Going slowly in a Caterham

Going slowly in a Caterham

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fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

274 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
I took the car out at the weekend (for the first time in around a year), but even though I had one of the kids with me, I found it very frustrating going (relatively) slowly. Am I missing something here?

I only really enjoy the car when "pressing on", although this could get into illegal territory very quickly. Going slowly ends up with the diff clunking, a bit of driveline shunt, etc. Also, even though I live in the Chilterns, with some cracking roads, they are not quite big enough/well sighted enough to properly get on it, without risk of tractors pulling out of fields, people coming out of driveways, etc.

I can't see the point in "show and shine" type gatherings either, or sitting round a group of similar cars with a picnic hamper.

The "Caterham on the road" argument currently sits with me like the "Radical on a trackday" point: when it works, it's awesome, however, the opportunities for this are limited....

Racing / Trackdays / Nurburgring trips are largely behind me now due to family commitments.

Anyone else have similar dilemmas?

Does this leave the "for sale" option?

Edited by fergus on Monday 8th May 12:44

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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They all do that Sir.
Yes, a Caterham on a slow run is a chore. Even the low powered versions are a chore, with driveline shunt being a headache. Mine had an LSD, I think that that makes it worse. The cure is to plan your routes and avoid excessively speed limited roads, of which there are few these days.

The ultimate cure if you can't change your driving habits is to sell it and buy something else. I now own a Mazda MX5 which is a better car for the majority of UK journeys. Certainly I took it out yesterday and the best I managed was a short section of 50 limit. The rest was 30, 40, and a section of 20 (!) through the middle of Mytholmroyd. A route less suited to a 7 I can't imagine. 27 miles took just over an hour, without any stops. (Leeds to Widdop, if you are wondering).

sdio

287 posts

128 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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I think this is not for you any more..
I sufferred same with my elise and that lasted 3 yrs until i decided to sell it.
Dont waste your time sell it soonest

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Yup, I came to the same conclusion long ago.

For UK road use, I prefer something that can be driven, rather than dawdled, a lot more of the time, without it being illegal, antisocial or just plain dangerous: cars like the Lotus Elan, Westfield Eleven and original Mini.

jeremyc

23,335 posts

283 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Swap it for one of these and have fun at lower speeds.


fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

274 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
Equus said:
Yup, I came to the same conclusion long ago.

For UK road use, I prefer something that can be driven, rather than dawdled, a lot more of the time, without it being illegal, antisocial or just plain dangerous: cars like the Lotus Elan, Westfield Eleven and original Mini.
+1.

I have a 1969 Alfa Giulia which I'm currently building a warmed 2 litre engine for which may fit this bill.

I think the Caterham space in the garage may soon be occupied with 2 less wheels....

KN02LEY

72 posts

118 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Agreed, slow running is a total pain. My solution is to find the roads where you aren't forced to go unnaturally slowly. I'm lucky in that I have the Ribble valley, Trough of Bowland and West Pennines close by. Additionally the Lake District and Peak District aren't too far away either. If this isn't viable for you, maybe a big bike is the answer?

Apologies if I come across as a smug git, it isn't intentional :-)

fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

274 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
KN02LEY said:
Agreed, slow running is a total pain. My solution is to find the roads where you aren't forced to go unnaturally slowly. I'm lucky in that I have the Ribble valley, Trough of Bowland and West Pennines close by. Additionally the Lake District and Peak District aren't too far away either. If this isn't viable for you, maybe a big bike is the answer?

Apologies if I come across as a smug git, it isn't intentional :-)
Smugness accepted!

Already got the bike! thumbup

The other problem is that even when not going "slowly", I find I can be going down a road at a similar speed to how I would be going in a more vanilla "quick car", but wanting to push the Caterham to actually make use of its grip and power, i.e. in the 6-8k rpm band between the gears. Alas, this is even less "socially acceptable" now than it was 10 years ago....

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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jeremyc said:
Swap it for one of these and have fun at lower speeds.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. But frankly, this is just Fergus getting old. When he says the space will be occupied by something else, I think it might be battery powered...


upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Interesting.. for a slightly different point of view:

I don't think you can push anything to it's limits on the road. Had the mx5 - very low limits, fun, but still you can't really be sliding around/truly on the limit 'cos then you have no options and it's just not a predictable environment.
Had a boxster. Very nice. Pleasant place, nice sound, but really couldn't push it on the road, and a bit compromised as a track car.
Had a impreza turbo way back. Too easy, flattered too much.
Still in the honeymoon period with my caterham.. but it's involving even at lowish speed. It's direct, it makes me smile. Yes it's clunky, but it's supposed to be.. like the bikes it needs attention. The grip driven properly is epic.. but it can also be provoked into cheeky little slides off roundabouts and so on. More than any of the other cars it's a bit of a giggle. Hope it stays that way smile

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
fergus said:
The other problem is that even when not going "slowly", I find I can be going down a road at a similar speed to how I would be going in a more vanilla "quick car", but wanting to push the Caterham to actually make use of its grip and power, i.e. in the 6-8k rpm band between the gears.
That's because the maximum reasonable speed for (say) a hot hatch or a sports saloon is pretty close to the max reasonable speed in a 7. As for making use of its grip and power at 6000+ rpm, you can't easily do that safely on a public road. 7000 rpm in 2nd (Type 9 box, std diff) is ~70mph, the same in 3rd is ~90. The only time you can deploy that with confidence is on a track.

fergus

Original Poster:

6,430 posts

274 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Exactly what I was going to suggest. But frankly, this is just Fergus getting old. When he says the space will be occupied by something else, I think it might be battery powered...

Two words:





















Rolling burnout

BertBert

18,954 posts

210 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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I went VXI, SLR, R500, 1600SS

The 6-speed 1600 k was just brilliant. Yes in traffic it is a bit tedious, but even when you are not on the limit in openish roads., it was great fun.

You just have the wrong one Fergus!

Bert

JRA

9 posts

100 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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Just keep it in 1st or 2nd and rev the nuts off it! Gets rid of all the transmission shunt and drowns out the diff noises too. On normal runs I rarely use more than 3rd on my 6 speed box and then only on dual carriageways.

sdio

287 posts

128 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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That is another thruth
😊

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
upsidedownmark said:
I don't think you can push anything to it's limits on the road. Had the mx5 - very low limits, fun, but still you can't really be sliding around/truly on the limit 'cos then you have no options and it's just not a predictable environment.
The MX5 remains a relatively 'modern' car, with tyres that break away quite abruptly, by 1950's/60's standards.

You need to be looking at stuff with tall profile, 145/155 section tyres. Sure, you're not going to be driving them right on the ragged edge, if you're being sensible on public roads, but with the best amongst them (including the aforementioned Elan, Eleven and, yes, the OP's Alfa) the car will be moving around enough to make you concentrate on your control inputs, even at relatively modest speeds.

JRA said:
Just keep it in 1st or 2nd and rev the nuts off it! Gets rid of all the transmission shunt and drowns out the diff noises too. On normal runs I rarely use more than 3rd on my 6 speed box and then only on dual carriageways.
Trouble is, it makes you look like a right , with nether mechanical sympathy or social responsibility.

downsman

1,099 posts

155 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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How about less grippy tyres as well as less power? I have 120bhp and Uniroyal tyres. On track it does feel slow, but still fun. On the road, lack of grip does mean you have to concentrate and can't go round every corner as fast as vision allows.

MX5s have a higher top speed and are much quieter. I find the hideous racket and wind at 80 mph makes me want to back off for my comfort. Much better than knowing a modern car has another 30+ mph in hand and doesn't feel like it is even trying.

sdio

287 posts

128 months

Monday 8th May 2017
quotequote all
Oooh dear...

This is a dejavu.
Fergus, as mentioned earlier on this, is the exact reason i was taking no pleasure from driving my elise.
I found the perfect cure with the 1.6ss 6 box caterham.
all you need is adjustable standard suspension (no super stuff, nitrons, quantums and the like), crap tires and a 6 box with 3.92 drive.
You will really enjoy driving it at paces a modern suv moves shiftly.
I couldn't downgrade the elise enough because of the architecture of the car but the 7 being front engine rwd is the ideal.
Then add you half or full doors and you are a winner.
smile

Good luck

radical78

398 posts

143 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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cars have got more efficient roads have got more congested is the end coming for fast road cars as speed limits get lower and electronicly enforsed

greengreenwood7

704 posts

190 months

Monday 8th May 2017
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interesting debate/thread. I run a 7esque kit car, for the 1st year of owning it i enjoyed any excuse to get out, but that soon wore off; having close to 3 miles of tiny cruddy lanes and then needing another 20/30 mins to get onto better B roads became a chore, and within a surprisingly short period of time i'd discovered and 'done' the majority of decent roads around kent/surrey/sussex.

The saving grace in my case was meeting a decent bunch of guys to drive out with, all with slightly different views on 'making progress' - but with a common bond,that of enjoying our cars - and the banter that inevitably cropped up; That coupled with planning the routes to pick the peaches and all using programmed sat nav's changed things a heck of a lot.Nowadays i can rarely be bothered to take the car out solo, and if i do i can never work out where the heck to go - but somehow geting up at an unearthly hour on a sunday, meeting the guys, smelling /experiencing the changes in smell/temp through the countryside and finishing off with a bit of brekkie works well. Typically the drive home after these runs involves A roads and motorways - ie/ the direct route, and its got to the point where i look forward to finishing somewhere where i can quickly jump on a motorway to get home as the A roads by 9/9.30 are clogged and its just plain frustrating poodling at 45 in a 60 with no (sensible) chance to overtake.

After arranging/doing 3 UK 'tours' in the kit i had to do the 4th in an Elise, nice car and i was ever grateful to the friend that lent it to me - but it just didn't tick the boxes, even with the roof off for the duration and windows wound down there was something missing. The last couple of years i've only managed about 7-8k miles a year, down from the initial 10-12k, but there's no way that i would give up the kit; No we can't use all the power, but to me its far more rewarding than driving a production car - if only i lived in a quieter part of the country, then i wouldn't have to get up so early to get that driving fix.

(on the subject of polishers and folks who sit next to their cars at shows.....to support the club i'm involved with i went to a show last weekend. Not my bag, i want to drive.....anyway, i did a double take when i saw a guy with a gtr take out a portable buffer and proceed to clean the inside of his exhausts.)