K-Series powered 7 – won’t start
Discussion
Hi Bertbert
Yes, that's right I have sparks at each plug, and fuel seems to be getting into each pot (each plug is wet when removed).
What I don't know is the timing of the spark and the injectors - I guess with a standard MEMS ECU there is no way to tell without the Rover diagnostic equipment?
I've not checked the compression, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be at least good enough to get it running, as the engine didn't go bang - and I think it would at least try to fire on a couple of cylinders if not all 4. I also know the history of the engine, as I've had it from new and it's always looked after.
I don't know anyone with an Emarald unfortunately.
Yes, that's right I have sparks at each plug, and fuel seems to be getting into each pot (each plug is wet when removed).
What I don't know is the timing of the spark and the injectors - I guess with a standard MEMS ECU there is no way to tell without the Rover diagnostic equipment?
I've not checked the compression, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be at least good enough to get it running, as the engine didn't go bang - and I think it would at least try to fire on a couple of cylinders if not all 4. I also know the history of the engine, as I've had it from new and it's always looked after.
I don't know anyone with an Emarald unfortunately.
Is it possible that the sensor ring (I'm assuming a slotted disk type arrangement on the crank) could have moved - again I have no k-series specific knowledge. A simple timing light should allow you to verify the spark is happening at the right time?
Logically I'd think that the remaining options are a mistimed spark, or sufficiently too much fuel that it's not combustible (given the plugs are wet).
Logically I'd think that the remaining options are a mistimed spark, or sufficiently too much fuel that it's not combustible (given the plugs are wet).
Sorry for throwing ideas at you!
Right, you mentioned distributor cap. I (my mom) used to have a 1995 mazda 323 - from S.A. It had carbon HT leads that failed, were replaced by copper HT leads, this then lead to the condensor within the distributor failing. After ages we figured out what it was, and replaced the leads and condensor, all sorted!
If I remember correctly there was a small spark, but not enough to fire.
(Comment about cambelt / compression removed, you have checked cambelt.)
Are you getting a smell of petrol out the back?
Not ideal, but I have had success tow starting a car that was being a pig to start, 2nd gear at 30mph tends to get things moving!
No blown fuses? Anti dieseling cut-off valve working (delete that if fuel injection)?
Right, you mentioned distributor cap. I (my mom) used to have a 1995 mazda 323 - from S.A. It had carbon HT leads that failed, were replaced by copper HT leads, this then lead to the condensor within the distributor failing. After ages we figured out what it was, and replaced the leads and condensor, all sorted!
If I remember correctly there was a small spark, but not enough to fire.
(Comment about cambelt / compression removed, you have checked cambelt.)
Are you getting a smell of petrol out the back?
Not ideal, but I have had success tow starting a car that was being a pig to start, 2nd gear at 30mph tends to get things moving!
No blown fuses? Anti dieseling cut-off valve working (delete that if fuel injection)?
Silly one, but have you checked that the inertia switch hasn't popped and needs resetting? Did you happen to drive over a big bump/jolt before the engine cut out? Mind I think that cuts the fuel pump which you say is running, but worth a check for the sake of 10 seconds.
Thread below might have something to offer (inertia switch & crank sensors etc)?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As before, if it doesn't start with easy start etc then it's not a fuel problem.
It cranks over without munching the engine so it doesn't sound like a timing/mechanical/hydrolic'd problem
I take it the tb butterfly opens and closes so you're getting air to it?
Fuel, air and spark all present with a decent battery but doesn't start. If it is sparking then even if it doesn't start, you would still get some coughing if you took the air filter off and sprayed easy start into it . Fuel/air/spark = bang regardless. And you say you've tried this? If it doesn't bang then it's the spark as you have fuel and air (unless it is being flooded for some reason)
All four HT leads would need to fail at the same instant for it to be them (if it were one or two then your would get a misfire rather than a dead engine)
Sensor inputs are:
Throttle pot
Air temp
Water temp
Oil temp
O2 sensor
Crank sensor
Engine will start/run (albeit not well) with most of those not functioning. Apart from the crank sensor.
For the crank sensor to work you need a functioning sensor and a powered up ecu. Check - fuse/ignition circuit/alarm/immobiliser/proper earth and then the circuit completing to the spark plugs.
Pin 8 on MFRU output plug is ecu power supply, Pins 1 on MFRU input plug is ecu relay control. All of the other pins deal with fuel/starter.
If you pm me your email I can send you the electrical section from the manual of you don't have it.
Thread below might have something to offer (inertia switch & crank sensors etc)?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As before, if it doesn't start with easy start etc then it's not a fuel problem.
It cranks over without munching the engine so it doesn't sound like a timing/mechanical/hydrolic'd problem
I take it the tb butterfly opens and closes so you're getting air to it?
Fuel, air and spark all present with a decent battery but doesn't start. If it is sparking then even if it doesn't start, you would still get some coughing if you took the air filter off and sprayed easy start into it . Fuel/air/spark = bang regardless. And you say you've tried this? If it doesn't bang then it's the spark as you have fuel and air (unless it is being flooded for some reason)
All four HT leads would need to fail at the same instant for it to be them (if it were one or two then your would get a misfire rather than a dead engine)
Sensor inputs are:
Throttle pot
Air temp
Water temp
Oil temp
O2 sensor
Crank sensor
Engine will start/run (albeit not well) with most of those not functioning. Apart from the crank sensor.
For the crank sensor to work you need a functioning sensor and a powered up ecu. Check - fuse/ignition circuit/alarm/immobiliser/proper earth and then the circuit completing to the spark plugs.
Pin 8 on MFRU output plug is ecu power supply, Pins 1 on MFRU input plug is ecu relay control. All of the other pins deal with fuel/starter.
If you pm me your email I can send you the electrical section from the manual of you don't have it.
K series are very unfussy, if they have sparks and timing they will start if you just throw fuel in the air intake. I did this when my 7 (1.4 kss) dropped its fuel pump, it started perfectly and ran for a second or two until the fuel ran out. At least then you know it is fuel that's at fault.
Thanks for all the replies..
I bought a can of ‘Easy start’, and it still wouldn’t fire. I guess that rules out a fuel or injector switching problem.
Yes, I’ve checked the inertia switch.
I was driving on a smooth road when it cut out.
Yes, the butterfly opens fine.
I’m now thinking maybe it is the ECU is on the blink – causing it to spark at the wrong time. I do have a spare, but as the ECU and alarm module need to be matched, I’ll have to get it reprogrammed.
I bought a can of ‘Easy start’, and it still wouldn’t fire. I guess that rules out a fuel or injector switching problem.
Yes, I’ve checked the inertia switch.
I was driving on a smooth road when it cut out.
Yes, the butterfly opens fine.
ben5575 said:
If you pm me your email I can send you the electrical section from the manual of you don't have it.
Thanks, I’ll send you a pm..I’m now thinking maybe it is the ECU is on the blink – causing it to spark at the wrong time. I do have a spare, but as the ECU and alarm module need to be matched, I’ll have to get it reprogrammed.
Edited by dave7 on Friday 31st March 12:31
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