40k for a Caterham, worth buying new?
Discussion
Another angle for this is to buy a used car with a spec that you 'think' you want and then take the lessons learned from that ownership into your new car purchase after a year or so.
I fairly recently bought my first Caterham (a new car) and while I dont regret items I ordered, there are a few things id have wished id known about. Some are more useful than others and I think I would include a couple of other items if I bought again.
I fairly recently bought my first Caterham (a new car) and while I dont regret items I ordered, there are a few things id have wished id known about. Some are more useful than others and I think I would include a couple of other items if I bought again.
There's no point wanting a balls-out mega experience and then fitting the windscreen, doors and carpet. It's like ordering a red hot curry and then eating it smothered with cooling yogurt.
Get rid of the screen, doors and carpet, put an aeroscreen on and then laugh when other people say their M235i's are quick and 'an experience'.
Get rid of the screen, doors and carpet, put an aeroscreen on and then laugh when other people say their M235i's are quick and 'an experience'.
REALIST123 said:
tight fart said:
I still leave the screen fitted for road use, much prefer it.
You need both IMO. Screen and hood or half hood for road, especially when weather not at its best, Aeroscreen for track. I agree with the previous comments that this one seems to want to meet all the needs. It has to be a total power monster but have full weather kit. Hmm. If you want. But you won't, once you start living with it.
Finally, there is no such thing as a "standard" 7 spec, and everything is up for grabs. You will change your mind, you will change things. That's fine.
HypeM135i said:
Now that's one in the back left is lovely, beautiful colour too. What age was that, and how does it differ from the latest models. This is the only thing I am finding confusing, is the fact Caterham have so many models, at some many ages and specs it's just incredibly difficult to know what to go for!?
Very similar colour scheme to mine. Blue with white stripes is the way to go! 
HypeM135i said:
Don't you get stones and so on in your face though? Apparently if you get the £1550 option all weather gear you can chop and change as you like
When I bought my kit, the 'standard' was the Aeroscreen. It was something like £1200 odd for weather gear; that included screen, hood sticks, hood and doors and possibly wipers.
Choosing the weather gear dropped the Aeroscreen, which I bought later for some silly price, £700 or so incl 3 carbon mirrors and the captive nut bars.
Are you saying you can have both options for £1550? If so, go for it. Once all fitted its a10 min changeover.
The point being, in my opinion, is that once you've tried the car with an aeroscreen it's very hard to go back to full screen and doors. The car feels far more enclosed, noticeably slower and the experience is diluted.
In my view the jump from regular tin top to Caterham is the same forward leap going from screen & doors to full aero. It absolute transforms the car.
In my view the jump from regular tin top to Caterham is the same forward leap going from screen & doors to full aero. It absolute transforms the car.
I think the aero is important on track, the car definitely feels quicker at higher speeds.
On the road, screen and doors has so many advantages, IMO, it's the choice every time. Less buffeting, no worries about being hit in face by an errant bee, cockpit retains heat better.
Screen drag isn't an issue at road speeds and if you do get caught in the rain, the hood can be on in a few minutes.
On the road, screen and doors has so many advantages, IMO, it's the choice every time. Less buffeting, no worries about being hit in face by an errant bee, cockpit retains heat better.
Screen drag isn't an issue at road speeds and if you do get caught in the rain, the hood can be on in a few minutes.
HypeM135i said:
Don't you get stones and so on in your face though? Apparently if you get the £1550 option all weather gear you can chop and change as you like
Personally wouldn't drive an aero car without a helmet on - and you do look a bit of a berk. A Brooklands screen might be a sensible half way house, but you'd still need eye protection.You need both. Get the interchangeable set up would be my advice. On road, I never use aero. On track I always use aero - but only if it's dry. Easy 10 min job to swap, so why not have it? Will also make resale easier as the aero only set up seems to appeal to a more limited group of potential buyers.
I've got a car very similar to what you're spec'ing, a few thoughts (mostly just echoing what people have already said):
- I have both the aero screen and weather equipment (and tonneau cover), and use all of them regularly. Normal screen for road use, aero for track. I have used the aero on road with just sunglasses, but honestly it's a bit of a pain in the ass. I find it actually takes away from the experience rather than adds to it as it just batters you with too much wind when not wearing a helmet.
- 5 vs. 6 speed. In general the 6 speed would be considered the "more aggressive" choice, the 5 the "touring" choice. As someone said above, the torque of the duratec may well mean that the 5 speed is actually quicker, but if what you're looking for is an involved driving experience, I think you'd be happier with the 6. Though do be aware it can mean that high speeds can become a bit draining 85mph is around 4500rpm in 6th iirc, where 5th on the 5 speed box is actually a higher gear.
- New vs. used. The reality is that the vast majority of Caterhams are bought by real enthusiasts (i have no idea how you'd end up with one if you weren't), and generally those people take care of their cars, know them well, and are honest about them. Of course you can never know exactly what's happened to a car, but it's one of the easiest cars to look over and see if anything is wrong (and of course there are specialists who will do it for you). The nature of them means that irrelevant of whether you buy new or used, there are going to be things you want to tweak over the first few years. The real advantages of new is just that it saves you time/hassle finding the right car, you don't have to compromise on spec, and of course there is some satisfaction from having something from new.
- The roller barrel throttle bodies are absolutely awesome on an R400, but I'd recommend getting the car initially without them, then if at some point you fancy making it even more awesome, you can add them at a later date. The cost to have them on the car from new, vs. have it upgraded later is pretty similar.
- Colours... of course this is very much a personal preference thing, but I take the view that whatever you do to a Caterham, it's never going to be a subtle car, so if you've ever wanted something in a larey colour, now's the time to do it. The other thing to consider is that for other road users, a Caterham can be a bit hard to see (particularly in mirrors, blind spots etc), so anything that helps them not to miss it (such as being a super bright colour), can't be a bad thing.
I'm sure there's lots of other bits of advice that I can pass on, will have a think... Any other questions you have?
- I have both the aero screen and weather equipment (and tonneau cover), and use all of them regularly. Normal screen for road use, aero for track. I have used the aero on road with just sunglasses, but honestly it's a bit of a pain in the ass. I find it actually takes away from the experience rather than adds to it as it just batters you with too much wind when not wearing a helmet.
- 5 vs. 6 speed. In general the 6 speed would be considered the "more aggressive" choice, the 5 the "touring" choice. As someone said above, the torque of the duratec may well mean that the 5 speed is actually quicker, but if what you're looking for is an involved driving experience, I think you'd be happier with the 6. Though do be aware it can mean that high speeds can become a bit draining 85mph is around 4500rpm in 6th iirc, where 5th on the 5 speed box is actually a higher gear.
- New vs. used. The reality is that the vast majority of Caterhams are bought by real enthusiasts (i have no idea how you'd end up with one if you weren't), and generally those people take care of their cars, know them well, and are honest about them. Of course you can never know exactly what's happened to a car, but it's one of the easiest cars to look over and see if anything is wrong (and of course there are specialists who will do it for you). The nature of them means that irrelevant of whether you buy new or used, there are going to be things you want to tweak over the first few years. The real advantages of new is just that it saves you time/hassle finding the right car, you don't have to compromise on spec, and of course there is some satisfaction from having something from new.
- The roller barrel throttle bodies are absolutely awesome on an R400, but I'd recommend getting the car initially without them, then if at some point you fancy making it even more awesome, you can add them at a later date. The cost to have them on the car from new, vs. have it upgraded later is pretty similar.
- Colours... of course this is very much a personal preference thing, but I take the view that whatever you do to a Caterham, it's never going to be a subtle car, so if you've ever wanted something in a larey colour, now's the time to do it. The other thing to consider is that for other road users, a Caterham can be a bit hard to see (particularly in mirrors, blind spots etc), so anything that helps them not to miss it (such as being a super bright colour), can't be a bad thing.
I'm sure there's lots of other bits of advice that I can pass on, will have a think... Any other questions you have?
Personally I would buy a cheaper car and live with it for a while to make sure its what you really want. Was talking to a bloke recently who went from a R300 to a academy, he reckoned his lap times were still similar and what was the point in having a £22k car sitting in the garage when an £11k car done the same job!
Yes it will feel a lot different to your M235i, the driving experience is what there all about but wait till your out on a nice sunny day and you get caught in traffic, then your really feel the difference, sitting in a Caterham is akin to sitting in a slow cooker! Hence the buy cheap and live with it a while, £40k is a lot of cash to spend on something that is Nirvana on a certain day, a certain road in certain weather and when the planets are in alignment!
Yes it will feel a lot different to your M235i, the driving experience is what there all about but wait till your out on a nice sunny day and you get caught in traffic, then your really feel the difference, sitting in a Caterham is akin to sitting in a slow cooker! Hence the buy cheap and live with it a while, £40k is a lot of cash to spend on something that is Nirvana on a certain day, a certain road in certain weather and when the planets are in alignment!
If your going to use your seven mainly on the road, then you won't need masses of power, and it will still be a completely different and exciting experience to your M235i. I find with quick modern cars, to actually have fun driving it on the road, you end up doing silly speeds because you don't feel the speed. Then when you realise how fast you are actually going, your brain tells you that your being an idiot, so you slow down, and then that's the fun gone.
With a 7 it's completely different. I've got a 140bhp sigma engined supersport car. If your going to be using it mainly on the road, you probably won't need much more power than that. As a 7 owner, you are always tinkering, or thinking of the next upgrade. I have a windscreen and an Aeroscreen. Aeroscreen is a must on track. I use mine on the road too with sunglasses as it really adds to the experience. I took a mate out recently in mine with the Aeroscreen on. Went for a blast and said to him, how fast were we going then? He guessed 140mph. We were actually doing 80! You can have so much fun without doing silly speeds. My wife loves the car too, but refuses to go in it without the windscreen and doors. It's a 10 minute job to swap over, so no problem. If I was going on a long journey somewhere, then I would prefer full screen too. But for an absolute blast, then aero wins every time!
I love my 7, it's an amazing car. I have only wished for more power when using it on track. Not because of enjoyment. Only because on a track day, you cannot overtake in a corner, where you are faster than most other cars. You can only overtake on the straight. Where in a low powered 7, you sometimes can't get passed if the other car doesn't lift off enough! Then you have to dawdle around following them through the next set of corners, where if you were in front, then you would probably be 5 or 6 seconds a lap faster!
I would go and have a proper drive in a lower powered seven first. It might be all that you imagined a 7 would be, and save you 10k at the same time!
With a 7 it's completely different. I've got a 140bhp sigma engined supersport car. If your going to be using it mainly on the road, you probably won't need much more power than that. As a 7 owner, you are always tinkering, or thinking of the next upgrade. I have a windscreen and an Aeroscreen. Aeroscreen is a must on track. I use mine on the road too with sunglasses as it really adds to the experience. I took a mate out recently in mine with the Aeroscreen on. Went for a blast and said to him, how fast were we going then? He guessed 140mph. We were actually doing 80! You can have so much fun without doing silly speeds. My wife loves the car too, but refuses to go in it without the windscreen and doors. It's a 10 minute job to swap over, so no problem. If I was going on a long journey somewhere, then I would prefer full screen too. But for an absolute blast, then aero wins every time!
I love my 7, it's an amazing car. I have only wished for more power when using it on track. Not because of enjoyment. Only because on a track day, you cannot overtake in a corner, where you are faster than most other cars. You can only overtake on the straight. Where in a low powered 7, you sometimes can't get passed if the other car doesn't lift off enough! Then you have to dawdle around following them through the next set of corners, where if you were in front, then you would probably be 5 or 6 seconds a lap faster!
I would go and have a proper drive in a lower powered seven first. It might be all that you imagined a 7 would be, and save you 10k at the same time!
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