No Motor Vehicles Except for Access Sign?

No Motor Vehicles Except for Access Sign?

Author
Discussion

RV8

1,570 posts

170 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
I think the feeling varies on the road and between residents.

On my old road no one liked rat runners because most of them drove too fast and the vast majority of the time they either refused to reverse or simply couldn't reverse as when they did so mangled their cars against hedges and into walls... then the hoo haar starts with cars building up in both directions and a stale mate for everyone. The reaction you used to get from motorists was that apparently you should not make someone reverse if they don't know how. Which is most motorists these days.

I personally would have no objection except for having witnessed and been the victim of the self centered attitude of most motorists who can't drive properly spoiling the short cut for everyone so much that the residents feel the need to complain about these problems and the commuters get stopped. These problems I've mentioned are just the tip of the ice berg I know many others who've nearly being knocked flying when there is no pavement to get out of the way, I've literally stood flat against the wall to accommodate a motorist only to have a wing mirror smash my elbow rather than the driver waiting five meters where the road wasn't so narrow.

Before this I once lived down a no through road which was a narrow victorian street and blocked at one end, apart from wing mirrors being lost, which is deal-with-able, people on several occasions used my car and other residents rear quarters and doors as battering rams trying to turn around to make their way out rather than just reverse. My neighbor used to drive body shop courtesy cars more than his own, I just ended up putting up with a trashed car.


F i F

43,965 posts

250 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
F i F said:
What I have a problem with though is where a problem is identified, eg motorists pressing on in an inappropriate manner to race the other traffic,
If that happens (and it sounds unlikely)
Come off it saaby I know exactly the road I'm talking about didn't you read my post way back, must have done because you commented on it.

Traffic going down a 200yd long back street, terraces each side to avoid a TL. Of course they are going at inappropriate speed.

I agree that if the local road network gives a very viable next best alternative then the problem is just moved one street down. That isn't always the case though.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
I forgot FiF

RV8 said:
I think the feeling varies on the road and between residents.
On my old road no one liked rat runners because most of them drove too fast
Who decides what is too fast confused

screem

Original Poster:

763 posts

200 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
Vipers said:
If you have to enter a road with that sign, couldn't you plead you "Accessed" the road to reach the one the other end




smile
Probably but as said earlier, House hunting was "a good Answer", and in my opinion one that is impossible to dispute. If the road is only open to residents then how on earth will anybody ever sell their houses on this street?

Im in property so i know that when a good house hits a newspaper and its gone through the printing deadlines etc, its probably too late.

RV8

1,570 posts

170 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
I forgot FiF

RV8 said:
I think the feeling varies on the road and between residents.
On my old road no one liked rat runners because most of them drove too fast
Who decides what is too fast confused
I suppose people driving faster than their visibility or road conditions allow. It's fairly subjective, but I suppose when you are exposed to traffic you just 'know' what too fast for comfort is when they are inches from knocking you down, you can certainly read the level of comfort you feel from the speed of an approaching car if you have been hit by one in the past.

At the end of the day I don't expect everyone to agree with logic, some people are beyond redemption smile You can't rely on an officer being unprofessional and accepting your poor excuses, however smart you believe the excuse is, the chances are they will have heard it numerous times and eventually might not be feeling up to having the mickey taken out of a law they are there to uphold, on that occasion it might be you or the next guy they fine.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
RV8 said:
I suppose people driving faster than their visibility or road conditions allow. It's fairly subjective,
If I mention mean speeds i.e what most people think is safe for the conditions and road, do you think even that would be too high?

RV8 said:
At the end of the day I don't expect everyone to agree with logic, some people are beyond redemption smile You can't rely on an officer being unprofessional and accepting your poor excuses, however smart you believe the excuse is, the chances are they will have heard it numerous times and eventually might not be feeling up to having the mickey taken out of a law they are there to uphold,
no problem with the upholding the law, the question is - who chooses the signs ?

RV8

1,570 posts

170 months

Tuesday 30th March 2010
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
RV8 said:
I suppose people driving faster than their visibility or road conditions allow. It's fairly subjective,
If I mention mean speeds i.e what most people think is safe for the conditions and road, do you think even that would be too high?

RV8 said:
At the end of the day I don't expect everyone to agree with logic, some people are beyond redemption smile You can't rely on an officer being unprofessional and accepting your poor excuses, however smart you believe the excuse is, the chances are they will have heard it numerous times and eventually might not be feeling up to having the mickey taken out of a law they are there to uphold,
no problem with the upholding the law, the question is - who chooses the signs ?
It's not about number crunching, I can't really say what too high 'mean speed' would be, much depends on the width of the vehicle and the road too. If a car is doing the speed limit but it's a good few feet away from where I walked it didn't seem too fast, if it's almost running over your toes as it try's to get passed even 15mph will seem fast. I will add that in some scenarios the best action when driving is to stop and allow the pedestrian/s to find somewhere safer to move out of the way before you resume driving, in this instance any forward movement may be too fast for the person moving out of the way. I'm not going to justify it anymore than that though, if you've experienced being clobbered by a car you'd know better what I mean.

I'm not a road planner or councillor or on a community comity, you need to ask one of them I suppose as anything you get from me will be paraphrasing what I've already said.
I've mentioned before that not all roads which are access-only make sense, some don't, but arguing with the lameness of the sign doesn't make you or I or just anyone entitled to drive down that road. Making excuses is only delaying an inevitable fine, because even if the police don't take cumbrance with the regular users the residents might be keeping tabs of who is using the road and the manner in which they do.


Edited by RV8 on Tuesday 30th March 20:40

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Bit of a thread resurrection
Further to Screems initial post can those signs apply to a 'private road' ? or will they need a compliant TRO in place ? If so what if the TRO cannot be located ?
Also is the sign below just another blustery scaremongering one ?
On the post below I will attach a pic of the signs at either end.
One end of the road is close to a station and I have seen cars ticketed but I thought it would be council wardens now not police ? And can council wardens or police put a 'parking' or 'not complying with a traffic sign' TS 50 or TS70 notice on a car parked on a 'PRIVATE' road?
For info there are 200 other houses off the road on adopted roads with no other access except by using the private road.
That sign is by a layby fronting the largest plot of land, a country park owned by the local authority if it makes a difference.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Signs at either end of road
They state Highways act 1980 no public right of way. Road is a couple of hundred years old


Wooda80

1,743 posts

74 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Signpost said:
"No Motor Vehicles" "Except for Access" "But if you do, please don't go over 30"

hutchst

3,696 posts

95 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
Does it have a local shop? For local people?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
hutchst said:
Does it have a local shop? For local people?
No
Not sure what the point of Wooda80's post is?
See section E on the screen shot.
Is the speed limit on a private road enforcable by 50 different householders fronting the road.
It's either private or not. I'm assuming you can get a TRO on a private road ? Or all the signs and threats are meaningless like many others put up by people/organisations.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Tuesday 6th March 2018
quotequote all
Why all the 'secret squirrel' about the location? It wasn't hard to guess.
https://goo.gl/maps/48rtnh26sN92
https://goo.gl/maps/QkR8N3QLU5p

The document you posted the extract from is on a publicly accessible website.
http://www.wprua.talktalk.net/html/what_we_do.html

The Prohibition of Entry Order is fully legal and enforceable.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/46248/pa...

The UDC no longer exists. Its functions are now the responsibility of Cheshire East Council.

The Park itself is owned by the Council.
http://www.bollinvalley.org.uk/sites-and-trails/wi...

There is a lot of misunderstanding about private roads
See - http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The private bit in this case is all to do with maintenance.
Wilmslow Park North and Wilmslow Park South are unadopted.
https://maps.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ce/adoptedroadsga...
.
That does not automatically mean that the RTA doesn't apply.
The speed limit is likely to be enforceable. Obviously by the police not the Users Association.

Who enforces any parking restriction/prohibition? Don't know. Ask the LA.
It should have a copy of the original TRO and amendments thereto, if any.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 6th March 2018
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
Why all the 'secret squirrel' about the location? It wasn't hard to guess.
https://goo.gl/maps/48rtnh26sN92
https://goo.gl/maps/QkR8N3QLU5p

The document you posted the extract from is on a publicly accessible website.
http://www.wprua.talktalk.net/html/what_we_do.html
Nothing secret squirrel about it, just not blarting unnecessary info in unless required, I know the docs public etc many are.
Red Devil said:
The Prohibition of Entry Order is fully legal and enforceable.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/46248/pa...
Thanks,
Red Devil said:
The UDC no longer exists. Its functions are now the responsibility of Cheshire East Council.

The Park itself is owned by the Council.
http://www.bollinvalley.org.uk/sites-and-trails/wi...
All known and understood thanks, yeah CE hardly an authority that knows what it's doing in many areas irked Probably explains why works were carried out on the river bridge probably at great expense as 'council' owned/frontages rather than residents
Red Devil said:
There is a lot of misunderstanding about private roads
See - http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...
Noted read it and many of Louise's other docs a few times.
Red Devil said:
The private bit in this case is all to do with maintenance.
Wilmslow Park North and Wilmslow Park South are unadopted.
https://maps.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ce/adoptedroadsga...
Noted and already aware an interesting little tool.
Red Devil said:
That does not automatically mean that the RTA doesn't apply.
The speed limit is likely to be enforceable. Obviously by the police not the Users Association.
See the pic below similar sort of area and setup but just private road sign but a 15 MPH speed limit which is unusual/random, we have home made 5mph signs on an unadopted road near us.
Red Devil said:
Who enforces any parking restriction/prohibition? Don't know. Ask the LA.
It should have a copy of the original TRO and amendments thereto, if any.
I was going to ask them, but I wouldn't want them to put things in place they have messed up on wink
I am aware of many places with unlawful and unTRO'd roads and signage from past role and the problems encountered with unadopted roads etc.
I am already very well aware that CE record keeping and especially asset lists etc is in very poor order.
Thanks for the input Reddevil thumbup
It's quite interesting (or I'm very boring biggrin) how the old roads, tracks and tollbooths and gatehouses are dotted about the place.
It also reminded me of the other thread where the OP had maintainence responsibility on a track where 6 houses were proposed at the end.