Discussion
Having now sold my Ultima I am looking for a new toy. I want something that is going to be fun to chuck round the twistys and I have always wanted a Caterham.
My previous car was a Westfield XI that had a diddy 1275 A series coupled with skinny hard tyres and it was a blast to drive on and off the track. Two things worry me about the 310r, firstly is it going to seem too slow after the Ultima and secondly, are they overtyred with the 8" rears.
One of the above I can sort with a test drive, but the other isn't really something that I can establish on a test.
Over to you.
My previous car was a Westfield XI that had a diddy 1275 A series coupled with skinny hard tyres and it was a blast to drive on and off the track. Two things worry me about the 310r, firstly is it going to seem too slow after the Ultima and secondly, are they overtyred with the 8" rears.
One of the above I can sort with a test drive, but the other isn't really something that I can establish on a test.
Over to you.
The 310r has 14 185/60 all round in standard spec (at least in the spec sheet) so I guess you are looking at an upgraded car. Serious track users would change to 13 inch wheels and run either 6 inch rims all round, or 8 inch on the rear. I suspect, at 310 power levels, the former is best, but these things are often down to personal preference.
Depending on the spec of your Ultima, the 310r may seem quite tame, but it would be quicker than the power suggests, particularly on the twisty bits. That's where the fun is. From a friend that has done the Ultima/Caterham swap, I think it may highlight all the bad things about the Ultima, rather than any lack of performance.
Depending on the spec of your Ultima, the 310r may seem quite tame, but it would be quicker than the power suggests, particularly on the twisty bits. That's where the fun is. From a friend that has done the Ultima/Caterham swap, I think it may highlight all the bad things about the Ultima, rather than any lack of performance.
Edited by DCL on Monday 13th August 10:38
I like my car to turn in well and be able to steer the rear on the throttle. I am not chasing lap times, I want playful. Looks like I may need to budget for another set of wheels if the car comes with larger rears.
I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
I think the consensus in the Caterham world is that the optimum is 175 on the front and 215 (or brand equivalent) for car with 200 BHP or more. The serious guys may go larger on the front to help with braking. That provides a good balance between steering on the throttle and rear traction.
One thing you may discover with the Caterham is that the geometry is powerful and offers a lot of scope to get the car to handle as you like. In fact it can probably override tyre sizes with ease. So if you are not chasing that ultimate lap time, or race victory, then I wouldn't become too obsessed with tyres.
One thing you may discover with the Caterham is that the geometry is powerful and offers a lot of scope to get the car to handle as you like. In fact it can probably override tyre sizes with ease. So if you are not chasing that ultimate lap time, or race victory, then I wouldn't become too obsessed with tyres.
I had my 140 odd bhp 7 with 6" all round, Yoko 539s - you can get some temp into them if you get the pressures right, but they last forever and taught me more about car handling that any other tyre, purely because the limit of grip was lower.
With a proper set-up and geo from someone who knows what they're doing to give you a decent starting point and the option of a couple of front arbs, I'm sure you could have a very neutral, adjustable platform to start on, then with pressures, arbs and and if you can, adjustable dampering, alter the car significantly in less than 20 mins.
My mate has 6/8 on his SL and is moving to 6 all round. I think it's a far more involving experience and unless you're surrounded by race cars/other Caterham or on a fast track like Silverstone where you can run out of gears, you won't get too much of an ego-bash for being slower. Less fast is the appropriate term. I had a great and evenly matched play with a modified Cayman at Pembrey last year, so slow isn't the word I'd use with 539s, despite the bashing they get from the semi-slick brigade.
The whole thing is more gentle on the car too!
With a proper set-up and geo from someone who knows what they're doing to give you a decent starting point and the option of a couple of front arbs, I'm sure you could have a very neutral, adjustable platform to start on, then with pressures, arbs and and if you can, adjustable dampering, alter the car significantly in less than 20 mins.
My mate has 6/8 on his SL and is moving to 6 all round. I think it's a far more involving experience and unless you're surrounded by race cars/other Caterham or on a fast track like Silverstone where you can run out of gears, you won't get too much of an ego-bash for being slower. Less fast is the appropriate term. I had a great and evenly matched play with a modified Cayman at Pembrey last year, so slow isn't the word I'd use with 539s, despite the bashing they get from the semi-slick brigade.
The whole thing is more gentle on the car too!
I'd stick with the 6" wide tyres all round on a 155bhp car.
I have 185/55/13 ZZS all round on my 140, and it's brilliantly balanced. At Pembrey a few weeks back, I wasn't passed by another 7 all day. In fact, the only things that passed me tended to be Evos or Imprezas, actual race cars with aero and a very fast Ariel Atom. Anything else that came remotely close to catching up with me by the end of the straight was very quickly lost by the time I got through the first few bends of the infield section.
I can't say how you'd find it after an Ultima. But my 140 with small tyres, 6 speed box and an aeroscreen feels absolutely frantic on track. The only time you feel you'd want a bit more power is out of corners onto long straights. Even then though, you tend to have the power to weight ratio to get past most things anyway!
I'd suggest hiring one for a day to see how you get on
I have 185/55/13 ZZS all round on my 140, and it's brilliantly balanced. At Pembrey a few weeks back, I wasn't passed by another 7 all day. In fact, the only things that passed me tended to be Evos or Imprezas, actual race cars with aero and a very fast Ariel Atom. Anything else that came remotely close to catching up with me by the end of the straight was very quickly lost by the time I got through the first few bends of the infield section.
I can't say how you'd find it after an Ultima. But my 140 with small tyres, 6 speed box and an aeroscreen feels absolutely frantic on track. The only time you feel you'd want a bit more power is out of corners onto long straights. Even then though, you tend to have the power to weight ratio to get past most things anyway!
I'd suggest hiring one for a day to see how you get on
I have 8” wheels and wider tyres on the rear of my SuperSport 140 for purely aesthetic/vanity reasons... as at a given profile the wider tyres are also taller and so fill the rear wheel arches so much better; I don’t need the extra grip of the wider tyre but it looks *so* much better!
MKnight702 said:
I like my car to turn in well and be able to steer the rear on the throttle. I am not chasing lap times, I want playful. Looks like I may need to budget for another set of wheels if the car comes with larger rears.
I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
I had an R400 a few years ago which had around 190 bhp and it was very easy to steer on the throttle. Great fun.I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
MKnight702 said:
I like my car to turn in well and be able to steer the rear on the throttle. I am not chasing lap times, I want playful. Looks like I may need to budget for another set of wheels if the car comes with larger rears.
I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
With so little weight acting on each tyre, wider rears probably don't make as big a difference to outright grip as you might expect based on experience with more conventional cars. If weight is constant and area increases, force per unit area reduces, friction doesn't drastically change. I seem to recall that when Chris Harris reviewed the Supersport R he said it had 175s all round. What is this obsession with larger than larger tyres? Surely, this just makes the transition between stick and twist more extreme?
However, with a high powered car and on the track, wider rears won't 'go off' as early as narrow ones.
The car I raced last year was basically a 310R with about 15bhp less, we were running Yokohama A048s for 20 minute races, the tyres don't 'go off' unless you pressures are too high.
It seemed to me that it was the two litre cars which tended to get 8" rears from the factory.
I have a 310R spec car that I'm possibly moving on.....
However, I would say the 6'' wheels all round are the way to go, just gives it the nimble/agile edge that it needs. I have a set of 8'' rears that I tend to run on the road as I prefer the look, but change them for occasional track work.
I personally think its a great all rounder, you can explore all of the rev range on the road and it still cuts it on track - either way its going to be a big change from an Ultima but I dont think you'll be disappointed.
However, I would say the 6'' wheels all round are the way to go, just gives it the nimble/agile edge that it needs. I have a set of 8'' rears that I tend to run on the road as I prefer the look, but change them for occasional track work.
I personally think its a great all rounder, you can explore all of the rev range on the road and it still cuts it on track - either way its going to be a big change from an Ultima but I dont think you'll be disappointed.
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