Tyre choice for winter track days (13’’)
Discussion
Hi guys,
Trying to get in lots of practice over the winter for 2019 Mag 7’s (my first race series!) - I would be grateful for any opinions on a good all round winter track tyre (something that will cope with the inevitable wet day); and that I can potentially use during the series next year for wet days. I have a few sets of rims so was wondering whether it’s overkill to get 2-3 sets, with something specifically for standing water level of wet, or whether there was a good all rounder for damp / wet.
I’ve used the nankang ar1 this summer, which are great, but these are pretty unforgiving in the wet.
I’m running r13 with 6’’ fronts and 8’’ rears (superlight R).
Thanks in advance,
James.
Trying to get in lots of practice over the winter for 2019 Mag 7’s (my first race series!) - I would be grateful for any opinions on a good all round winter track tyre (something that will cope with the inevitable wet day); and that I can potentially use during the series next year for wet days. I have a few sets of rims so was wondering whether it’s overkill to get 2-3 sets, with something specifically for standing water level of wet, or whether there was a good all rounder for damp / wet.
I’ve used the nankang ar1 this summer, which are great, but these are pretty unforgiving in the wet.
I’m running r13 with 6’’ fronts and 8’’ rears (superlight R).
Thanks in advance,
James.
Probably against the majority but I did a TD 17/11 when it was damp/wet in the morning and dry but cold (10/11c) in the afternoon
That was on ZZRs which weren’t bad at all, especially when dry when they got quite warm and gripped fine.
You’d need more tread if there was a lot of water.
That was on ZZRs which weren’t bad at all, especially when dry when they got quite warm and gripped fine.
You’d need more tread if there was a lot of water.
Ducati07 said:
When you say ‘everyone races on the same pattern regardless’ what do you mean?
Yes I agree that I’d rather stick to a tyre now and use it next year.
Don’t know about Mag 7s but Caterham motorsport, Grads Club, everyone just uses one kind of tyre all conditions. That means you need three sets of wheels maximum. Testing set, race set, brand new race set in case it rains. Yes I agree that I’d rather stick to a tyre now and use it next year.
I have used Yokohama A048 in some serious rain, never found aquaplaning to be a problem.
New tyres, maybe with a light scrub, best for very wet qualifying and races. Once the edges have been knocked off and most of the wet advantage is lost they are still pretty much as good as new tyres in dry conditions. Normally before you hit the wear bars the tyres are past their best due to heat cycles. Then they’re only good for practice. Hence three sets on the go at a time.
It’s the circle of life.
It’s the circle of life.
Tyres in Mag7s are free as long as on List 1a, 1b or 1c in the Blue Book.
Popular dry tyre are List 1c Avon ZZR, Kumho V70, Yoko A048 (same as Grads, i think), Toyo R888 (same as Toyo 7?Series) and the Nankang AR1 are just starting to be seen.
I am no expert but Must admit that i dont think i would want to use these tyres in anything other than dry conditions as the lack of Caterham weight wont help them grip, have used them on heavier cars though.
As has been said, though, several series do race on them in the wet because they have no choice, but then use a brsnd new set with sharo edges!
“Wet tyres” in Mag7s tend to be Avon ZZS or Avon CR28. The former are far better in marginal conditions i think.
Popular dry tyre are List 1c Avon ZZR, Kumho V70, Yoko A048 (same as Grads, i think), Toyo R888 (same as Toyo 7?Series) and the Nankang AR1 are just starting to be seen.
I am no expert but Must admit that i dont think i would want to use these tyres in anything other than dry conditions as the lack of Caterham weight wont help them grip, have used them on heavier cars though.
As has been said, though, several series do race on them in the wet because they have no choice, but then use a brsnd new set with sharo edges!
“Wet tyres” in Mag7s tend to be Avon ZZS or Avon CR28. The former are far better in marginal conditions i think.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 28th November 09:07
I thought A048s would be terrible in very wet conditions and I have heard competitors complaining of aquaplaning but I did two very wet races last season with water sheeting across the track and never experienced aquaplaning.
I have aquaplaned before, front axle of my 5-series and front axle of Hyundai i30 hire car, in case you're wondering whether I know what aquaplaning is!
Full wet conditions I was 13% slower at Oulton and 21% slower at Snetterton.
Of course if the competition has dedicated wet tyres then I suppose you'll need to get on board just in case you have a very wet qually or race or two. One of the beauties of the Grads club- control tyre, three set limit.
All I'm saying is in my experience these tyres are predictable, can handle a surprising amount of water and aren't in any way 'dangerous'.
I have aquaplaned before, front axle of my 5-series and front axle of Hyundai i30 hire car, in case you're wondering whether I know what aquaplaning is!
Full wet conditions I was 13% slower at Oulton and 21% slower at Snetterton.
Of course if the competition has dedicated wet tyres then I suppose you'll need to get on board just in case you have a very wet qually or race or two. One of the beauties of the Grads club- control tyre, three set limit.
All I'm saying is in my experience these tyres are predictable, can handle a surprising amount of water and aren't in any way 'dangerous'.
I had a wet day (rain but not heavy rain) a couple of weeks ago at Cadwell on half worn ZZS. I didn’t push them too hard in the wet but was pleasantly surprised. When the car started to slide they were controllable. My 7 is probably setup better for the wet than dry with softer road suspension, 6” wheels all round and no rear ARB.
Edited by Steveh7 on Tuesday 4th December 23:06
HustleRussell said:
I thought A048s would be terrible in very wet conditions and I have heard competitors complaining of aquaplaning but I did two very wet races last season with water sheeting across the track and never experienced aquaplaning....
All I'm saying is in my experience these tyres are predictable, can handle a surprising amount of water and aren't in any way 'dangerous'.
I have used A048s (and Toyo R888s) on several cars (Tin Tops and GT types) in races and firmly believe that you drive to the conditions. I was always happy to drive in "normal" rain and damp tracks on them. That said, in very heavy rain conditions I was certainly glad to be on Uniroyal Rainsports at Donington Park in a 944 Turbo a couple of years ago.All I'm saying is in my experience these tyres are predictable, can handle a surprising amount of water and aren't in any way 'dangerous'.
When I first got my Caterham, I went to a track day at Mallory where the track was very wet from heavy overnight rain and it remained drizzly. I didn't go out for the first half an hour as I waited for others to form a dry(ish) line. The dry(ish) line never really appeared and so I went out on used A048s. On Lap 2, I spun! I changed to Avon CR28s and was entirely comfortable. I do believe that Caterhams, and the like, are trickier cars than most to drive in wet/ damp conditions on A048s and similar List 1C tyres due to their lack of weight making it difficult to get heat in to the tyres and force the tyre tread through the surface water layer.
or maybe its my complete lack of talent!!!!
I haven't tried ZZS.
For whatever it's worth, mine has ZZS on it. 135bhp k series, roadsport suspension (narrow), red front and 2 off full stiff on the back. Rained pretty solidly half way through a TD. Pressures were 22 hot all round (on a dry track). Didn't touch setup in any way, and my only wet experience with the car.
Initially I found that it ridiculous how little grip there was in comparison to the dry/other (more road oriented/heavier) cars I've tracked. Eventually they 'switched on' - was quite a step change after about 10-15 mins, something I've never experienced before. I assume I managed to get brave enough to actually get some heat, at which point it only got better and had a lot of fun. Very predictable.. never woried about aquaplaning, but there wasn't any standing water. I don't have experience of any other tyre to compare, but can't say I'd bother changing them.
Initially I found that it ridiculous how little grip there was in comparison to the dry/other (more road oriented/heavier) cars I've tracked. Eventually they 'switched on' - was quite a step change after about 10-15 mins, something I've never experienced before. I assume I managed to get brave enough to actually get some heat, at which point it only got better and had a lot of fun. Very predictable.. never woried about aquaplaning, but there wasn't any standing water. I don't have experience of any other tyre to compare, but can't say I'd bother changing them.
At Oulton Park this year we (grads) raced in the snow on AO48’s... it wasn’t fun but everyone finished the race.
The VX220/Elise race cars seem to like using Uniroyal Rainsports for wet races. If the regs allowed it I’d be looking at something more like that than a semi-slick type tyre.
The VX220/Elise race cars seem to like using Uniroyal Rainsports for wet races. If the regs allowed it I’d be looking at something more like that than a semi-slick type tyre.
Edited by Vimes on Friday 7th December 22:45
Sorry to hijack this thread, it is kinda on topic 
....I would be very interested to know what people think the difference is between CR28's and the Uniroyals.....I'm embarking upon my second year of sprinting and last year used Nankang NS-R2's which I thought were quite reasonable in the wet. However, this year I'm looking at using perhaps AR1's and the NS-R2's, but would like a proper out and out a wet tyre for this season as a couple of times last year it wouldn't have been possible to be more wet and would like something a bit more built for purpose!
I know a lot of people like the Uniroyals but I'd like some more opinions please chaps - Thanks!
....I would be very interested to know what people think the difference is between CR28's and the Uniroyals.....I'm embarking upon my second year of sprinting and last year used Nankang NS-R2's which I thought were quite reasonable in the wet. However, this year I'm looking at using perhaps AR1's and the NS-R2's, but would like a proper out and out a wet tyre for this season as a couple of times last year it wouldn't have been possible to be more wet and would like something a bit more built for purpose!I know a lot of people like the Uniroyals but I'd like some more opinions please chaps - Thanks!
Don't know why, given freedom of choice, you'd fit List 1A tyres even for extreme wet. The Uniroyal is a road car tyre, designed to last tens of thousands of miles of gentle use under a heavy tintop. For that purpose they are good tyres. For sprinting, I can't help feeling that the conditions where the Uniroyal will be faster than a semi slick will be few and the Uniroyals will just sit about getting harder and harder and slower and slower.
HustleRussell said:
Don't know why, given freedom of choice, you'd fit List 1A tyres even for extreme wet. The Uniroyal is a road car tyre, designed to last tens of thousands of miles of gentle use under a heavy tintop. For that purpose they are good tyres. For sprinting, I can't help feeling that the conditions where the Uniroyal will be faster than a semi slick will be few and the Uniroyals will just sit about getting harder and harder and slower and slower.
Good answer, a bit blunt, but to the point nonetheless.The Avon's it is then
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