K-series Caterham for sub 11k... possible??
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
I was just puzzled about the term ‘lightweight’ being used as it, as far as I know, refers to a few historical, focussed models that haven’t been around for some time.
Yeah, but, I'd just come in from driving a 7 all day for the first time and I was buzzing. I could have come away believing they were made of fondant icing. I guess I have just enhanced the story over the years. The point was, having passed the test of successfully hiring a cooking Caterham, they said we were eligible to hire a much quicker version that was not advertised. It would appear I remembered the name incorrectly. Apologies.DickyC said:
REALIST123 said:
?? What’s a lightweight?
Or more to the point what do you think it is and what did you hire in the first place?
As far as I know they haven’t built a truly (in 7 terms) lightweight car for years and certainly haven't any on their stock list.
My 2015 R400D was one of the last cars designated ‘Superlight’ but in all honesty it isn’t really.
Don't spoil it. I was so chuffed when they said. Or more to the point what do you think it is and what did you hire in the first place?
As far as I know they haven’t built a truly (in 7 terms) lightweight car for years and certainly haven't any on their stock list.
My 2015 R400D was one of the last cars designated ‘Superlight’ but in all honesty it isn’t really.
I wonder if I've changed it in the telling. Maybe it was Superlight. The point is they offered us the opportunity to hire a much faster version than we did that wasn't available to hire on their website. The ones you hire in the first instance are as standard as they get. All three we had were cooking 1.6 IIRC. They seemed pretty quick to us.
If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
You may not intend using a 7 on track but, again IMO, that’s where a good 7 really comes alive and it should be experienced at least once or twice.
(Not that a 7 isn’t fun on road but the experience is somewhat spoiled by the state of the roads in general, traffic and regulation)
REALIST123 said:
Fair enough!
If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
You may not intend using a 7 on track but, again IMO, that’s where a good 7 really comes alive and it should be experienced at least once or twice.
(Not that a 7 isn’t fun on road but the experience is somewhat spoiled by the state of the roads in general, traffic and regulation)
Thanks! Marvellous stuff. The boys and I also did a Caterham Track Day at Silverstone prior to hiring one each for the day. We shared an instructor. The instructor spun it. If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
You may not intend using a 7 on track but, again IMO, that’s where a good 7 really comes alive and it should be experienced at least once or twice.
(Not that a 7 isn’t fun on road but the experience is somewhat spoiled by the state of the roads in general, traffic and regulation)
When I was looking I was in K or Crossflow territory price wise.
Knowing a couple of guys who race Crossflows in other cars and are massive Ford fans I was advised not to dismiss a Crossflow, or ‘Mighty Crossflow’ as they called them.
I was about to buy a K when it was snapped up before me and went for a Crossflow. It had bills for a Roger King upgrade, (highly respected in 7 circles) so makes 150bhp. It’s the sought after ‘AX’ South African block, stronger apparently when bored out. This engine work did not seem to be reflected in the price I paid, and cost over £3000 approx 15 years ago.
It also has electronic ignition.
The engine is very strong, lovely sound on twin Webers. Economy was never a concern as it’s a toy, but I saw one owner say they do 25mph, 18 on a ‘good day’, which really shows they are meant to be driven.
They are simple to work on, adjusting Webers is a skill to learn, but satisfying, I do it with every season change, a few minutes twiddling.
The prices of Crossflows is firm, a chum looked for one for a year at the £10,000 mark, ended up paying £11,500 for a 30,000 miler 1994 on clams from a renowned dealer, so with warranty. There comes a time when you know you could find a £10,000 one, but paying a bit more for a great one, in a colour you want, from a dealer, makes sense, I guess it’s just what pops up.
Mine had many years of bills and showed it was doing 500/600 miles a year. I’ve certainly upped that to circa 7-8000 miles a year and my bills are actually less, as they like to be driven, used, enjoyed. And at 30,000 miles an engine is hardly used!
I hope you find something, I’d say look everywhere, dismiss nothing, buy on condition not age.
Knowing a couple of guys who race Crossflows in other cars and are massive Ford fans I was advised not to dismiss a Crossflow, or ‘Mighty Crossflow’ as they called them.
I was about to buy a K when it was snapped up before me and went for a Crossflow. It had bills for a Roger King upgrade, (highly respected in 7 circles) so makes 150bhp. It’s the sought after ‘AX’ South African block, stronger apparently when bored out. This engine work did not seem to be reflected in the price I paid, and cost over £3000 approx 15 years ago.
It also has electronic ignition.
The engine is very strong, lovely sound on twin Webers. Economy was never a concern as it’s a toy, but I saw one owner say they do 25mph, 18 on a ‘good day’, which really shows they are meant to be driven.
They are simple to work on, adjusting Webers is a skill to learn, but satisfying, I do it with every season change, a few minutes twiddling.
The prices of Crossflows is firm, a chum looked for one for a year at the £10,000 mark, ended up paying £11,500 for a 30,000 miler 1994 on clams from a renowned dealer, so with warranty. There comes a time when you know you could find a £10,000 one, but paying a bit more for a great one, in a colour you want, from a dealer, makes sense, I guess it’s just what pops up.
Mine had many years of bills and showed it was doing 500/600 miles a year. I’ve certainly upped that to circa 7-8000 miles a year and my bills are actually less, as they like to be driven, used, enjoyed. And at 30,000 miles an engine is hardly used!
I hope you find something, I’d say look everywhere, dismiss nothing, buy on condition not age.
On the subject of rear axle configuration .From my experience; my two initial cars with live rear axle (150 BPH) were a lot quieter than later cars which had de dion, where the diff was mounted to the chassis. I only used mine for road use but there was no diff play and chatter and no whine. The majority of later cars, especially the more powerful variants seemed to be plagued with noisy transmission and difficulty with going slowly in traffic ! Probably only important when considering relaxing road use whereas the noise is not a factor for maximising track performance.
Roblot said:
On the subject of rear axle configuration .From my experience; my two initial cars with live rear axle (150 BPH) were a lot quieter than later cars which had de dion, where the diff was mounted to the chassis. I only used mine for road use but there was no diff play and chatter and no whine. The majority of later cars, especially the more powerful variants seemed to be plagued with noisy transmission and difficulty with going slowly in traffic ! Probably only important when considering relaxing road use whereas the noise is not a factor for maximising track performance.
You’re right about diff noise; the more powerful versions may well have LSDs which add to the clatter. Mine doesn’t whine but does chatter on overrun and isn’t hard to get kangarooing on bumpy roads because of the very sensitive throttle.
Traffic isn’t an issue really. I can slowly let the clutch engage at the 850rpm idle and the car will just creep away.
DoubleD said:
OP, have you looked at the car on pistonheads thats on for under £11k?
It looks like good value. I am new to Caterham ownership and have an almost identical car to that one.One thing I would say is that a heater/fan is a must for the OP - ex-race cars may not have them so it's something to bear in mind when looking at cheap K cars. The heater helps in cold weather whether the roof is on or not, while the fan makes a big difference with keeping the cabin from fogging up in wet weather (but the fan needs to be blowing before you even close the door, to avoid misting up as soon as you get in; it was the same in my old Elise and Alfa).
For the OP's use, I would be choosing a car with heater and an older engine over a K car with no heater. As for carbs - if they are properly set up to begin with, regular use makes the biggest difference to reliability. I used my 70s Alfa for 3 years as an only car in London and the carbs never gave a problem.
Do it!
I dailied a 1.4k for six months, wimping out in winter and buying a £900 A4 diesel. This was mainly due to not wanting to wreck the chassis though - as others have said, corrosion can be an issue. I got 35+mpg most of the time.
I'd say go for it. Ex-race cars are where you need to be looking for sub 10k. There's a 1600k in Scotland right now with V5 and MOT. I would also look to REIS and other specialist insurers, unless you're adding mega miles.
From experience, I would go for a 5 speed box, 1.6, full hood, not half.
Some things that are expensive and/or harder to add at a later date though:
Heater
Six speed box
LSD
Dry sump
Different engine
New panelling (you'll see corrosion between the aluminium panels and the bottom chassis rail, courtesty of chemistry and also what are known as the "grot traps".
Interior carpeting on the other hand, is easy, so don't be put off by bare metal. Seats are personal. For daily, I'd want leather, or at least a pad over a tillet. My old 1.6 had a 12v socket, so the previous owner used a heated seat pad.
You'll want ear protection. Deafness isn't cool.
Get onto the Caterham 7 - Marketplace Group on FB - lots going on there. ETA, you'll have to buy private for sub 10k.
The one on FB now (not mine mods - please don't bin me) reads:
William Halley
Caterham Roadsport
£9,950
Crieff
Caterham Roadsport 1.6 K Series in race trim ... 2001, straight cut type 9, stack dash, engine and box rebuilt recently and not raced in last three years... chassis straight..12 months MOT.. odd scratches but all panels and fibreglass straight... belts in date to 2021.. transponder included... spare set of practice wheels... all light fittings available.
I'd say go for it. Ex-race cars are where you need to be looking for sub 10k. There's a 1600k in Scotland right now with V5 and MOT. I would also look to REIS and other specialist insurers, unless you're adding mega miles.
From experience, I would go for a 5 speed box, 1.6, full hood, not half.
Some things that are expensive and/or harder to add at a later date though:
Heater
Six speed box
LSD
Dry sump
Different engine
New panelling (you'll see corrosion between the aluminium panels and the bottom chassis rail, courtesty of chemistry and also what are known as the "grot traps".
Interior carpeting on the other hand, is easy, so don't be put off by bare metal. Seats are personal. For daily, I'd want leather, or at least a pad over a tillet. My old 1.6 had a 12v socket, so the previous owner used a heated seat pad.
You'll want ear protection. Deafness isn't cool.
Get onto the Caterham 7 - Marketplace Group on FB - lots going on there. ETA, you'll have to buy private for sub 10k.
The one on FB now (not mine mods - please don't bin me) reads:
William Halley
Caterham Roadsport
£9,950
Crieff
Caterham Roadsport 1.6 K Series in race trim ... 2001, straight cut type 9, stack dash, engine and box rebuilt recently and not raced in last three years... chassis straight..12 months MOT.. odd scratches but all panels and fibreglass straight... belts in date to 2021.. transponder included... spare set of practice wheels... all light fittings available.
Edited by Smitters on Wednesday 19th June 13:18
Mine isn't used anywhere near as much as it used to be, when I first bought it, I took it out every weekend, regardless of the weather (Except for actual snowy roads!).
I keep it treated with ACF-50 - works very well, I smoother the whole chassis in it and it looks just as good as it did when I bought it. They tend to get rusty bits around the rear basket and my watts-linkage and track rod ends are a bit rusty, but other than that, it looks pretty smart. (an '09 car).
With regards to using it in the winter.... it's fine on a cold day if you wrap up. The heater is a must.
Honestly, the thought of having to defrost it on cold days makes me shudder. It would be soooo cold. At the same time though, I've also put myself off getting an Elise as a daily for the same reason.
The only other thing I would add is, driving a 7 in rush hour traffic isn't particularly pleasant. You're very low and people just don't have much awareness or patience early in the morning. Having to daily it might lower your overall enjoyment of the car too. I like mine because it's a thrill after driving a tin-top all week. If I had to use it every day I think I'd have a different opinion!
I keep it treated with ACF-50 - works very well, I smoother the whole chassis in it and it looks just as good as it did when I bought it. They tend to get rusty bits around the rear basket and my watts-linkage and track rod ends are a bit rusty, but other than that, it looks pretty smart. (an '09 car).
With regards to using it in the winter.... it's fine on a cold day if you wrap up. The heater is a must.
Honestly, the thought of having to defrost it on cold days makes me shudder. It would be soooo cold. At the same time though, I've also put myself off getting an Elise as a daily for the same reason.
The only other thing I would add is, driving a 7 in rush hour traffic isn't particularly pleasant. You're very low and people just don't have much awareness or patience early in the morning. Having to daily it might lower your overall enjoyment of the car too. I like mine because it's a thrill after driving a tin-top all week. If I had to use it every day I think I'd have a different opinion!
I'd love a 7 again, but need to get rid of a toy first. Quite fancy a 1700 crossflow in a widetrack DD car. No idea why that appeals, but it does! And I can't even begin to contemplate the massive prices of current caterhams.
Bert
REALIST123 said:
If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
I think au contraire Rodney. Having a high power 7 on the road is a source of frustration for me as you never get to use it all. And on track there's no extra fun to be had going a bit faster on the straights as it's the corners that are fun, so no downside on track! It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
Bert
framerateuk said:
I keep it treated with ACF-50 - works very well, I smoother the whole chassis in it and it looks just as good as it did when I bought it. They tend to get rusty bits around the rear basket and my watts-linkage and track rod ends are a bit rusty, but other than that, it looks pretty smart. (an '09 car).
How do you apply the ACF-50? I am interested in doing the same thing.BertBert said:
I'd love a 7 again, but need to get rid of a toy first. Quite fancy a 1700 crossflow in a widetrack DD car. No idea why that appeals, but it does! And I can't even begin to contemplate the massive prices of current caterhams.
Bert
Don’t see the downside on the road. You might not be able to use all the power but you can use at least as much as a lower powered car. REALIST123 said:
If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
I think au contraire Rodney. Having a high power 7 on the road is a source of frustration for me as you never get to use it all. And on track there's no extra fun to be had going a bit faster on the straights as it's the corners that are fun, so no downside on track! It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
Bert
And it’s not just about going a little faster on the straights, on track. Arriving at corners at a higher speed makes braking more significant and the extra power and probably grip of a higher performance car make corners much more of a challenge too.
Each to his own, for me 200/220hp is the creme de la menthe, Derek!!
BertBert said:
I'd love a 7 again, but need to get rid of a toy first. Quite fancy a 1700 crossflow in a widetrack DD car. No idea why that appeals, but it does! And I can't even begin to contemplate the massive prices of current caterhams.
Bert
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion as Graham. I have a 220hp aero-screened SLR which when driving on the roads becomes very frustrating and hard to drive in a "socially responsible" manner. As such I don't use the car very much at the moment. It's more rewarding (for me) to take a slower car out and maintain momentum, etc. Far, far less likely to get involved with the dash cam dudes and anyone waving a speed detector at you. I live out in the Chilterns, so good roads are easy to find, but the days of driving fast on the road are limited IMHO. REALIST123 said:
If you are seriously considering one I would definitely recommend you try a more powerful car before you decide.
It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
I think au contraire Rodney. Having a high power 7 on the road is a source of frustration for me as you never get to use it all. And on track there's no extra fun to be had going a bit faster on the straights as it's the corners that are fun, so no downside on track! It’s true that 135/150 bhp is fine on the road but, IMHO, extra power is very positively noticeable on track and has no real downsides on the road.
Bert
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