Anyone know the history of this car that’s up for sale??
Discussion
I’m looking at purchasing a Caterham but am fairly new to the cars. I like the look of this one however was looking for advice on the engine (ie reliability vs power output) and any information on how much of a job removing the cage would be and fitting a windscreen and FIA roll bar. Any help appreciated.
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/v002ewx
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/v002ewx
I don't know the history of the car but I would ask what do you want to use the car for track or road, If you want a windscreen you will also need wiper motor, wipers, full doors and some kind of weather protection half hood is usually preferable. You may also want a heater.
Moving the cage and replacing with the roll bar isn't a major job, neither is fitting the other items, if the car is for road use maybe more of an issue would be the noise from the straight cut box.
I would also want to know when the engine was built or last refreshed.
Moving the cage and replacing with the roll bar isn't a major job, neither is fitting the other items, if the car is for road use maybe more of an issue would be the noise from the straight cut box.
I would also want to know when the engine was built or last refreshed.
Agree with the above - first, Millwood are good guys. Second, that's a track car and will be a nightmare on the road. Depending on the ratios, you may be pulling 5,000rpm at 70. I'd bet on that being trailered to the track. Yes, you could make it a great high power road car but there are probably more suitable cars out there. As ever though. the proof is in the driving. I'd probably pick a dry day though. That will oversteer everywhere with an inattentive throttle.
Thanks for the help. It would primarily be for road use with plans to do some track work in the future, so thanks for the advice. It would definitely only be for summer/dry weather and I have been in touch with Jon who was very helpful. He has sent me the invoices for some of the work and after a lot of research it all seems like the right and expensive stuff (DVA head, piper cams, DK crankshaft, omega pistons and liners, arrow rods, K6 Ecu etc). I didn’t think too much about the noise of the straight cut gears however it is a 5 speed and not a 6 speed when looking through the invoices so potentially slightly better suited to touring. Not 100% on the ratios though.
djwhittaker14 said:
Thanks for the help. It would primarily be for road use with plans to do some track work in the future, so thanks for the advice. It would definitely only be for summer/dry weather and I have been in touch with Jon who was very helpful. He has sent me the invoices for some of the work and after a lot of research it all seems like the right and expensive stuff (DVA head, piper cams, DK crankshaft, omega pistons and liners, arrow rods, K6 Ecu etc). I didn’t think too much about the noise of the straight cut gears however it is a 5 speed and not a 6 speed when looking through the invoices so potentially slightly better suited to touring. Not 100% on the ratios though.
The ratio of the LSD will be key too. Typically a 5 speed gearbox will have a long 5th, whereas the 6 speed will have a top (6th) gear equivalent to 4th in the 5 speed. But if the internals have been switched to straight cut obviously the ratios could be anything.From my own experience, not having a heater is uncomfortable, even in the summer, though you could always have a heated seat pad instead. Early mornings or motorway work to get to tracks can be very cold. I would also check to see if it has a wiper mechanism installed and holes in the scuttle. Adding a windscreen is easy, if you sell the cage you'll get more than enough to pay for an FIA bar and screen, but other stuff will be a ballache to fit.
Likewise, understanding what needs attention in the engine and on what schedule - for instance I assume the lifters will be solid instead of hydraulic, so when were they last set? But it really does look like a lovely car.
These are the engine and gearbox specs as sent over:
Engine:
- 1.8 litre K series, producing 235BHP, 160 ftlbs torque at 8500 RPM;
- Dave Andrews (DVA Power) modified cylinder head;
- 1227 Piper cams;
- Piper adjustable pulleys;
- Jenvey 42mm throttle bodies;
- Pico 480 injectors;
- Carbon fibre induction trumpets and backing plate;
- Adjustable fuel regulator;
- Emerald ECU;
- Doug Kiddie Crankshaft;
- Arrow connecting rods;
- Omega floating pistons;
- QED banded liners;
- Steel oil pump gear;
- Vandervill bearings;
- Lightened flywheel;
- AP7.25 racing clutch;
- Drysump oiling system;
- Large alloy race radiator;
- Stainless steel, braided fuel lines
Gearbox:
- Quaife close ratio, straight cut 5 speed gearbox;
- Quick quick shift linkages;
- ZF limited slip differential;
Engine:
- 1.8 litre K series, producing 235BHP, 160 ftlbs torque at 8500 RPM;
- Dave Andrews (DVA Power) modified cylinder head;
- 1227 Piper cams;
- Piper adjustable pulleys;
- Jenvey 42mm throttle bodies;
- Pico 480 injectors;
- Carbon fibre induction trumpets and backing plate;
- Adjustable fuel regulator;
- Emerald ECU;
- Doug Kiddie Crankshaft;
- Arrow connecting rods;
- Omega floating pistons;
- QED banded liners;
- Steel oil pump gear;
- Vandervill bearings;
- Lightened flywheel;
- AP7.25 racing clutch;
- Drysump oiling system;
- Large alloy race radiator;
- Stainless steel, braided fuel lines
Gearbox:
- Quaife close ratio, straight cut 5 speed gearbox;
- Quick quick shift linkages;
- ZF limited slip differential;
I think others will be well placed to comment over myself, but that looks like a very well specced engine. You have to assume it was built well, but, and it's quite a but, I've always understood that a >200bhp, >8k rev limit k-series engine is essentially a serviceable part. To be able to sustain that high a rev range the tolerances need to be spot on and everything working tickety boo so regular rebuilds and inspections are the order of the day. You have to take the mileage at face value too, but track cars can occasionally have the speedo disconnected on track to assist in meeting the annual mileage limits set by insurance.
I note too it has an Emerald ECU - one advantage of this is it will carry multiple (I think three) maps, so in theory, you could have the engine tuned in stages:
1) Mad track power map
2) Lower rev limit day-to-day map
3) Wet weather/can I try your Caterham please map?
I note too it has an Emerald ECU - one advantage of this is it will carry multiple (I think three) maps, so in theory, you could have the engine tuned in stages:
1) Mad track power map
2) Lower rev limit day-to-day map
3) Wet weather/can I try your Caterham please map?
I think this is probably a sale or return , saw the car for sale privately on PH.
Great spec., the engine must be worth £6k plus.
Straight cut gear box are noisy too.
If I was looking to buy I would consider the Superlight R they have for sale as that has leather seats, heater, windscreen, weather gear etc and probably be easier to sell on ...... seems very cheap for a dealer to sell at £20k
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/r510ggu
Great spec., the engine must be worth £6k plus.
Straight cut gear box are noisy too.
If I was looking to buy I would consider the Superlight R they have for sale as that has leather seats, heater, windscreen, weather gear etc and probably be easier to sell on ...... seems very cheap for a dealer to sell at £20k
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/r510ggu
Morning folks,
I built the car in question originally & sold it to the present owner in 2004. Feel free to PM me if you want to know any details.
Your question was would it make a good road car?
In its present spec you'd have to want to be focused on every drive to enjoy it. The clutch is race spec so a bit on/off, suspension is firm, the aero screen is cool till you get a stone in the forehead or it starts to rain. Engine wise the high spec K engine is very tractable on the road. The gearbox is not overly noisy compared to the wind noise.... though it is a earplug car at all times though in my opinion.
If you want a fast car to enjoy on the road and do the odd track day or sprint, then a Weather equipped R or modern spec car would be a better choice.
The great things about Caterham's is you can modify and make them what you want. Changing the scuttle and putting windscreen on is only a afternoons work, changing the cage again is half a day at most. I still have the original scuttle in the attic to support changing it back to windscreen if you wanted.
BR
Dave
I built the car in question originally & sold it to the present owner in 2004. Feel free to PM me if you want to know any details.
Your question was would it make a good road car?
In its present spec you'd have to want to be focused on every drive to enjoy it. The clutch is race spec so a bit on/off, suspension is firm, the aero screen is cool till you get a stone in the forehead or it starts to rain. Engine wise the high spec K engine is very tractable on the road. The gearbox is not overly noisy compared to the wind noise.... though it is a earplug car at all times though in my opinion.
If you want a fast car to enjoy on the road and do the odd track day or sprint, then a Weather equipped R or modern spec car would be a better choice.
The great things about Caterham's is you can modify and make them what you want. Changing the scuttle and putting windscreen on is only a afternoons work, changing the cage again is half a day at most. I still have the original scuttle in the attic to support changing it back to windscreen if you wanted.
BR
Dave
Would also echo the 'awesome car, but wasted/not the right one for your use' sentiment.
I'd not be worried about the engine itself, but it's probably a bit wasted. tuned k's are tractable, but they still make all the power high - as Dave Andrews says on his site, consider what you want the engine for. As a lower end example taking mine from 135bhp 'supersport' spec to a big valve flowed head and a bit over 150bhp changed nothing below 5000rpm (and a lot above, but how often are you there on road).
On those cams, it's on solid lifters, so they need adjusting occasionally. Anecdotally I hear that the valve springs should be changed after certain milages, but I don't know the if that's reality, or just paranoia.
Possibly better buying a car that's more aligned to your use in the first place - there are many out there.
I'd not be worried about the engine itself, but it's probably a bit wasted. tuned k's are tractable, but they still make all the power high - as Dave Andrews says on his site, consider what you want the engine for. As a lower end example taking mine from 135bhp 'supersport' spec to a big valve flowed head and a bit over 150bhp changed nothing below 5000rpm (and a lot above, but how often are you there on road).
On those cams, it's on solid lifters, so they need adjusting occasionally. Anecdotally I hear that the valve springs should be changed after certain milages, but I don't know the if that's reality, or just paranoia.
Possibly better buying a car that's more aligned to your use in the first place - there are many out there.
upsidedownmark said:
Would also echo the 'awesome car, but wasted/not the right one for your use' sentiment.
On those cams, it's on solid lifters, so they need adjusting occasionally. Anecdotally I hear that the valve springs should be changed after certain milages, but I don't know the if that's reality, or just paranoia.
It is a solid lifter cam in this engine. If your actively racing the K series the springs should be checked to make sure the installed height still maintains the spec'd seat pressure at the end of each season along with regular race prep clearance checks throughout the season. This is not just for the K, but any engine that regularly see's 8500RPM.On those cams, it's on solid lifters, so they need adjusting occasionally. Anecdotally I hear that the valve springs should be changed after certain milages, but I don't know the if that's reality, or just paranoia.
I would suggest that most of the R500's out there, running similar spec, have not had this level of maintenance and you don't hear a lot of real issues pertaining to springs.
The car in question has only had about 1500 miles put on it in the last 16 years and I don't believe it hasn't been actively raced in that time. Millwood should have the service history from the current owner so you can verify what's been done.
Im heading over to Millwood Friday morning to go see the car for myself. Kind of looking forward to it.
djwhittaker14 said:
Hi Dave. Would like to PM but appears you don’t accept emails currently which is the only way I can find how to do it. Any ideas?
I just tried to pm you and got the same message. Not familiar with this forum so don't know. BR
Dave
Edited by UKDUCsRUS on Thursday 20th February 12:57
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