice' will prevail.
I know you can't condone reprisals, but I'd guess you're allowed to say that you personally find the law insufficent in such a case? Or change your PH login name to something more anonymous... why let your employer know what you're saying. (Hang on - Are we suggesting the authorities are monitoring policepeople's comments on PH? I suppose that will all go on your 'profile' when we all have ID cards, too? Heaven help us.)
It might be useful for the policepeople to pause, imagine how they'd feel, not take it too personally, and then try to give a constructive reply. Part of your job is to understand, mediate and control the situation. If you're really not free to say what you think, maybe you should try to think of PH as work and avoid throwing fuel on the fire.
And lastly, there have been some very pertinant comments about policepeople relying on DVLA databases, ANPR, speed detectors etc. We know this technology can help, but it shouldn't replace judgement. If a DVLA database is wrong, that might lead to a disappointed person (and his son) but the police should be apologizing on behalf of 'the system' (you're all the same to us, really!) and admitting on PH that it could have been handled better. Instead of winding the person up by reading the rule book.
I'm not sure what the answers are... but I enjoy PH a lot, I wish I'd been involved before corporate ownership reduced the quality because it must have been fantastic before
The Tuscan Rat said:
Silent1 said:
Look :pointstocar: just because i've done that, doesn't mean you can do that :pointstodonutmarks:
That was possibly the funniest moment on a TR.
Oli, That was possibly the funniest moment on a TR.Thankyou for reminding me of that moment in my life. Mine was a cold tyres, diesel on the road, wet drain cover moment. Where as the Z4 owner was a little to close to some very expensive motors spining his car on purpose. I blame Garlick if he had not let me go first out of that junction.
That's the downside to working nights so you can study for a CCIE.Sheriff JWPepper said:
Dibble said:
Sheriff JWPepper said:
Dibble said:
While we try and give good advice, and “tell it how it is”, we also have to be aware that our posts are not just monitored by others on PH, but by our respective discipline and complaints departments.
In fact, PetrolTed has previously been asked to identify some of us on an official basis.
In fact, PetrolTed has previously been asked to identify some of us on an official basis.
Tell us more DibsWhat I can tell you is that as a result of the posting, I had a "stand up meeting (without coffee)" with the BCU Chief Superintendent. Which was exactly as much fun as you'd expect.
Not really sure why, because at the end of the day none of us really know if those that say they are police officers are police officers and wouldn't know which force they work for, not often with station they work out of!
Anyway I think the input of BiB on this site is much appreciated, and I think it does actually boost respect for the Police.
!
parapaul said:
Dibble said:
What I can tell you is that as a result of the posting, I had a "stand up meeting (without coffee)" with the BCU Chief Superintendent. Which was exactly as much fun as you'd expect.
PMSL 
I've had meetings like that before.....sympathise fully!Still the good players give away a few penalties from time to time...
Chrisgr31 said:
What I can tell you is that as a result of the posting, I had a "stand up meeting (without coffee)" with the BCU Chief Superintendent. Which was exactly as much fun as you'd expect.
I had an article of mine printed in Police Review on the new course we were going to run at HQ training on how to retire early on an ill-health pension. To show what it was like, the programme was printed out and showed that Monday was given over to sick leave to allow those not familiar with the paperwork to gain experience and for those more used to milking the system not to be affronted by a requirement to work five whole days on the trot.I got quite severely criticised by the Federation because in their opinion (and mine) it took the mickey out of the seriously ill and I have to say that they were right and I apologised. A few days later I got called up to a Chief Super led tribunal to be criticised for encouraging people to go sick and for bringing the service in general, and the force specifically, into disrepute. This last despite the fact that I wrote under the pseudonym of Moriarty (from Moriatry's Police Law - I was showing that I'd got some in). I was then ordered to put all copy through the Chief Super before sending it off for consideration to any publication available to the public.
I did so as it allowed me to use the photocopying machine at work and, of course, I had to keep a copy for myself and a file copy. This went on for a while and the task was delegated to the Super's secretary who had the cheek to edit out a paragraph saying that it was too controvesial. I thanked her for her opinion and told her that it was the point of the article and to stick to typing.
I was called in to see the C.Super to be told not to send off the article. However, I'd told my Fed rep and he put the super stgraight. Unfortunately I lost the photocopying franchise. The article was not accepted.
A note was put on my P file to the effect that I could be 'difficult' to manage.
Ordinary Bloke said:
The police are the interface between us and the entire legal system, and most of us haven't been in court. So we tend to see the police as the entire system.
That's the biggest problem in my opinion, and I see it here all the time. The system is stuffed, the punishments trivial, the jails full and the crims have the system weighted in their favour. Our BiB is too busy filling in forms and chasing imaginary terrorists to do what he should be doing, interacting with the community.
That causes resentment and PH BiBs suffer because of it.
I don't ever really come in here because last time I started to look at it, I found every thread was a haven for bashing, and that whatever BiB would write, somewhere along the line it would be mis interpreted or poo poo'd. However this seemed to be down to a small number, and the majority I am sure were grateful for the input. I think you will find most BiB just post it as it is, without dressing it up. That's not to say that BiB agree with the system, but have no choice but to apply it none the less.
Derek Smith said:
A note was put on my P file to the effect that I could be 'difficult' to manage.
Thats effectively why I left the Civil Service. I was employed as a professional to do a professional role. Therefore I wasn't impressed to be told to do things I didn't professionally agree with. As I was outspoken with my comments my chances of promotion were negligble!Chrisgr31 said:
Derek Smith said:
A note was put on my P file to the effect that I could be 'difficult' to manage.
Thats effectively why I left the Civil Service. I was employed as a professional to do a professional role. Therefore I wasn't impressed to be told to do things I didn't professionally agree with. As I was outspoken with my comments my chances of promotion were negligble!Obviously I followed orders to the letter, but it didn’t say anything about Not to be shredded by anyone below the rank of ACPO.
Actually, I did just happen to glance at it. I’d had two interviews on the Countryman Enquiry but only as a witness. I’d found a getaway car for the Daily Mirror murder/payroll job that actually belonged to a Met sergeant. The note said something along the lines of that, while they had not managed to retrieve any concrete connection, the coincidence of having worked with [a Met who was as corrupt as they come] (but this was on a demo two years before. I’d helped him carry one of his injured PCs to an ambulance and he’d put in an official report of thanks. I was just pleased to be away from the front line for ten minutes) and my attitude led them to believe that I had not been fully honest with them.
‘Attitude’ was because I’d had a go at them. They were enquiring into 3 jobs; the Williams and Glynns robbery, the daily Mirror job and the Daily Telegraph payroll job, all of which had been facilitated by a firm within a firm of City of London and Met CID officers. I was, and always was, straight as a ruler. They use me to check lasers. I had, however, found the getaway car for the Mirror job and the van for the Telegraph one. The opening question on my interview was, “You found [the two vehicles]. How come you didn’t find the one for the Williams and Glynns robbery?” and with heavy sarcasm. My retort was, “Don’t be pathetic. They were two bits of excellent police work (and they were as well. Two in 30 years, not bad eh?) and I’m proud of them. Next stupid question.” The only reason I was cocky was that I knew I was straight. But, it seems, difficult.
julianc said:
Would you and all the other BiB please carry on posting!
Julian
I certainly shall for the foreseaable future.Julian
elswhere Dibble may also have said:
11 1/2 years in a largeish provincial force.
Done uniformed response, tutoring probationers, traffic, and currently on CID.
Never had a day off sick since I joined. I have been shouted/sworn at, pushed, slapped, punched, kicked, bitten, bled and vomited on.
I have been threatened with a variety of knives, syringes, various "sporting" items and firearms (imitation or not, I don't know. I didn't hang around).
I have had people try to run me over, been petrol bombed, rammed by vehicles and had domestic appliances from AAA batteries, through TVs and sofas, up to a side by side fridge freezer thrown/dropped on/near me.
I have saved people's lives, and held the hands of the dying. I have knocked on too many doors at 2.00am in the morning to deliver a "stiffogram".
This is neither a conclusive list, or exclusive to me. This is what Police Officers regularly experience on a day to day basis, which is why we often get pissed off when someone has a go with a keyboard, when we're trying to relax.
Done uniformed response, tutoring probationers, traffic, and currently on CID.
Never had a day off sick since I joined. I have been shouted/sworn at, pushed, slapped, punched, kicked, bitten, bled and vomited on.
I have been threatened with a variety of knives, syringes, various "sporting" items and firearms (imitation or not, I don't know. I didn't hang around).
I have had people try to run me over, been petrol bombed, rammed by vehicles and had domestic appliances from AAA batteries, through TVs and sofas, up to a side by side fridge freezer thrown/dropped on/near me.
I have saved people's lives, and held the hands of the dying. I have knocked on too many doors at 2.00am in the morning to deliver a "stiffogram".
This is neither a conclusive list, or exclusive to me. This is what Police Officers regularly experience on a day to day basis, which is why we often get pissed off when someone has a go with a keyboard, when we're trying to relax.
Dibble said:
I have been threatened with a variety of knives, syringes, various "sporting" items and firearms (imitation or not, I don't know. I didn't hang around).
I have had people try to run me over, been petrol bombed, rammed by vehicles and had domestic appliances from AAA batteries, through TVs and sofas, up to a side by side fridge freezer thrown/dropped on/near me.
You don't think you might be doing something wrong, do you?I have had people try to run me over, been petrol bombed, rammed by vehicles and had domestic appliances from AAA batteries, through TVs and sofas, up to a side by side fridge freezer thrown/dropped on/near me.
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