Differences between Caterham and Westfield?
Discussion
"Their dominance in the series is why Caterham dropped out and started their own one make series, rather than compete with the Strikers"
Really? What a load of rubbish. Caterham started their own series because they got banned from most of the big production car racing championships in the early 80's. I wonder what has a bigger profile now the televised R400 racing or a load of copycat cars?
Really? What a load of rubbish. Caterham started their own series because they got banned from most of the big production car racing championships in the early 80's. I wonder what has a bigger profile now the televised R400 racing or a load of copycat cars?
dino ferrana said:
"Their dominance in the series is why Caterham dropped out and started their own one make series, rather than compete with the Strikers"
Really? What a load of rubbish. Caterham started their own series because they got banned from most of the big production car racing championships in the early 80's. I wonder what has a bigger profile now the televised R400 racing or a load of copycat cars?
Very true
dino ferrana said:
"Their dominance in the series is why Caterham dropped out and started their own one make series, rather than compete with the Strikers"
Really? What a load of rubbish. Caterham started their own series because they got banned from most of the big production car racing championships in the early 80's. I wonder what has a bigger profile now the televised R400 racing or a load of copycat cars?
OK perhaps I should have written "one of the reasons why". Sometimes a few words make all the difference!
I've got a Sylva Fury and sometimes pit crew for a Caterham team running R500s in the JCC, so i have experience of both. I love Caterhams, they are superb cars and miles better built than Sylvas, but you pay for it. But when they did race against each other the Sylvas could beat the Caterhams because the Striker mk4 Clubmans was simply 10mph quicker down the straights than a similarly engined Caterham purely because of aerodynamics. Caterhams did used to race in the kit car series, and lost to Sylvas, but as the best/premium kit builder trying to promote themselves it was much more sensible to do so in the way they subsequently did rather lose to - as you rightly say - a bunch of copycat cars in what is really a low cost, fun championship for amatuer drivers(even though the Sylva Striker Clubmans isn't a copy of anything), and I'm glad Caterham have done what they did as they are now respected by people as the world beaters that they are.
Press release I found on Caterhams site!
Who do you crew for Jenkinscomp?
Caterham Motorsport has welcomed its inclusion within the MSA Race Championship Control Panel's promoted circuit racing structure, which was revealed on Friday (14 Nov).
Caterham has been given Level 3 status within the structure, which is aimed at offering a clear ladder of progression to drivers seeking a career path. Level 2 status within the framework's sports car division has been awarded to the Porsche Carrera Cup; Level 1 is the British GT Championship.
"Many Caterham drivers have gone on to excel in sports car racing," said Caterham Cars managing director Simon Nearn, "and it is pleasing to see that recognised. Competitors looking towards a future in sports car racing now have mapped out for them a clear career path, and Caterham Cars is delighted to be playing its part."
Announcing the structure, Motor Sports Association chief executive Colin Hilton said: "We are pleased with the quality of the championships that have been successful. The structure provides drivers and team owners with a stable set-up for the next three years and enables the championship administrators to make plans for the longer-term future."
The winner of the 2002 Caterham Superlight Challenge and Eurocup championships, Barry Horne, is one driver already well on the way up the sports car ladder. Following his success in Caterhams he moved into the Porsche Carrera Cup for 2003 and won that championship also.
Other Caterham champions who have progressed to international sports car racing include Robert Nearn, Shaun Balfe, Bart Hayden, Richard Hay, Michael Caine and Rob Barff.
The prospects for Caterham Motorsport in 2004 are looking bright, with burgeoning interest in the Motorsport News Caterham Roadsport Challenge, the Powertrain Caterham R400 Challenge and the Autosport Caterham Eurocup. The evo Caterham Academy filled its 2004 grids four months ago.
Who do you crew for Jenkinscomp?
Caterham Motorsport has welcomed its inclusion within the MSA Race Championship Control Panel's promoted circuit racing structure, which was revealed on Friday (14 Nov).
Caterham has been given Level 3 status within the structure, which is aimed at offering a clear ladder of progression to drivers seeking a career path. Level 2 status within the framework's sports car division has been awarded to the Porsche Carrera Cup; Level 1 is the British GT Championship.
"Many Caterham drivers have gone on to excel in sports car racing," said Caterham Cars managing director Simon Nearn, "and it is pleasing to see that recognised. Competitors looking towards a future in sports car racing now have mapped out for them a clear career path, and Caterham Cars is delighted to be playing its part."
Announcing the structure, Motor Sports Association chief executive Colin Hilton said: "We are pleased with the quality of the championships that have been successful. The structure provides drivers and team owners with a stable set-up for the next three years and enables the championship administrators to make plans for the longer-term future."
The winner of the 2002 Caterham Superlight Challenge and Eurocup championships, Barry Horne, is one driver already well on the way up the sports car ladder. Following his success in Caterhams he moved into the Porsche Carrera Cup for 2003 and won that championship also.
Other Caterham champions who have progressed to international sports car racing include Robert Nearn, Shaun Balfe, Bart Hayden, Richard Hay, Michael Caine and Rob Barff.
The prospects for Caterham Motorsport in 2004 are looking bright, with burgeoning interest in the Motorsport News Caterham Roadsport Challenge, the Powertrain Caterham R400 Challenge and the Autosport Caterham Eurocup. The evo Caterham Academy filled its 2004 grids four months ago.
If I could afford to buy a seven-esque car right now I'd be looking at a Birkin before anything else.
It's fairly true that most people will tend to recommend what they own. It comes down to
a)how much you can afford
b)the opinion you hold of the engineering quality of the marque
c)desired performance
d)aesthetics (FWIW)
e)the amount of weight you put in 'heritage'
f)the owner's 'scene'
I could give you my own opinions on those points, but as it's not me who's buying the car...
It's fairly true that most people will tend to recommend what they own. It comes down to
a)how much you can afford
b)the opinion you hold of the engineering quality of the marque
c)desired performance
d)aesthetics (FWIW)
e)the amount of weight you put in 'heritage'
f)the owner's 'scene'
I could give you my own opinions on those points, but as it's not me who's buying the car...
The Birkin is a good car but it still is a copy and doesn't have the heritage. You may think that doesn't matter but it does when it costs nearly what a Caterham does (believe me they get close when you start speccing them up). Come resale time you will get a tough time selling a car like a Birkin.
The fact that Caterham are so heavily involved in racing goes in their favour for me. Afterall most of the trick new bits are tested in the racing environment which means they get tested far harder than I use them!
The fact that Caterham are so heavily involved in racing goes in their favour for me. Afterall most of the trick new bits are tested in the racing environment which means they get tested far harder than I use them!
dino ferrana said:
... but it still is a copy and doesn't have the heritage. You may think that doesn't matter
You're right, I don't.
To me the heritage is irrelevant to the reason for having a car of this kind. As to it being a copy, well as long as it's not trying to pass itself off as a Caterham then again it's not relevant.
dino ferrana said:
Come resale time you will get a tough time selling a car like a Birkin.
This assumes there would come a time to sell the car and is a common argument made in support of Caterhams. For an everyday car then resale value can be hugely important - but for that once in a lifetime purchase that isn't going to be sold then...
dino ferrana said:
The fact that Caterham are so heavily involved in racing goes in their favour for me.
If this was a requirement then something like a striker would be a reasonable choice. Or a fury, if the precise 7 shape wasn't required.
All this is IMO, of course
and other peoples mileage will certainly vary...
Steve-B said:
we have a Caterham SV and a tuned 200bhp engine. we had a Cerbera SPeedSux before the SV.
i'd never own another TVR. you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers from the SV. it's night and day worlds better than the TVR.
we've been all over Europe in it, Rome, Montreaux, Spa, Nurburgring.
very pleased with it. my issue of why Caterham was choosen was mileage of the petrol tanks, and build quality.
caterham won on both hands down, plus there's loads more.
I have a Westfield, having previously had a Cerbera S6 too...difference is mine is a bit more pokey than standard...it seems the additional power has very little difference on lap times, but the manner in which you get there will be different....
Because Westfield is a bit wider, I think you can lever in bigger lumps if you like the noise of your griff, for example, you might just take the engine out, and squeeze it in with some fettling....just don't expect to corner quite as quick as the lighter versions without spending much money......
They are all good fun though....
Yoda said:
... but it still is a copy and doesn't have the heritage. You may think that doesn't matter
You're right, I don't.
To me the heritage is irrelevant to the reason for having a car of this kind. As to it being a copy, well as long as it's not trying to pass itself off as a Caterham then again it's not relevant.
...
Hang on, then why do you own a Caterham acording to your profile Yoda?
Hi Wirefree - I guess you must have a 21 then if your Caterham only just resembles a Lotus 7 - or perhaps you have severe myopia - check out a photo of the Series 3 next time you have a few minutes spare and compare your car to that. Granted you've probably got cycle wings, but doesn't the shape of the bonnet, the side panels, bonnet line and rear of your car just remind you an incy wincy little bit of the Lotus 7 Sereis 3....and perhaps the Series 2, 1 and perhaps even the Lotus 6...always assuming that you even know anything of those models...
I can't even begin to guess your identity on Blatchat, but it does amuse me to see you complaining about this being similar to the drivel on Blatchat and yet still be content to fan the flames on this forum.
I can't even begin to guess your identity on Blatchat, but it does amuse me to see you complaining about this being similar to the drivel on Blatchat and yet still be content to fan the flames on this forum.
My point being that Yoda said.....
"If I could afford to buy a seven-esque car right now I'd be looking at a Birkin before anything else."
Clearly when he was looking for a 7, he bought a Caterham not a Birkin.
Which makes it an odd statement.
Personaly, I like Caterhams and the idea of it being the real thing does matter to me. The quality of engineering is superb and I also think the market for used Caterhams is strong and consistant whereas I struggled like hell to sell my Westfield.
If it doesn't bother you then you can save yourself an awful lot of money.
"If I could afford to buy a seven-esque car right now I'd be looking at a Birkin before anything else."
Clearly when he was looking for a 7, he bought a Caterham not a Birkin.
Which makes it an odd statement.
Personaly, I like Caterhams and the idea of it being the real thing does matter to me. The quality of engineering is superb and I also think the market for used Caterhams is strong and consistant whereas I struggled like hell to sell my Westfield.
If it doesn't bother you then you can save yourself an awful lot of money.
JenkinsComp said:
OK perhaps I should have written "one of the reasons why". Sometimes a few words make all the difference!
But when they did race against each other the Sylvas could beat the Caterhams because the Striker mk4 Clubmans was simply 10mph quicker down the straights than a similarly engined Caterham purely because of aerodynamics. Caterhams did used to race in the kit car series, and lost to Sylvas, but as the best/premium kit builder trying to promote themselves it was much more sensible to do so in the way they subsequently did rather lose to - as you rightly say - a bunch of copycat cars in what is really a low cost, fun championship for amatuer drivers(even though the Sylva Striker Clubmans isn't a copy of anything)
I actually race in the kit car series (with a Westfield), and have done so on and off for the last 10 years. In that time, Caterham have never been eligible for the series, as they have their own.
If they used to race in kits prior to 93, and then decided to leave, I am sure it was more likely to be because they wanted to set up their own series, rather than because they were being beaten by Sylvas.
Also, your comment about the clubmans type cars having a 10mph advantage over a similarly engined 7 due to aerodynamics is rubbish.
Additionally, Sylvas have won the majority of championships because they make up the majority of the field. Most of the quick drivers run Sylvas, and there are normally only one or two Westfields compared to the large number of Sylvas. Yes, this year the championship was won by a Sylva, but he was run very close by someone driving a Procomp LA Gold (another 7 type car), and I've beaten numerous Sylvas with my Westfield. The key factor is how good the driver is, not the make of car they drive.
I'm not knocking them, but in my opinion, they're not as superior as you make out, and having seen the results of various racing accidents, I would prefer to hit something in my Westfield than a Sylva!
Paul V said:
What are the main differences between the two, having driven a 140 BHP Caterham yesterday I’d really want something with more power, but can’t afford that in a Caterham with the wider body.
How does the Westfield chassis compare to the Caterham? How similar are they to drive (next plan is the go up to Westfield to try one for myself)?
Hi Paul,
I've owned several Westfields over the last 10 years, and currently race one, however have only limited experience of driving a Caterham, so can't really comment how they compare when pressing on. I can say however that I don't feel like the Westfield wants to bite back at every opportunity, and that's even when driving it at 10/10's in a race.
They are very adjustable, so you can easily tweak the car (both Westfield and Caterham) to suit your own driving preferences, so you can change it from a twitchy car prone to oversteer to a more stable car which understeers in just a few minutes.
The quality of the Westfield is very good, although a lot comes down to who actually built the car. A well built Westfield will be better than a poorly built Caterham, and vice-versa, so best to judge each car you look at on it's own merits.
The other main difference between the two makes is that Westfield have their own independent rear suspension, which is generally thought to be better than Caterham's De-Dion system. I've not compared them though, so can't say which I prefer.
If you're still interested in looking at Westfields, I'd recommend Terry Nightingale in Newmarket, who specialises in them.
Hope this helps!
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