LHD kit for france
Discussion
Bonjour everyone,
Can I pick your experienced Caterham brains please...
I now live in the south west of France and fancy building a new LHD kit (the 270 sigma), and would like to register it here. I'd be happy to trailer it back for the IVA etc as needed, so I've contacted Caterham UK and asked about the logistics and have had the reply that it is not possible due to a lack of a 'certificate of conformity'. I would have to buy a factory built LHD car from a dealer in France, which I don't really want to do as they are silly money, and like the idea of building a kit.
- So what is different about a fully built factory LHD car that makes it ok?
- Is there a way 'around' the system?
- If I built a LHD car in the UK, and registered it in the UK, would I then be prohibited from re-registering it in France? (I think if any UK car (eg Golf/Audi) is in the EU for 6 months or longer, it should be re-registered.)
Thanks in advance for any advice...
Can I pick your experienced Caterham brains please...
I now live in the south west of France and fancy building a new LHD kit (the 270 sigma), and would like to register it here. I'd be happy to trailer it back for the IVA etc as needed, so I've contacted Caterham UK and asked about the logistics and have had the reply that it is not possible due to a lack of a 'certificate of conformity'. I would have to buy a factory built LHD car from a dealer in France, which I don't really want to do as they are silly money, and like the idea of building a kit.
- So what is different about a fully built factory LHD car that makes it ok?
- Is there a way 'around' the system?
- If I built a LHD car in the UK, and registered it in the UK, would I then be prohibited from re-registering it in France? (I think if any UK car (eg Golf/Audi) is in the EU for 6 months or longer, it should be re-registered.)
Thanks in advance for any advice...
Try reading the Sevener website (in French) for stories of the fun process that is getting a non-factory built car registered in France. Similar problems arise when importing a UK built kit and certain of the factory builds as you'll see that not all of the Caterham range is provided by the French importers. There is a reason for the big price difference between French and UK registered Caterhams.
Using the Sevener site is a good start - great bunch and very knowledgeable. If French not your thing then Google translate is your friend.....
The deal on this nonsense lies with the French importer and a 'binding' agreement with Caterham (which could change post Brexit.....ho hum?). Bottom line is that if buyers in U.K. could build factory spec cars in lhd then the price differential (against French cars for example) would be significant i.e. Undercut French pricing. That said, in Switzerland, for example, early caterhams (pre '95?) are sought in rhd as they are 'dans son jus' (original spec) - very English. The later caterhams not so much. It's a bit like the Japanese loving early original lhd mercs and bmws......original spec.
I gave up trying to register my car in France after a decade (and our actual bricks and mortar home is in France....) so kept it rhd and mot'd etc in UK each year. Now I'm in Switzerland, and after some straight forward but lengthy procedures, the car is now fully Swiss registered......official with carte de Grise (v5) etc. Go figure (considering it's a lovely original but noisy 1700 super sprint......so many told me it couldn't be done.....et voila
)
The daft thing is that even with a rhd car I can pop to the Maire (admin office) in France now and register it directly from the Suisse papers as its now EU registered (and the swiss MFK/MOT is very stringent).
I will probably be looking at converting it to lhd though as we will be resting up somewhere in Europe in a few years. So will be asking Bruce at Arch if he can do the work.....and maybe look at replacing the interior too with a different colour (red leather rather than blue....?)
If you want any advice on the lhd/French thing happy to help. Posted a bit on blatchat and sevener over the years (Wile7) or PM me via PH messaging.
Dave
The deal on this nonsense lies with the French importer and a 'binding' agreement with Caterham (which could change post Brexit.....ho hum?). Bottom line is that if buyers in U.K. could build factory spec cars in lhd then the price differential (against French cars for example) would be significant i.e. Undercut French pricing. That said, in Switzerland, for example, early caterhams (pre '95?) are sought in rhd as they are 'dans son jus' (original spec) - very English. The later caterhams not so much. It's a bit like the Japanese loving early original lhd mercs and bmws......original spec.
I gave up trying to register my car in France after a decade (and our actual bricks and mortar home is in France....) so kept it rhd and mot'd etc in UK each year. Now I'm in Switzerland, and after some straight forward but lengthy procedures, the car is now fully Swiss registered......official with carte de Grise (v5) etc. Go figure (considering it's a lovely original but noisy 1700 super sprint......so many told me it couldn't be done.....et voila
)The daft thing is that even with a rhd car I can pop to the Maire (admin office) in France now and register it directly from the Suisse papers as its now EU registered (and the swiss MFK/MOT is very stringent).
I will probably be looking at converting it to lhd though as we will be resting up somewhere in Europe in a few years. So will be asking Bruce at Arch if he can do the work.....and maybe look at replacing the interior too with a different colour (red leather rather than blue....?)
If you want any advice on the lhd/French thing happy to help. Posted a bit on blatchat and sevener over the years (Wile7) or PM me via PH messaging.
Dave
Edited by wile7 on Sunday 23 April 08:02
wile7 said:
...........
The daft thing is that even with a rhd car I can pop to the Maire (admin office) in France now and register it directly from the Suisse papers as its now EU registered (and the swiss MFK/MOT is very stringent).
I will probably be looking at converting it to lhd though as we will be resting up somewhere in Europe in a few years. So will be asking Bruce at Arch if he can do the work.....and maybe look at replacing the interior too with a different colour (red leather rather than blue....?)
If you want any advice on the lhd/French thing happy to help. Posted a bit on blatchat and sevener over the years (Wile7) or PM me via PH messaging.
Dave
The daft thing is that even with a rhd car I can pop to the Maire (admin office) in France now and register it directly from the Suisse papers as its now EU registered (and the swiss MFK/MOT is very stringent).
I will probably be looking at converting it to lhd though as we will be resting up somewhere in Europe in a few years. So will be asking Bruce at Arch if he can do the work.....and maybe look at replacing the interior too with a different colour (red leather rather than blue....?)
If you want any advice on the lhd/French thing happy to help. Posted a bit on blatchat and sevener over the years (Wile7) or PM me via PH messaging.
Dave
So the French will happily register a car from Switzerland (which isn't an EU member) but not from the UK ( which is ........... for the moment).
Sounds like par for the course. I know a couple of people in a similar situation who are careful to ensure their car doesn't remain in France for more than 6 months at a time for that very reason.
I have gone through this process in the German context. I purchased a used seven in the UK, transported it back to Germany, and got it registered with the help of a local company that have gone through the process many times. There needed to be conversion of the lights, emissions tests, some engineering tests, noise tests, then the equivalent of an MOT. A lot of faffing about, but all I had to do was pay a flat fee and wait. Not bad really.
Ignore anything that Caterham tell you about it being illegal. I found them to be extremely unhelpful and were attempting to scare me off by making false claims about the illegality of it. Bottom line - it's up to the local authorities to decide what can legally be driven on their roads (then by extension, Europe), NOT Caterham. It is true that there is no CoC, and this makes the process more difficult, but this is also the case in the UK. Getting a Caterham on the road is more difficult than a VW Golf.
I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
Ignore anything that Caterham tell you about it being illegal. I found them to be extremely unhelpful and were attempting to scare me off by making false claims about the illegality of it. Bottom line - it's up to the local authorities to decide what can legally be driven on their roads (then by extension, Europe), NOT Caterham. It is true that there is no CoC, and this makes the process more difficult, but this is also the case in the UK. Getting a Caterham on the road is more difficult than a VW Golf.
I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
CanAm said:
I know a couple of people in a similar situation who are careful to ensure their car doesn't remain in France for more than 6 months at a time for that very reason.
I understand their reasons for doing this, but I have an 'annual green card' for my current car, its insured all year so cannot think of a good reason to take it back to the uk apart from its annual MOT.Who's likely to care/ask how long the car has been in the country ? If plod asks, I could act dumb (not hard).
Theres another poster on here ( can't remember his name) who owns classic Jaguars, and I think he has had a car here for 15 years !
rotorwings said:
It is true that there is no CoC, and this makes the process more difficult, but this is also the case in the UK. Getting a Caterham on the road is more difficult than a VW Golf.
I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
No CoC for both kits and factory cars?!?!I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
daemonix said:
rotorwings said:
It is true that there is no CoC, and this makes the process more difficult, but this is also the case in the UK. Getting a Caterham on the road is more difficult than a VW Golf.
I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
No CoC for both kits and factory cars?!?!I'd focus on finding one person who has done this in France. Surely there is someone out there...
Not sure if the factory cars sold outside of the UK have CoC or not.
As mentioned earlier on. It is not possible for a kit. You can only do so for a factory built but at tje end it is not going to cost you a significant amount less and you would have spent so much time and energy.
Subscribe to sevener.fr and ask your questions there or better don't even bother collect the cash and buy one second hand in France. Three are occasionally some good deals.
Subscribe to sevener.fr and ask your questions there or better don't even bother collect the cash and buy one second hand in France. Three are occasionally some good deals.
I don't think the UK market Caterhams have a CoC, and very unlikely that the kit-form versions do as they are registered under special SVA rules.
The EU export market cars are different; LHD and different lights of course, but also different exhaust and emissions and noise equipment to conform to EU standards. I imagine that the EU dealers have to go through a lot of country specific paperwork to be able to import and register them.
I gave up on the self-build idea and bought an EU factory build in 2010 in Belgium, and it did come with a CoC which is handwritten in dutch on an index card. Doesn't look like any other CoC I've seen. I still sometimes get hassle at the control technique in Belgium because it is a 'small series' car and depending on the CT operators, they don't know what to do or find some new piece of paperwork that I don't have to argue about.
There may be a way to build a new kit, register in UK and import it into France, but as other have said, probably not worth the hassle unless you have great language skills, infinite patience and enjoy dealing with French government agencies. If it is legally possible it would be a very exceptional process which few people know about and for which people will keep telling you no. If it was easy, more people would do it.
I'd also be wary about buying anything with a dodgy french registration as you might get caught out. A french factory seven might cost more, but it'll definitely hold it's value better.
Good luck!
The EU export market cars are different; LHD and different lights of course, but also different exhaust and emissions and noise equipment to conform to EU standards. I imagine that the EU dealers have to go through a lot of country specific paperwork to be able to import and register them.
I gave up on the self-build idea and bought an EU factory build in 2010 in Belgium, and it did come with a CoC which is handwritten in dutch on an index card. Doesn't look like any other CoC I've seen. I still sometimes get hassle at the control technique in Belgium because it is a 'small series' car and depending on the CT operators, they don't know what to do or find some new piece of paperwork that I don't have to argue about.
There may be a way to build a new kit, register in UK and import it into France, but as other have said, probably not worth the hassle unless you have great language skills, infinite patience and enjoy dealing with French government agencies. If it is legally possible it would be a very exceptional process which few people know about and for which people will keep telling you no. If it was easy, more people would do it.
I'd also be wary about buying anything with a dodgy french registration as you might get caught out. A french factory seven might cost more, but it'll definitely hold it's value better.
Good luck!
Just buy the kit, build it, SVA it in UK, and deal with it in France.
It's the same here in Spain, but I see beach buggies, VW trikes, and Chinese off road buggies with Spanish plates, so it's doable. You may just have to find the right contacts.
Factory built cars don't have CoC as they all go through IVA, but I had the same b
ks from Caterham, The only difference between a factory car and a kit, is the chassis number, so I just bought a LHD starter kit from them.
They were horrible when I bought a UK registered factory car from them too. I had no end of trouble the following year trying to get a test drive of a CSR, even after I'd dropped 32k on a new car the previous year. They're up their own arse. Just do it.
It's the same here in Spain, but I see beach buggies, VW trikes, and Chinese off road buggies with Spanish plates, so it's doable. You may just have to find the right contacts.
Factory built cars don't have CoC as they all go through IVA, but I had the same b
ks from Caterham, The only difference between a factory car and a kit, is the chassis number, so I just bought a LHD starter kit from them.They were horrible when I bought a UK registered factory car from them too. I had no end of trouble the following year trying to get a test drive of a CSR, even after I'd dropped 32k on a new car the previous year. They're up their own arse. Just do it.
Thanks for all the replies and comments.
I'm now thinking maybe buy the kit, build in france but trailer back to Uk for IVA.
Then deal with trying to register it over here afterwards. If no go, then leave it on the UK plates with an annual green card for insurance.
Mickrick - interested to know if you specced the LHD kit recently, and if it was IVA'd ok (I assume it had 'RHD' headlights).
Cheers.
I'm now thinking maybe buy the kit, build in france but trailer back to Uk for IVA.
Then deal with trying to register it over here afterwards. If no go, then leave it on the UK plates with an annual green card for insurance.
Mickrick - interested to know if you specced the LHD kit recently, and if it was IVA'd ok (I assume it had 'RHD' headlights).
Cheers.
It's still in build, 10 years later! 
Life got in the way, and it's a very bespoke build. I only bought the starter kit chassis, pretty much everything else is bespoke.
It's spent more time in storage than build, I will be back on the job next winter.
I built a workshop at home, finally, last winter, got it home, then had to go back to work at sea.
I have LHD and RHD head lamp lenses, just swap them out for IVA when the time comes.
I specced an Arch chassis, as I didn't want one of the nasty weld spattered ones at the time. Not sure what they're like now.
She's sitting on rubber now, and rolls. Another year at see should see a nice motor sitting in the engine bay
I would say do as you say, build it, put it on UK plates.
Life got in the way, and it's a very bespoke build. I only bought the starter kit chassis, pretty much everything else is bespoke.
It's spent more time in storage than build, I will be back on the job next winter.
I built a workshop at home, finally, last winter, got it home, then had to go back to work at sea.
I have LHD and RHD head lamp lenses, just swap them out for IVA when the time comes.
I specced an Arch chassis, as I didn't want one of the nasty weld spattered ones at the time. Not sure what they're like now.
She's sitting on rubber now, and rolls. Another year at see should see a nice motor sitting in the engine bay
I would say do as you say, build it, put it on UK plates.
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