Discussion
Hajo,
Thanks for explaining how a modern limited slip fits. Definitely worth while if I keep the car and want to use the performance. Apparently my car had a Quaife installed in the 1980's when it was successfully used for Hill Climbs and Sprints.
Interesting how these things have progressed since I ran a 1650 cc autocross Anglia in the mid sixties. We used to get the sun and planet gears brazed together. It would last a couple of meetings before falling apart, and quite scary to drive on a wet road !
Richard
Thanks for explaining how a modern limited slip fits. Definitely worth while if I keep the car and want to use the performance. Apparently my car had a Quaife installed in the 1980's when it was successfully used for Hill Climbs and Sprints.
Interesting how these things have progressed since I ran a 1650 cc autocross Anglia in the mid sixties. We used to get the sun and planet gears brazed together. It would last a couple of meetings before falling apart, and quite scary to drive on a wet road !
Richard
For the history guys:
At the early design stage when the Type 60 was just a quarter of its size, the decision had to be made in which direction the "new seven" should go. So the mentioned model showed two different sides as you can see from this photo (as mentioned in the well known books). The model was put outside the Hethel test track and shot there from different angles. You can see that there the wooden model is resting on 4 studs to take the weight. The hood was made from black coloured paper, normally used to wrap parcels.
|https://thumbsnap.com/RHTPAogR[/url]
Period 1970 original, unused sticker which I got from an old days gentleman, who was where the music played
At the early design stage when the Type 60 was just a quarter of its size, the decision had to be made in which direction the "new seven" should go. So the mentioned model showed two different sides as you can see from this photo (as mentioned in the well known books). The model was put outside the Hethel test track and shot there from different angles. You can see that there the wooden model is resting on 4 studs to take the weight. The hood was made from black coloured paper, normally used to wrap parcels.
|https://thumbsnap.com/RHTPAogR[/url]Period 1970 original, unused sticker which I got from an old days gentleman, who was where the music played
Edited by 7s4whatelse on Thursday 3rd August 10:49
Hello.
There is no mention of the year when these posts were first added, but if you would like information on the one-off Lotus 7X, as well as the one-off Series 4 Clubman Car which was shown in pieces at and then fully completed after the London Racing Car Show (used in hillclimbs), please visit www.SimpleSevens.org and click on the crossed Union Jack and Canadian flags on the bottom of the main page. Also check the Lotus Seven Register (by John Watson) which shows photos of the 7X as raced by Tim Goss. The 7X changed its appearance throughout the initial racing season with wider rear wings, different fixtures for the front wheel-hugging mudguards/wings and also to the nose cone. A couple of contributors provided photos of the Clubman Series 4 Seven car in pieces at the Racing Car Show (originally from Cars and Car Conversions Magazine), and also as being constructed at the Lotus Factory (from a German magazine article provided by Hajo). Many years ago, a photo was published on the front page of the Lotus Seven Club magazine possibly showing the Clubman car competing in a hillclimb. No credit was provided (as far as I can remember) indicating if it was the one-off Clubman car. It had semi circular (180 degree) front cycle wings the same as the pile of body parts displayed at the London Racing Car Show (cycle wings shown underneath the main bodywork). A gentleman in the U.K. now owns all the main bits and pieces and plans to eventually put the Seven Series 4 Clubman car back together. One photo provided by him shows the special front uprights manufactured for the Clubman car that he has refurbished . These are definitely not Standard Triumph manufacture or design, but appear to be specially fabricated for/by Lotus for this car. Hope this helps, and that the above info. is not old or stale news? W.F.
There is no mention of the year when these posts were first added, but if you would like information on the one-off Lotus 7X, as well as the one-off Series 4 Clubman Car which was shown in pieces at and then fully completed after the London Racing Car Show (used in hillclimbs), please visit www.SimpleSevens.org and click on the crossed Union Jack and Canadian flags on the bottom of the main page. Also check the Lotus Seven Register (by John Watson) which shows photos of the 7X as raced by Tim Goss. The 7X changed its appearance throughout the initial racing season with wider rear wings, different fixtures for the front wheel-hugging mudguards/wings and also to the nose cone. A couple of contributors provided photos of the Clubman Series 4 Seven car in pieces at the Racing Car Show (originally from Cars and Car Conversions Magazine), and also as being constructed at the Lotus Factory (from a German magazine article provided by Hajo). Many years ago, a photo was published on the front page of the Lotus Seven Club magazine possibly showing the Clubman car competing in a hillclimb. No credit was provided (as far as I can remember) indicating if it was the one-off Clubman car. It had semi circular (180 degree) front cycle wings the same as the pile of body parts displayed at the London Racing Car Show (cycle wings shown underneath the main bodywork). A gentleman in the U.K. now owns all the main bits and pieces and plans to eventually put the Seven Series 4 Clubman car back together. One photo provided by him shows the special front uprights manufactured for the Clubman car that he has refurbished . These are definitely not Standard Triumph manufacture or design, but appear to be specially fabricated for/by Lotus for this car. Hope this helps, and that the above info. is not old or stale news? W.F.
Edited by LotusSevenFan on Tuesday 31st October 01:21
Hi Again, Just a P.S.
My post above really refers to page 33 of this thread. Sorry for any confusion.
Also a bit of history regarding the Steel Brothers Series 4 built in New Zealand. Steel Bros. decided to cease production of their version of the Series 4 in 1979 due to N.Z. legislation which made production non viable (information provided by a Director at Steel Bros.). They sold the jigs and mouldings on with them finally ending up with Club Lotus (Auckland), New Zealand. I had contacted CLNZ in early 2000s to inquire regarding a new chassis frame that they offered to build for me. Non-car related circumstances forced me to abandon the project. A CLNZ club member advised me that they loaned out the mouldings to club members, and could fabricate most body parts and frame sections for a fee. Shipping could be made affordable as they had contacts who regularly shipped from N.Z. to Europe and North America. I do not know if the frame jigs and body moulds are still available or even in acceptable condition (as of 2017). A web search should provide contact details, as mine are now quite old. Cheers, W.F.
My post above really refers to page 33 of this thread. Sorry for any confusion.
Also a bit of history regarding the Steel Brothers Series 4 built in New Zealand. Steel Bros. decided to cease production of their version of the Series 4 in 1979 due to N.Z. legislation which made production non viable (information provided by a Director at Steel Bros.). They sold the jigs and mouldings on with them finally ending up with Club Lotus (Auckland), New Zealand. I had contacted CLNZ in early 2000s to inquire regarding a new chassis frame that they offered to build for me. Non-car related circumstances forced me to abandon the project. A CLNZ club member advised me that they loaned out the mouldings to club members, and could fabricate most body parts and frame sections for a fee. Shipping could be made affordable as they had contacts who regularly shipped from N.Z. to Europe and North America. I do not know if the frame jigs and body moulds are still available or even in acceptable condition (as of 2017). A web search should provide contact details, as mine are now quite old. Cheers, W.F.
Edited by LotusSevenFan on Tuesday 31st October 23:13
Question on late S4 side screens. Exterior of side screen has a circular knob, my understanding is; if inside car, reach outside and use knob to open side screen. Is there an inside lever or latch to make this easier? What does the inside latch on the side screen and body look like? Can the side screen be closed without rotating the exterior knob? I have the later screens and knobs not sure how they attach. Car came with the vinyl side screens, converting to newer type, I hope.
Any news on Hajo? I have tried to contact him with no success. Thank you in advance. Steve V. S4 in Arizona USA
Any news on Hajo? I have tried to contact him with no success. Thank you in advance. Steve V. S4 in Arizona USA
mrrvman
Yes they are simple push to close, twist to open, the same fittings are used on both early vinyl and later solid sidesreens. only difference is the body location part for the latch receiver - the vinyl screens will have it fitted higher up on the bodywork, if you compare the old vinyl with the new solid screens it's easy to understand why this is.
To open It's easy to put your arm out to twist them, or you can open perspex sliding window [on the solid screens] to twist them.
I've converted mine to solid screens and body now has an upper and lower receiver!!
DO you have a Sun hood fitted for use in Arizona?? Must be extremely hot without one
Hope this helps
Rene
Yes they are simple push to close, twist to open, the same fittings are used on both early vinyl and later solid sidesreens. only difference is the body location part for the latch receiver - the vinyl screens will have it fitted higher up on the bodywork, if you compare the old vinyl with the new solid screens it's easy to understand why this is.
To open It's easy to put your arm out to twist them, or you can open perspex sliding window [on the solid screens] to twist them.
I've converted mine to solid screens and body now has an upper and lower receiver!!
DO you have a Sun hood fitted for use in Arizona?? Must be extremely hot without one
Hope this helps
Rene
Interesting post. I'm making new windows to fit later type fibreglass doors. The windows comprise 2 x 3mm alloy frames enclosing a single 4mm polycarbonate window.
The original plan was to fit a sliding polycarbonate panel as race/rally cars but I've gone off that idea now the frames are almost finished.
With the hood in place I have to find a way of closing and opening the doors. Having fitted new handles and catches all works well from outside.
Present thinking has me looking along the lines of attaching a lever to the striker pin to operate from inside. Trouble is there is very little space between the door and body. Alternatively a slot could be cut in the well around the handle with a lever passing from the handle to the inside of the car.
Has anyone found a more practical solution?
Hajo gave me lots of advice with the new windows and even provided a pattern from which the frames were laser-cut. I'll try a direct email.
Regards, Richard
The original plan was to fit a sliding polycarbonate panel as race/rally cars but I've gone off that idea now the frames are almost finished.
With the hood in place I have to find a way of closing and opening the doors. Having fitted new handles and catches all works well from outside.
Present thinking has me looking along the lines of attaching a lever to the striker pin to operate from inside. Trouble is there is very little space between the door and body. Alternatively a slot could be cut in the well around the handle with a lever passing from the handle to the inside of the car.
Has anyone found a more practical solution?
Hajo gave me lots of advice with the new windows and even provided a pattern from which the frames were laser-cut. I'll try a direct email.
Regards, Richard
LuckesGTV6 said:
Hi Guys,
Just trying to help clear up some points on the Seven Series 4 thread.
Firstly, my credentials:-
In 1969 I had just been promoted to Senior Design Engineer at Components and the Type 60 (7 Series 4) was my first project after completing the work I had done with Dave Baldwin on the S3 (and other projects).
I was responsible for the 'Package design' of the vehicle (body layout and all mechanical components including weather protection & hood). The body design was completed by Alan Barrett who also made the excellent body moulds for the self-coloured shells (Mirror Finish, no filler possible).
I'd like to correct a misleading statement in Graham Arnolds book on the Seven, where he stated that Dave Baldwin designed the vehicle, this has caused much confusion, and annoyance!
Dave Baldwin was involved with the S4 insofar as his advice was sought on a couple of occasions and also driving the prototype twincam to a F3? race in Germany where he sneaked off on a jolly with Emerson Fittipaldi who gave it a blast around the Nordschleife. Dave said that Emerson was quite impressed, particularly as it was on road tyres.
As far as I know Chapman could have been aware that the car was underway as a type number had been allocated and a suitable section of the workshop had been partitioned and was under lock & key (3 keyholders only = M.D.W.W, A.B and self).
Chapman usually trawled the drawing boards 'out of hours' but he was a bit preoccupied at this time and also I had been asked to keep any 'evidence' off my board.
The project lead time was also extremely short, the layout package and running 'skate' design started early July 1969 and 10 cars were required by Jan 7th 1970, so this could explain his surprise at the presentation!
Although there were 2 development cars, yellow & blue, available at the time I thought that only one car was used, a red 1600cc pre production car. (might be a case of brain fag though)
It's a shame that innacuracies creep in over time. Perhaps the above will help put a bit of the record straight?
Picture is of the quarter scale model made to my original layout drawings. Note the non-production rear wing shape to take upright elliptical rootes group rear lights.
Hello LuckesGTV6. Just trying to help clear up some points on the Seven Series 4 thread.
Firstly, my credentials:-
In 1969 I had just been promoted to Senior Design Engineer at Components and the Type 60 (7 Series 4) was my first project after completing the work I had done with Dave Baldwin on the S3 (and other projects).
I was responsible for the 'Package design' of the vehicle (body layout and all mechanical components including weather protection & hood). The body design was completed by Alan Barrett who also made the excellent body moulds for the self-coloured shells (Mirror Finish, no filler possible).
I'd like to correct a misleading statement in Graham Arnolds book on the Seven, where he stated that Dave Baldwin designed the vehicle, this has caused much confusion, and annoyance!
Dave Baldwin was involved with the S4 insofar as his advice was sought on a couple of occasions and also driving the prototype twincam to a F3? race in Germany where he sneaked off on a jolly with Emerson Fittipaldi who gave it a blast around the Nordschleife. Dave said that Emerson was quite impressed, particularly as it was on road tyres.
As far as I know Chapman could have been aware that the car was underway as a type number had been allocated and a suitable section of the workshop had been partitioned and was under lock & key (3 keyholders only = M.D.W.W, A.B and self).
Chapman usually trawled the drawing boards 'out of hours' but he was a bit preoccupied at this time and also I had been asked to keep any 'evidence' off my board.
The project lead time was also extremely short, the layout package and running 'skate' design started early July 1969 and 10 cars were required by Jan 7th 1970, so this could explain his surprise at the presentation!
Although there were 2 development cars, yellow & blue, available at the time I thought that only one car was used, a red 1600cc pre production car. (might be a case of brain fag though)
It's a shame that innacuracies creep in over time. Perhaps the above will help put a bit of the record straight?
Picture is of the quarter scale model made to my original layout drawings. Note the non-production rear wing shape to take upright elliptical rootes group rear lights.
Edited by LuckesGTV6 on Tuesday 21st February 17:08
Thank you for your post and for clearing up the discrepancy regarding the Series 4 and your role in designing this car. A couple of books on the Lotus Seven show Dave Baldwin as the designer along with yourself and Alan Barrett. Also the 7X - after you designed the chassis - was originally credited to Martin Wade and Mike Pilbeam, but Mike Pilbeam has it listed as his design R12 on his web site.
The Series 4 Clubman was still very much your chassis design along with a few modifications from Alan Barrett's original Series 4 body design. A 1" cross tube had been welded on at the very front top of the chassis to tie the upper front wishbone mounts (towers) more or less together. Aluminium had replaced the sheet steel side panels, and 180 degree wrap-around front cycle wings had been designed for the car. Some bonnet modifications also occurred. The car was completed after the London Racing Car Show, and raced in hillclimbs, although at least one correspondent thought that it had been returned to the production line to be completed as a regular Series 4. The rear De-Dion tube and associated parts looks decidedly Lotus 11 in appearance.
I was fortunate to have a number of written communications with John Robinson, and he also mentioned Dave Baldwin as the designer of the Series 4, but re-reading his letters, I note that he was working with Dave Baldwin on a Series 3 car that was used as a mobile test bed to attach new suspension components to be later incorporated on the Series 4. They had raised the steering rack geometry to improve the bump steer on the Series 3, and added racing type adjustable ball joints. John mentioned he and his wife driving the experimental Series 3 car from Norfolk to Bournemouth to visit a relative on a regular basis to try out the mods.. John had welded up some suspension links (Watts links as used on the S.4), and when Dave Baldwin and he took the car for a spin on the factory track, John decided to learn how to weld proficiently, as he feared that the initial cobbled welds that he had done could have broken due to the way Mr. Baldwin was driving the car. This is perhaps the reason John mistakenly credited Mr. Baldwin with your design as he was working closely with him on some of the suspension and steering components. (My speculation only, I would have to contact John for confirmation).
Note: John fully documents the story of the Series 4 from start to finish at SimpleSevens.org. Just scroll down the main page to the crossed Union Jack and Canadian Flags at the Anglo Canadian Corner.
The 7X seems to have incorporated the full Series 4 tubular chassis with a Series 3 rear section grafted on - at least that's what it appears to be in photos of the car. Sheet ally was used on the car, and the nose cone was Series 4 in appearance on the original build (but later cut and the top lowered). A Lotus 41 independent rear suspension package was incorporated (one correspondent quotes the type 61, but they seem basically the same?). I have always liked the look of this car, and perhaps Mr. Mallock and a few other Clubman car designers also designed some of their cars with similar appearance? The Type 37, 7X and the Series 4 Clubman were fantastic designs. They all appear to have had their weaknesses that racing greatly exaggerated, but were race winners none-the-less. A number of F1 racing drivers started their racing careers with the Seven, and Gordon Murray still counts the Lotus Seven as one of his favourite cars of all time.
Thank you Mr. L. for your great designs.
Cheers.
LSF
Hi again guys,
Have only today re-visited the forum and scanned the comment following my original posts.
One thing I have noticed briefly is that as far as I remember the first development car WPW 477 H (yellow pigmented body shown in one of the pictures) was followed later by the second development car WPW 577 H which appears in many of the Alan Barrett publicity pictures of the time and had a blue self pigmented body and was allocated to Alan for body development and 477, the prototype car, was allocated to me for mechanical development work and driver appraisal. I distinctly remember reserving these two numbers with the DVLC.
I know 577 still existed recently and beneath whatever colours it has subsequently been sprayed the blue gel should be visible.
I don't think 477 exists any more as the desirable special twin cam engine was removed some time later and a Ford engine substituted and it is no longer listed on DVLA.
I noticed also the updated styling model on which Alan had developed the finalised rear wing shape but I was not invited to view it at the time.
Both Alan and I had been promised the development cars as a gift from Mike Warner for achieving the 'impossible' but they were sold off in the wreckage of Lotus Racing after Warner suddenly left.
I'm going to study the posts in more detail and follow the external references quoted and will post again in a few days time.
Have only today re-visited the forum and scanned the comment following my original posts.
One thing I have noticed briefly is that as far as I remember the first development car WPW 477 H (yellow pigmented body shown in one of the pictures) was followed later by the second development car WPW 577 H which appears in many of the Alan Barrett publicity pictures of the time and had a blue self pigmented body and was allocated to Alan for body development and 477, the prototype car, was allocated to me for mechanical development work and driver appraisal. I distinctly remember reserving these two numbers with the DVLC.
I know 577 still existed recently and beneath whatever colours it has subsequently been sprayed the blue gel should be visible.
I don't think 477 exists any more as the desirable special twin cam engine was removed some time later and a Ford engine substituted and it is no longer listed on DVLA.
I noticed also the updated styling model on which Alan had developed the finalised rear wing shape but I was not invited to view it at the time.
Both Alan and I had been promised the development cars as a gift from Mike Warner for achieving the 'impossible' but they were sold off in the wreckage of Lotus Racing after Warner suddenly left.
I'm going to study the posts in more detail and follow the external references quoted and will post again in a few days time.
New to this site.
I have a 1972 S4 which was sold through a dealer in Perth, Scotland and now is near Perth Western Australia.
Trying to find original colours for the S4. Mine has been resprayed green by a previous owner. I want to bring it back to original. Looking under the guards I have found red pigmented fibreglass. I believe it may be carnival red although, having been able to find some original photos, the red looks a little darker than carnival red. Could be the photos don't show the colours very well.
What were the original colours for the S4?
Am going for carnival red for now as I have been reliably informed that red makes them go faster!
I have a 1972 S4 which was sold through a dealer in Perth, Scotland and now is near Perth Western Australia.
Trying to find original colours for the S4. Mine has been resprayed green by a previous owner. I want to bring it back to original. Looking under the guards I have found red pigmented fibreglass. I believe it may be carnival red although, having been able to find some original photos, the red looks a little darker than carnival red. Could be the photos don't show the colours very well.
What were the original colours for the S4?
Am going for carnival red for now as I have been reliably informed that red makes them go faster!
GinG15 said:
short hi-jack of this thread:
did all steel-brothers mk4 been badged as a lotus and hence named as "Lotus" in the reg-docs?
did they start building them in 1971 or 1973?
Yes. They were all badged as Lotus under the licencing agreement. The last few with the 907 engines strictly shouldn't have been though as they were outside the scope of the agreement. They were evaluating the project in 1972 but production didn't start until 1974 and concluded in 1979.did all steel-brothers mk4 been badged as a lotus and hence named as "Lotus" in the reg-docs?
did they start building them in 1971 or 1973?
Edited by GinG15 on Saturday 4th November 10:26
http://lotus7.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t...
http://lotus7.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t...
I have PER2J and it will be slowly swimming to Tasmania shortly. This is chassis 2651, the second production car and first with the BVTC as I understand. Documentation shows that it was the gold painted show car then sold by Lotus and first registered 5/1/71.
I would be interested in the comments from LuckesGTV6 as his recollections are priceless.
Oh yes, and sorry for stealing another 7 from Pommieland and letting it run free in the sunburned country.
I would be interested in the comments from LuckesGTV6 as his recollections are priceless.
Oh yes, and sorry for stealing another 7 from Pommieland and letting it run free in the sunburned country.
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