Caught on redlight camera but already past the line

[shocker-z]

Hi all,

My work colleague was recently sent a letter stating she'd been caught going over a red light. She requested the images and received them but both photo's show her already past the line (clear by about 50cm) with lights on red.

Is this how they all come, i assumed it would show you not clear of the line and then clear of the line, to prove you went *over* while on red?

Thanks
Liam

[julian64]

shocker-z said:

Hi all,

My work colleague was recently sent a letter stating she'd been caught going over a red light. She requested the images and received them but both photo's show her already past the line (clear by about 50cm) with lights on red.

Is this how they all come, i assumed it would show you not clear of the line and then clear of the line, to prove you went *over* while on red?

Thanks
Liam

Going over on red's not the offence. Its being over on red thats wrong.

[shocker-z]

ohhh, I never knew that I always thought it was if you went over on red e.g. red light on (you've not cleared the line)... now you've cleared it and therefore ignored the signal.

Thanks for a quick reply

Liam

[SS2.]

The offence occurs if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line when the red light is showing ie it is not an offence to stop astride the line before they change, just so long as you don't move forward when they go red. Nor is it an offence to proceed across the junction with the red light showing, as long as it wasn't red [at any point] when the vehicle crossed the line (ignoring for a moment the fact that amber means the same as red if unsafe to stop, etc etc).

Are you sure that the vehicle is completely beyond the stop line in both pictures ?

[Puddenchucker]

Don't the photos usually have an elapsed time shown on them as well?

i.e. x.x number of seconds since the lights changed to red.

[skodamanpat]

So what happens if you are stuck over the line but with your wheels parked on the strips and then the lights go red and the traffic blocking the junction then clears?? If you proceed to clear the junction you get a ticket, if you stay where you are you get a ticket. Surely you should only get a ticket if the two seperate photos show the vehicle as actually moved?

[davepoth]

If the car is straddling the line, it must NOT move forwards at all, even creeping a tiny bit.

[tvrgit]

skodamanpat said:

So what happens if you are stuck over the line but with your wheels parked on the strips and then the lights go red and the traffic blocking the junction then clears?? If you proceed to clear the junction you get a ticket

Yes

skodamanpat said:

if you stay where you are you get a ticket

No

skodamanpat said:

Surely you should only get a ticket if the two seperate photos show the vehicle as actually moved?

Yes

[simoid]

julian64 said:

Going over on red's not the offence. Its being over on red thats wrong.

I think you should probably ell whoever told you that to stop telling people that.

[saaby93]

simoid said:

julian64 said:

Going over on red's not the offence. Its being over on red thats wrong.

I think you should probably tell whoever told you that to stop telling people that.

+1
I saw someone do a U turn at lights once and get flashed by the camera that must have thought they'd come through on red the other way.
Surely it's not possible to convict unless the photo can show crossing of the line while the lights on red ?
Although a photo just before the line on red and another just after would be pretty conclusive.
In the OPs case if they have two photos past the lights and after the lights changed to red, surely(2) that's normal practice and not illegal?

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 9th March 00:36

[julian64]

simoid said:

julian64 said:

Going over on red's not the offence. Its being over on red thats wrong.

I think you should probably ell whoever told you that to stop telling people that.

I guess the ticket I got from a red light camera from being completely stationary over a red red light because of police car was a total mistake then.

Furthermore when I tried to challenge it by saying I was stationary and had moved out to let the car through while on green (way forward was not clear due to a queue) and was told the above, they didn't know what they were talking about.


Okkkaaaaayyyy then. Why not try it on your journey home tonight then and report back in two weeks.

Or better still why not take on the ops case cos they've obviously got it wrong with him as well.

[SS2.]

julian64 said:

I guess the ticket I got from a red light camera from being completely stationary over a red red light because of police car was a total mistake then.

Furthermore when I tried to challenge it by saying I was stationary and had moved out to let the car through while on green (way forward was not clear due to a queue) and was told the above, they didn't know what they were talking about.

If you came to be stationary and astride the line before the lights changed to red, and remained stationary whilst the lights were showing red, then no offence was committed.

The offence only occurs if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line when the red light is showing.

If you were stationary throughout the red cycle, then it sounds like you were mugged.

Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 9th March 08:43

[SVTRick]

Caught in A Red LIght district eh ........
Explain that to your Misses, Girlfriend / Boyfriend

[saaby93]

SS2. said:

If you were stationary throughout the red cycle, then it sounds like you were mugged.

It does happen
A mate a while back was stopped waiting to turn right at the centre of a junction. The lights turned red he completed his manoeuvre. And was pulled by an officer queued the other way.
It went to mags who came to same conclusion
At that point he decided it was pointless arguing further and took it on the chin. 3 points and fine .

[simoid]

julian64 said:

I guess the ticket I got ... was a total mistake then.

Furthermore when I tried to challenge it ... they didn't know what they were talking about.

So you just said "OK, here's my money"?

julian64 said:

Or better still why not take on the ops case cos they've obviously got it wrong with him as well.

If the photographs show his colleague in the same place then that is not evidence of an offence, as has been said.

However, if any part of the car has crossed the line on red... I'm sure you know the rest

[TOPTON]

saaby93 said:

t does happen
A mate a while back was stopped waiting to turn right at the centre of a junction. The lights turned red he completed his manoeuvre. And was pulled by an officer queued the other way.
It went to mags who came to same conclusion
At that point he decided it was pointless arguing further and took it on the chin. 3 points and fine .

I am guessing you mean he had passed the stop line on green and was waiting after the line to turn when traffic allowed it.

If this was the case then he should have argued more as that is a completely legal manoeuvre.
I was pulled for doing exactly that whilst with a learner on a lesson. She moved off to the right as the lights changed to red stopping oncoming traffic. 2 BiB in a transit type van on our left pulled us over and accused me/us of going through a red light. He said---
"both me and my collegue have just witnessed you going through a red light"

When I explained that if he was going to pull people over for traffic infringements, then he should know the law better. His comment was---
"We aren't going to do you this time for it, just be more careful in the future"

I got back to my car thinking, be more careful of what, doing things correctly!!!!

[saaby93]

TOPTON said:

saaby93 said:

It does happen
A mate a while back was stopped waiting to turn right at the centre of a junction. The lights turned red he completed his manoeuvre. And was pulled by an officer queued the other way.
It went to mags who came to same conclusion
At that point he decided it was pointless arguing further and took it on the chin. 3 points and fine .

I am guessing you mean he had passed the stop line on green and was waiting after the line to turn when traffic allowed it.

If this was the case then he should have argued more as that is a completely legal manoeuvre.

Yep he knew that, we all know that.
But there comes a point where you need to get on with your life

ETA: The mag even told him that he understood his predicament but should have stayed there blocking the junction until the lights changed to green again.
Similar to julian64 above?

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 9th March 14:05

[Sa Calobra]

Today I stopped on amber -to-red but the front wheels were just over the white line. Is this ok?

Once stationary I didn't move at all beyond that.

[SS2.]

Sa Calobra said:

Today I stopped on amber -to-red but the front wheels were just over the white line. Is this ok?

Once stationary I didn't move at all beyond that.

That's fine.

[4040vision]

simoid said:

julian64 said:

I guess the ticket I got ... was a total mistake then.

Furthermore when I tried to challenge it ... they didn't know what they were talking about.

So you just said "OK, here's my money"?

julian64 said:

Or better still why not take on the ops case cos they've obviously got it wrong with him as well.

If the photographs show his colleague in the same place then that is not evidence of an offence, as has been said.

However, if any part of the car has crossed the line on red... I'm sure you know the rest

A red light camera will not trigger unless the vehicle is in motion. The camera cannot trigger if the vehicle, already over the line but stationary when the lights change remains motionless.
So in julian64's case someone was mistaken, I figure it is him.