AskMID

[GC8]

I have it as a saved .pdf document on a PC I dont have access to currently. I'll post it when I do.

As others have said, the MIB database is a tool and not sufficient cause on its own. Ive seen many fly-on-the-wall police documentary programmes where the police officers involved have broken these guidelines, of course.

[funkyrobot]

According to the police last night, the vehicle that a disqualified driver wrote my car off with last week is still insured. But, according to my insurer's legal team (who are fking useless) the car isn't insured.

I would check AskMid but I don't own the car in question.

[Red Devil]

Rollcage said:

AIUI, the MID is only supposed to be an indication as to whether a vehicle is insured or not. A PC should carry out further checks to ascertain the facts, and if the facts are not verifiable for whatever reason then a producer issued.

Indeed , but with the very real risk of an accompanying seizure to go with it if the stop occurs late at night when BiB cannot reach insurers because their office is shut! That is the problem.

MID is a flawed tool unless updates are made compulsory, preferably in real time, together with criminal and financial penalties for non compliance. Its always the motorist who picks up the short straw in these situations, not the profit driven corporate world. The state just shrugs and congratulates itself on passing the legislation without ensuring the necessary behind-the-scenes infrastructure actually delivers.

For those who might suggest keeping the docs in the car. No way. The car gets nicked together with my insurance certificate. Great idea - NOT!

[ZOLLAR]

Red Devil said:

F i F said:

Red Devil said:

It's not right and it's high time that we had a system of checking fit for the 21st century.

Agreed, I said a long time ago that it's about time the insurance company were forced to have 24 hr contacts that can be spoken and manned by people with some authority and experience to deal with what may be awkward issues of whether the driver is on cover or not and not just some callc entre twonk in :- points >> to A N Other location which may be other than in UK.

+ 1.
If the insurance company had not updated MID, and due to their failure my car was seized by BiB, what do you think the prospects of success would be of taking them to court to recover any ensuing financial loss?

If it was the insurer's fault it hadn't been updated and your car was seized and crushed the insurer would be held liable ( we have regular training sessions where they use a real example).
also is there a possibility that "askmid" arn't updating it themselves quickly enough and insurer gets fined if they dont update within 7 days but what about mid is there a time period for them think of all the information from all the insurer's they receive??
With regards to the 24 hour contact thing good idea i agree but you have to make compromise you have to accept that to have 24 hour contact call centers may have to be placed abroad ( we have a team in canada!) or you accept that to have teams in a night (unsociable hours) they get a higher salary which of course will be passed on via insurance premiums.I wish it was 24 hour id be more than happy to work nights ( get the day to spend with my little boy then! )

[saaby93]

Red Devil said:

Rollcage said:

AIUI, the MID is only supposed to be an indication as to whether a vehicle is insured or not. A PC should carry out further checks to ascertain the facts, and if the facts are not verifiable for whatever reason then a producer issued.

Indeed , but with the very real risk of an accompanying seizure to go with it if the stop occurs late at night when BiB cannot reach insurers because their office is shut! That is the problem.

It's not BiB to worry about, it's the private companies roaming the streets tyring to earn a living. Wasnt there a thread a month or so back where a car had been lifted and off to the crusher?

Agree about keeping docs safely at home

[F i F]

GC8 said:

I have it as a saved .pdf document on a PC I dont have access to currently. I'll post it when I do.

As others have said, the MIB database is a tool and not sufficient cause on its own. Ive seen many fly-on-the-wall police documentary programmes where the police officers involved have broken these guidelines, of course.

including one where a West Mercia officer encountered a Czech driver and despite the insurance company saying that the driver was on cover PC tried very hard to persuade them that the driver was not on cover.

He failed and though the insurance company said they would have to have a discussion with the driver about the premium he was definitely on cover which pissed on the particular PC's chips.

No harm done as I consider him a bit of a cock anyway. (Bit of local knowledge outside of the TV prog tbh)

[Red Devil]

ZOLLAR said:

Red Devil said:

F i F said:

Red Devil said:

It's not right and it's high time that we had a system of checking fit for the 21st century.

Agreed, I said a long time ago that it's about time the insurance company were forced to have 24 hr contacts that can be spoken and manned by people with some authority and experience to deal with what may be awkward issues of whether the driver is on cover or not and not just some callc entre twonk in :- points >> to A N Other location which may be other than in UK.

+ 1.
If the insurance company had not updated MID, and due to their failure my car was seized by BiB, what do you think the prospects of success would be of taking them to court to recover any ensuing financial loss?

If it was the insurer's fault it hadn't been updated and your car was seized and crushed the insurer would be held liable ( we have regular training sessions where they use a real example).

Who said anything about crushing? Hypothetical example. My car is seized on Sunday evening in Newcastle. There are no trains to London at that time of night so I have to find a hotel. Then I have to get a return ticket to London to retrieve my insurance certificate. My employer won't pay me for unauthrised absence on the Monday so I lose a day's wages. On top of that I have the taxi fares to the police station for the producer then to the pound to retrive my vehicle. And we haven't even got to the recovery/storage charges yet. Are you saying the insurer would reimburse me for all of that? And if so would they do so promptly and without me having to fight over it?

ZOLLAR said:

also is there a possibility that "askmid" arn't updating it themselves quickly enough and insurer gets fined if they dont update within 7 days but what about mid is there a time period for them think of all the information from all the insurer's they receive??

Now I'm confused. I have no idea how the MID actually works or who does what. Frankly I don't care. This is the 21st century. It is not rocket science for insurers to have a data terminal for secure entry to a central database in real time. Alternatively use a similar system as DD holders have been doing for years with BACS submission data for collecting payments.

ZOLLAR said:

With regards to the 24 hour contact thing good idea i agree but you have to make compromise you have to accept that to have 24 hour contact call centers may have to be placed abroad ( we have a team in canada!) or you accept that to have teams in a night (unsociable hours) they get a higher salary which of course will be passed on via insurance premiums.I wish it was 24 hour id be more than happy to work nights ( get the day to spend with my little boy then! )

Without knowing how many enquiries BiB are making outside of office hours it is difficult to say what additional staffing levels would be required. As far as offshore call centres are concerned my personal experience of service industries in general has not been encouraging. One in particular, which I won't name, was apalling. The person taking my call could barely speak intelligible English.

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:06

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:07

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:09

[ZOLLAR]

Red Devil said:

ZOLLAR said:

Red Devil said:

F i F said:

Red Devil said:

It's not right and it's high time that we had a system of checking fit for the 21st century.

Agreed, I said a long time ago that it's about time the insurance company were forced to have 24 hr contacts that can be spoken and manned by people with some authority and experience to deal with what may be awkward issues of whether the driver is on cover or not and not just some callc entre twonk in :- points >> to A N Other location which may be other than in UK.

+ 1.
If the insurance company had not updated MID, and due to their failure my car was seized by BiB, what do you think the prospects of success would be of taking them to court to recover any ensuing financial loss?

If it was the insurer's fault it hadn't been updated and your car was seized and crushed the insurer would be held liable ( we have regular training sessions where they use a real example).

Who said anything about crushing? Hypothetical example. My car is seized on Sunday evening in Newcastle. There are no trains to London at that time of night so I have to find a hotel. Then I have to get a return ticket to London to retrieve my insurance certificate. My employer won't pay me for unauthrised absence on the Monday so I lose a day's wages. On top of that I have the taxi fares to the police station for the producer then to the pound to retrive my vehicle. And we haven't even got to the recovery/storage charges yet. Are you saying the insurer would reimburse me for all of that? And if so would they do so promptly and without me having to fight over it?

ZOLLAR said:

also is there a possibility that "askmid" arn't updating it themselves quickly enough and insurer gets fined if they dont update within 7 days but what about mid is there a time period for them think of all the information from all the insurer's they receive??

Now I'm confused. I have no idea how the MID actually works or who does what. Frankly I don't care. This is the 21st century. It is not rocket science for insurers to have a data terminal for secure entry to a central database in real time. Alternatively use a similar system as DD holders have been doing for years with BACS submission data for collecting payments.

ZOLLAR said:

With regards to the 24 hour contact thing good idea i agree but you have to make compromise you have to accept that to have 24 hour contact call centers may have to be placed abroad ( we have a team in canada!) or you accept that to have teams in a night (unsociable hours) they get a higher salary which of course will be passed on via insurance premiums.I wish it was 24 hour id be more than happy to work nights ( get the day to spend with my little boy then! )

Without knowing how many enquiries BiB are making outside of office hours it is difficult to say what additional staffing levels would be required. As far as offshore call centres are concerned my personal experience of service industries in general has not been encouraging. One in particular, which I won't name, was apalling. The person taking my call could barely speak intelligible English.

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:06

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:07

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:09

With regards to the crushing of the vehicle i know you didnt mention it i was giving you a worse case scenario, if you could prove that the insurer was at fault then yes you would have your costs met.
on the topic of abroad call centers i dont like them either but that is the way of the world and unfortunately its unlikely to change unless britain does some more invading and repopulates a country that is a good few hours ahead of us.

Edited by ZOLLAR on Friday 15th January 17:28

[Red Devil]

ZOLLAR said:

Red Devil said:

ZOLLAR said:

Red Devil said:

F i F said:

Red Devil said:

It's not right and it's high time that we had a system of checking fit for the 21st century.

Agreed, I said a long time ago that it's about time the insurance company were forced to have 24 hr contacts that can be spoken and manned by people with some authority and experience to deal with what may be awkward issues of whether the driver is on cover or not and not just some callc entre twonk in :- points >> to A N Other location which may be other than in UK.

+ 1.
If the insurance company had not updated MID, and due to their failure my car was seized by BiB, what do you think the prospects of success would be of taking them to court to recover any ensuing financial loss?

If it was the insurer's fault it hadn't been updated and your car was seized and crushed the insurer would be held liable ( we have regular training sessions where they use a real example).

Who said anything about crushing? Hypothetical example. My car is seized on Sunday evening in Newcastle. There are no trains to London at that time of night so I have to find a hotel. Then I have to get a return ticket to London to retrieve my insurance certificate. My employer won't pay me for unauthrised absence on the Monday so I lose a day's wages. On top of that I have the taxi fares to the police station for the producer then to the pound to retrive my vehicle. And we haven't even got to the recovery/storage charges yet. Are you saying the insurer would reimburse me for all of that? And if so would they do so promptly and without me having to fight over it?

ZOLLAR said:

also is there a possibility that "askmid" arn't updating it themselves quickly enough and insurer gets fined if they dont update within 7 days but what about mid is there a time period for them think of all the information from all the insurer's they receive??

Now I'm confused. I have no idea how the MID actually works or who does what. Frankly I don't care. This is the 21st century. It is not rocket science for insurers to have a data terminal for secure entry to a central database in real time. Alternatively use a similar system as DD holders have been doing for years with BACS submission data for collecting payments.

ZOLLAR said:

With regards to the 24 hour contact thing good idea i agree but you have to make compromise you have to accept that to have 24 hour contact call centers may have to be placed abroad ( we have a team in canada!) or you accept that to have teams in a night (unsociable hours) they get a higher salary which of course will be passed on via insurance premiums.I wish it was 24 hour id be more than happy to work nights ( get the day to spend with my little boy then! )

Without knowing how many enquiries BiB are making outside of office hours it is difficult to say what additional staffing levels would be required. As far as offshore call centres are concerned my personal experience of service industries in general has not been encouraging. One in particular, which I won't name, was apalling. The person taking my call could barely speak intelligible English.

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:06

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:07

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 17:09

With regards to the crushing of the vehicle i know you didnt mention it i was giving you a worse case scenario, if you could prove that the insurer was at fault then yes you would have your costs met.
on the topic of abroad call centers i dont like them either but that is the way of the world and unfortunately its unlikely to change unless britain does some more invading and repopulates a country that is a good few hours ahead of us.

Edited by ZOLLAR on Friday 15th January 17:28

Thanks. I hope I will never need it but I will save and print the first paragraph.
Quite how I prove it to the required standard is something else but it's a start.

We don't need to invade or repopulate, just take back America
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljo...
(substitute Gordy for Bliar and change a couple of dates)

Came across this
http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=Community&...
Check out the last 3 paragraphs. Shockingly poor response by the insurer.
Maybe the prospect of insurance company directors getting criminal records might focus the corporate mind.
That would be a piece of legislation I would support.

Edited by Red Devil on Friday 15th January 18:15

[F i F]

It's exactly as is being said on the continuous insurance thread that the source databases and the idatabases generated by download are insufficiently robust for the purposes which they are being relied upon.

Furthermore as somebody posted on my old (in)famous "Computer says No" thread:-

I've taxed my car, I've displayed the disc.
I've got the MOT done, I've presented the cert.
I've got insurance, I've presented the certificate.

I've done what I'm supposed to do! Why all the extra aggro due to authorities and agencies that can't get their act together

And then people wonder why the law abiding are alienated.

[Red Devil]

Here you go FiF, have one of these.



and one of these

[ymwoods]

Did anyone see on Police Interceptors (not this weeks, week before) where the old boy in his Micra didnt have MOT, insurance OR A LICENCE!!!?

Now, ok, he was REALLY old but his attitude was "so what, rules are silly" which is his act

They did take his car...and crushed it when he failed to turn up for it, but what about taking him to court for no insurance? points on his expired licence and a ban? If my attitude was "Rules are silly" I would fully expect to have the biggest boot shoved up my back-end, be banned and have a great big minus figure in my bank account for the next few years.

Since he was old we will just do away with the rules? No thanks, if anything he had been driving for longer, and if he really was that old he didnt understand the importance of rules I don't want him on the road to not understand what he has done when he smacks into my parked car and then drives off. Also, why the hell was he not picked up a hell of a lot sooner!

[Rollcage]

ymwoods said:

Did anyone see on Police Interceptors (not this weeks, week before) where the old boy in his Micra didnt have MOT, insurance OR A LICENCE!!!?

Now, ok, he was REALLY old but his attitude was "so what, rules are silly" which is his act

They did take his car...and crushed it when he failed to turn up for it, but what about taking him to court for no insurance? points on his expired licence and a ban? If my attitude was "Rules are silly" I would fully expect to have the biggest boot shoved up my back-end, be banned and have a great big minus figure in my bank account for the next few years.

Since he was old we will just do away with the rules? No thanks, if anything he had been driving for longer, and if he really was that old he didnt understand the importance of rules I don't want him on the road to not understand what he has done when he smacks into my parked car and then drives off. Also, why the hell was he not picked up a hell of a lot sooner!

Saw that. Interesting attitude!

Cant imagine that he didn't get prosecuted though. Nice little Nightfire Red Rover 100 as well!

[Noger]

funkyrobot said:

According to the police last night, the vehicle that a disqualified driver wrote my car off with last week is still insured. But, according to my insurer's legal team (who are fking useless) the car isn't insured.

I would check AskMid but I don't own the car in question.

Yes, as I think I have said before, insurers can't get out of liability that easily. So if they cancel a policy they still remain on MID until such time as they get the cert back.

Being on MID means that there is some insurance somewhere, that should pay out on a statutory basis, if not on a contractual basis. It doesn't mean that they "have insurance" legitimately.

If the vehicle is on MID there are only a very few ways that the insurer can duck it.

It is possible that the TP insurer is waiting for an unsatisfied judgement against the TP, by having that it enables them to pursue a recovery against the TP for the money they are forced to pay. Without that judgement they cannot.

[Meeja]

One week on and it still wasn't listed.

I'd had a "customer experience survey" email from my insurers... and I filled in the "Any extra comments" box asking the questions about ASKMid.

To be fair to the insurers, I recieved a call the following day telling me they had reviewed my feedback, and would ensure that it got sorted.

Four hours later, the car is listed as insured on ASKMid.

[mikezs]

The car I insured on Monday is on there now, so less than a week

[SVX]

Sorry for the thread resurrection - I'm having a problem with askMID myself.

I have an Admiral Multi-car policy, and for some reason one the cars, despite being perfectly insured it isn't appearing on the DVLA or askMID website when I'm trying to re-tax it.

Any idea who I should contact to get this resolved - I got a resounding "computer says no" from the customer helpline...

[fatjon]

Gibson70 said:

selwonk said:

It can take weeks I'm afraid.

Not true. If you call the insurance company today and it will be updated on ASKMID next day.

Sorted

Rubbish. If you call them today and they do it today it will be reflected instantly. If they are like mine it could be anywhere between instant and 5 weeks, as was the case with the last addition to my policy. Not at all a question of how often MID updates it's about how often your insurer updates it and some are very slack indeed.

[GC8]

Holy thread-resurrection Batman! I found the guidelines that I referred to a ouple of years back down this thread and they were from force, not the ACPO as I had thouht, although they do refer themselves to the ACPOs guidelines.