Discussion
Kghaas said:
How fantastic to have one of the developers commenting in this thread!
Do you have any more period pictures?
Do you have any info or pics of the clubman prototype?
Hi Kghaas,Do you have any more period pictures?
Do you have any info or pics of the clubman prototype?
Sorry I have no Seven 'Clubman' data previous to the Mark 7 Series 3 to post.
We did however have the following 7 Series 4 based projects for competition use up to when Chapman closed Components/Racing.
Firstly the 7X which was initially my project design based on the S4 chassis with De Dion rear suspension but was completed by Mike Pilbeam of Team Lotus when I started on the Mark 47D project and I think he changed it to wishbone IRS.
This Seven X was a one-off project solely created for Tim Goss to win the clubmans championship.
Mike Warner asked me to chuck together a F100 version based on my original design concept but there was too little time to do this.
After the birth of Lotus Racing I was asked to draw up a Series 4 for Bill Brack to race in the Sebring 12 hours. That was OK BUT the S4 not having doors put it into the Sports Prototype class against Ferraris, Lolas etc. The project was not completed due to illness and probably the reality was that you don't get good publicity from being an 'also ran'.
The final Clubmans project, intended for for serious club racers, was based on my original Seven X drawings using a De Dion axle at the rear and was at rolling chassis stage when Lotus Racing was wound up.
I don't have more information or hardcopy that I can post as even work related photography was strictly controlled for obvious reasons.
Kghaas said:
Realy interesting info.
Can you confirm that the Clubman and/or 7X project was with cycle wings?
I had designed the 7X to have tyre hugging cycle wings that had to be very lightweight as they were unsprung weight, turning with the steering and I think these were still on the car after Tim Goss won the championship when I gave it a blast round the Hethel track. The later Clubman car also would have had similar wings fitted but as I said we never got quite that far with it.Can you confirm that the Clubman and/or 7X project was with cycle wings?
LuckesGTV6 said:
I had designed the 7X to have tyre hugging cycle wings that had to be very lightweight as they were unsprung weight, turning with the steering and I think these were still on the car after Tim Goss won the championship when I gave it a blast round the Hethel track. The later Clubman car also would have had similar wings fitted but as I said we never got quite that far with it.
Thanks. Super info.Here is my Tribute version of the clubman
I've studied this thread at length, many thanks to all the contributors, I've upgraded my car here's my thoughts on the suggestions, and a few of my own, hope you like 'em
Really worthwhile S4 Mods:-
1. Fit F&R Tie Bars - Undoubtably the best upgrade for any S4, ought to have been fitted when New by Lotus - gives a massive improvement to the chassis stiffness - all the necessary mounts are already on all S4 chassis:-
Get a local Machine shop to Make them, should cost £4-500 [see photo's earlier in this thread]
or ask me for dimensions/photo's.
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2. Fit rear Discs - Saves 1.5Kg of unsprung weight/side, you also need to upgrade Master Cyl to 3/4" to increase fluid capacity.
Use Sierra rear calipers& handbrake cable,fiesta mk2 front discs,buy caliper brackets off ebay
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3. Fit Non return 'gate' in Fuel tank inlet - stop's petrol leaking through Filler cap most S4's leak petrol via the petrol filler cap
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Go down local scrappies and get one from a scrap car - most current cars use them [see photo]
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4. Fit 105E diff casing - saves 4Kg of unsprung weight over standard English Axle casing [see photo showing difference]
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5, Fit LSD or Quaife ATB - gives better rear traction.
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6, Fit 5 speed 'type 9' gearbox - gives good touring/motorway gearing and improves MPG
IMO all these are essential to improve the already excellent S4
Once again Thanks for the inspired posting from previous posters.
Rene7
Really worthwhile S4 Mods:-
1. Fit F&R Tie Bars - Undoubtably the best upgrade for any S4, ought to have been fitted when New by Lotus - gives a massive improvement to the chassis stiffness - all the necessary mounts are already on all S4 chassis:-
Get a local Machine shop to Make them, should cost £4-500 [see photo's earlier in this thread]
or ask me for dimensions/photo's.
>
2. Fit rear Discs - Saves 1.5Kg of unsprung weight/side, you also need to upgrade Master Cyl to 3/4" to increase fluid capacity.
Use Sierra rear calipers& handbrake cable,fiesta mk2 front discs,buy caliper brackets off ebay
>
3. Fit Non return 'gate' in Fuel tank inlet - stop's petrol leaking through Filler cap most S4's leak petrol via the petrol filler cap
>
>
Go down local scrappies and get one from a scrap car - most current cars use them [see photo]
>
>
4. Fit 105E diff casing - saves 4Kg of unsprung weight over standard English Axle casing [see photo showing difference]
>
>
>
5, Fit LSD or Quaife ATB - gives better rear traction.
>
6, Fit 5 speed 'type 9' gearbox - gives good touring/motorway gearing and improves MPG
IMO all these are essential to improve the already excellent S4
Once again Thanks for the inspired posting from previous posters.
Rene7
My S4 Twin-cam back on the road after 25 years.
Bought in Oct'14 as an unfinished project. I've had great fun rebuilding/replacing most of the mechanical bits. Just need side window frames to complete.
Still running in the reconditioned engine but it's very lively up to 3,000 rpm.
Anyone taking an S4 to the 60th anniversary do at Donnington?
Richard
Bought in Oct'14 as an unfinished project. I've had great fun rebuilding/replacing most of the mechanical bits. Just need side window frames to complete.
Still running in the reconditioned engine but it's very lively up to 3,000 rpm.
Anyone taking an S4 to the 60th anniversary do at Donnington?
Richard
Hi Richard good to see another S4 on the road. Where are you in UK? maybe we could arrange a drive out together?
I'd like to go to the Lotus 60th at Donnington park but you have to go for 3 days at £50 a day AND be a member of L7 club, at whatever that now costs [probably £60]
IMO it all seems way too expensive [and boring] to park in muddy field for 3 days - Maybe If they did single day passes I'd maybe consider it, but Donnington is 200 motorway miles each way for me, I went to L7 50th bash in Norfolk and was bored and that was only 2 days and on that occasion I did the 2 blats - though they were around crowded roads so really not very good for 7's.
For such an iconic car as the Lotus 7 the club need to organise a event which encourages owners to attend - not line the clubs pockets at the owners expense - ownership of a lotus 7 ought to be the entry ticket to the 60th event IMO - undoubtably many will argue against this.
Hope to meet you sometime contact me via PH mail if you want to sort out drive
I'd like to go to the Lotus 60th at Donnington park but you have to go for 3 days at £50 a day AND be a member of L7 club, at whatever that now costs [probably £60]
IMO it all seems way too expensive [and boring] to park in muddy field for 3 days - Maybe If they did single day passes I'd maybe consider it, but Donnington is 200 motorway miles each way for me, I went to L7 50th bash in Norfolk and was bored and that was only 2 days and on that occasion I did the 2 blats - though they were around crowded roads so really not very good for 7's.
For such an iconic car as the Lotus 7 the club need to organise a event which encourages owners to attend - not line the clubs pockets at the owners expense - ownership of a lotus 7 ought to be the entry ticket to the 60th event IMO - undoubtably many will argue against this.
Hope to meet you sometime contact me via PH mail if you want to sort out drive
Hi Rene7,
If you are 200 miles from Donnington I'm probably a similar distance in Newark. My car very much work in progress, so just pottering about locally to run in the engine and shake down any problems.
Agree with you on the costs/time involved with the 60th event, but no doubt very expensive to hire Donnington for the weekend.
Richard
If you are 200 miles from Donnington I'm probably a similar distance in Newark. My car very much work in progress, so just pottering about locally to run in the engine and shake down any problems.
Agree with you on the costs/time involved with the 60th event, but no doubt very expensive to hire Donnington for the weekend.
Richard
Richard
Pity you are so far away in Newark - I used to go every year to the kit car show there in June, During the 15 years or so I went there I only ever saw 1 S4 Lotus 7 [see photo] I think the year was 2002. Waited ages to talk to the owner, but he managed to avoid me!!
Oh well - the car was later [2007ish] advertised on ebay - don't think it sold though he was asking too much.
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Pity you are so far away in Newark - I used to go every year to the kit car show there in June, During the 15 years or so I went there I only ever saw 1 S4 Lotus 7 [see photo] I think the year was 2002. Waited ages to talk to the owner, but he managed to avoid me!!
Oh well - the car was later [2007ish] advertised on ebay - don't think it sold though he was asking too much.
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Hi Rene7
I can't imagine Hajo ever parting with his S4. Like many of us he probably has some other project on the go.
The first 150 miles with my car have confirmed the leaking fuel filler problem. You appear to have a flap in both the tank neck and filler neck; what vehicle were they from?
After fitting a new hood I'm keen to try making side window frames later this year. If your frames are original would you mind taking a rubbing/tracing from one, together with sizes for frame section etc? (very happy to refund all costs) The plan is to get a local sheet metal firm to fold 2 mm aluminium into channel sections that will form the frame, with 12 mm o/d x 8 mm i/d tubes for hinges. For the windows I may use a single sheet of Perspex with rally-style sliding panel. I assume you need to get a hand out through the window to twist the door handle open. I already have the plastic lower door pieces that hang below the frames.
You mentioned roll bars on your car that are not original. I thought all S4s had the front roll bar but an option being the rear brace sat in the boot floor? The limited slip diff must make a big difference to taming the rear end, but after buying the Quaife unit what's involved with fitting?
Hope my post wakes up a few more S4 owners!
Richard
I can't imagine Hajo ever parting with his S4. Like many of us he probably has some other project on the go.
The first 150 miles with my car have confirmed the leaking fuel filler problem. You appear to have a flap in both the tank neck and filler neck; what vehicle were they from?
After fitting a new hood I'm keen to try making side window frames later this year. If your frames are original would you mind taking a rubbing/tracing from one, together with sizes for frame section etc? (very happy to refund all costs) The plan is to get a local sheet metal firm to fold 2 mm aluminium into channel sections that will form the frame, with 12 mm o/d x 8 mm i/d tubes for hinges. For the windows I may use a single sheet of Perspex with rally-style sliding panel. I assume you need to get a hand out through the window to twist the door handle open. I already have the plastic lower door pieces that hang below the frames.
You mentioned roll bars on your car that are not original. I thought all S4s had the front roll bar but an option being the rear brace sat in the boot floor? The limited slip diff must make a big difference to taming the rear end, but after buying the Quaife unit what's involved with fitting?
Hope my post wakes up a few more S4 owners!
Richard
RichardL7S4
>>The first 150 miles with my car have confirmed the leaking fuel filler problem. You appear to have a flap in both the tank neck and filler neck; what vehicle were they from?
Mine came from a MGF - but any car from 1990 on will have them, just go down a scrappies and get some, OOI the leaking filler problem is well and truely sorted, I can fill the tank and not one drop leaks Only slight problem with the flaps is they slowdown the petrol filling the tank, I can live with that, its great to have no petrol leaking
>>After fitting a new hood I'm keen to try making side window frames later this year. If your frames are original would you mind taking a rubbing/tracing from one, together with sizes for frame section etc? (very happy to refund all costs) The plan is to get a local sheet metal firm to fold 2 mm aluminium into channel sections that will form the frame, with 12 mm o/d x 8 mm i/d tubes for hinges. For the windows I may use a single sheet of Perspex with rally-style sliding panel. I assume you need to get a hand out through the window to twist the door handle open. I already have the plastic lower door pieces that hang below the frames.
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Making the window frames will be a lot of work [Expensive too with the ally welding involved}. I'll take a photo of mine and dimension it up - won't be till tomorrow tho' - The sliding windows rattle, so ensure you have some kind of 'Runner' for the perspex to slide on, this will help with the rattly windows.
I reach around the frame to twist the opening latch without any problems
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>>You mentioned roll bars on your car that are not original. I thought all S4s had the front roll bar but an option being the rear brace sat in the boot floor? The limited slip diff must make a big difference to taming the rear end, but after buying the Quaife unit what's involved with fitting?
>
All S4's have an 'anti roll bar ARB' this fits to the bolt protruding from the bottom of shock absorber - What I refer to is the 'tie bar' fitted to the top of the front wishbone mounts, see the photo's in the thread - its the bar that fits in front of the radiator
Hope this helps
Rene
>>The first 150 miles with my car have confirmed the leaking fuel filler problem. You appear to have a flap in both the tank neck and filler neck; what vehicle were they from?
Mine came from a MGF - but any car from 1990 on will have them, just go down a scrappies and get some, OOI the leaking filler problem is well and truely sorted, I can fill the tank and not one drop leaks
Only slight problem with the flaps is they slowdown the petrol filling the tank, I can live with that, its great to have no petrol leaking>>After fitting a new hood I'm keen to try making side window frames later this year. If your frames are original would you mind taking a rubbing/tracing from one, together with sizes for frame section etc? (very happy to refund all costs) The plan is to get a local sheet metal firm to fold 2 mm aluminium into channel sections that will form the frame, with 12 mm o/d x 8 mm i/d tubes for hinges. For the windows I may use a single sheet of Perspex with rally-style sliding panel. I assume you need to get a hand out through the window to twist the door handle open. I already have the plastic lower door pieces that hang below the frames.
>
Making the window frames will be a lot of work [Expensive too with the ally welding involved}. I'll take a photo of mine and dimension it up - won't be till tomorrow tho' - The sliding windows rattle, so ensure you have some kind of 'Runner' for the perspex to slide on, this will help with the rattly windows.
I reach around the frame to twist the opening latch without any problems
>
>>You mentioned roll bars on your car that are not original. I thought all S4s had the front roll bar but an option being the rear brace sat in the boot floor? The limited slip diff must make a big difference to taming the rear end, but after buying the Quaife unit what's involved with fitting?
>
All S4's have an 'anti roll bar ARB' this fits to the bolt protruding from the bottom of shock absorber - What I refer to is the 'tie bar' fitted to the top of the front wishbone mounts, see the photo's in the thread - its the bar that fits in front of the radiator
Hope this helps
Rene
Edited by rene7 on Wednesday 19th July 23:04
Hi Rene
Front tie bar now understood, thanks.
I don't mind putting some time into making the window frames. Perhaps mild steel would be easier, as I could tack the parts together myself and the final welding should not be as expensive as with aluminium.
Photos of the frames have been posted on here before, but close ups of details like hinge to frame joints would help. Overall sizes and cross sections through the frame should be enough, as the outside shape is governed by the gap bordered by the screen and hood. I'll no doubt make a Mk1 and Mk2 version before getting it right!
The rain has stopped so out again this afternoon to put more miles on.
Richard
Front tie bar now understood, thanks.
I don't mind putting some time into making the window frames. Perhaps mild steel would be easier, as I could tack the parts together myself and the final welding should not be as expensive as with aluminium.
Photos of the frames have been posted on here before, but close ups of details like hinge to frame joints would help. Overall sizes and cross sections through the frame should be enough, as the outside shape is governed by the gap bordered by the screen and hood. I'll no doubt make a Mk1 and Mk2 version before getting it right!
The rain has stopped so out again this afternoon to put more miles on.
Richard
Richard
Here's the pics i promised - If you rotate & scale them in a CAD or decent drawing program [Corel draw for example] you will be able to get accurate sizes for the frames.
The actual section of the frame is unimportant - just buy the perspex to suit your sized runner channels
The split door hinges can be bought from Redline or Caterham.
Don't forget to to make a left and Right hand frame, easy to make 2 lefts or 2 rights
Hope this helps
Rene
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Here's the pics i promised - If you rotate & scale them in a CAD or decent drawing program [Corel draw for example] you will be able to get accurate sizes for the frames.
The actual section of the frame is unimportant - just buy the perspex to suit your sized runner channels
The split door hinges can be bought from Redline or Caterham.
Don't forget to to make a left and Right hand frame, easy to make 2 lefts or 2 rights
Hope this helps
Rene
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That's great thanks Rene.
I already have some hinges from Redline but they are one-piece rods with a nylon bush each end. Other photos I've seen show the hinge part of the frame to be in one piece whereas yours are split. Not of any consequence as either way will work.
Really draughty out on the road today, so I may make up a pair of temporary "quarter lights" until the frames are made.
Appreciate the quick response with the photos.
Richard
I already have some hinges from Redline but they are one-piece rods with a nylon bush each end. Other photos I've seen show the hinge part of the frame to be in one piece whereas yours are split. Not of any consequence as either way will work.
Really draughty out on the road today, so I may make up a pair of temporary "quarter lights" until the frames are made.
Appreciate the quick response with the photos.
Richard
Richard
Came across this pic of an S4 fitted with 2 Front tiebars, I remember measuring up for this on my car but the Zetec engine and larger/deeper Radiator prevented me fitting the bar shown within the engine bay!
Your Lotus TC engine may allow you room to fit the bar in this location? Let us all know
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Came across this pic of an S4 fitted with 2 Front tiebars, I remember measuring up for this on my car but the Zetec engine and larger/deeper Radiator prevented me fitting the bar shown within the engine bay!
Your Lotus TC engine may allow you room to fit the bar in this location? Let us all know
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