Are Vauxhall/Opel making a comeback?
Discussion
s m said:
James_33 said:
Some people simply hate them because it doesn't fit in with the PH narrative that we should all be driving 911's and anything below that is dog s
t.
I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
Any problems with bore-scoring or IMS? t.I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
The ironic thing is most people only need a car to get from A to B, I would imagine the majority of people couldn't even tell you if their car was front or rear wheel drive. But the thing we are forgetting here is the most important thing to most people is perceived image, and unless you are driving some aggressive German metal then you are clearly a failure in life.
white_goodman said:
I
That being said, I was a little sad when GM bailed out of Vauxhall/Opel a few years ago. GM have not proved themselves to be a great parent company (Saab, Lotus etc) and having spent some time in the US, Chevrolet cars are just as bland and uninspiring as most recent Vauxhalls/Opels in my experience but the GM/Vauxhall/Opel relationship was a long one.
GM bought Vauxhall in 1925 and Opel in 1929.That being said, I was a little sad when GM bailed out of Vauxhall/Opel a few years ago. GM have not proved themselves to be a great parent company (Saab, Lotus etc) and having spent some time in the US, Chevrolet cars are just as bland and uninspiring as most recent Vauxhalls/Opels in my experience but the GM/Vauxhall/Opel relationship was a long one.
I have had a good experience with Vauxhalls over the years;
I like my Mk.2 Cavalier SRi, my Vectra B V6 SRi & my Omega Elite.
I get them often as hire cars and the stuff from about 2095-2019 was awful.
However I agree that some of the recent cars are improving.
The pverly intrusive driver aids can do one. But if that’s how you get a good NCAP rating now I ‘hate the game not the player’ so to speak.
I’m going to be in the market for a first car for my daughter in 2 years so am looking hard at today’s hire cars as that’s almost certainly the kind of thing I’ll be buying used for her.
Currently like the Focus best. But nothing wrong with an Astra now.
Edited by Stick Legs on Sunday 16th January 12:10
Joey Deacon said:
But the thing we are forgetting here is the most important thing to most people is perceived image, and unless you are driving some aggressive German metal then you are clearly a failure in life.
The irony here is that my Insignia B is 100% German built by Opel and, because they are rare and mine is metallic grey, people keep believing it is an Audi so the way it looks can't be the issue.The other thing is that Vauxhall's have been doing pretty well in online car reviews for quite a while now (not all) so when I bought the Insignia, it was the pick in its class. This Autocar test of the Astra 200 was also pretty favourable https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/astr...
Similarly, current reviews of the new Mokka are reasonable. So it boils down to whether it is just plain badge snobbery though I confess that Vauxhall's advertising, in the past, hasn't helped.
Pothole said:
Saleen836 said:
IMO Vauxhall made a mistake by ending production of the Astra Van
Absolute fastest thing on a UK motorway in its day.Joey Deacon said:
s m said:
James_33 said:
Some people simply hate them because it doesn't fit in with the PH narrative that we should all be driving 911's and anything below that is dog st.
I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
Any problems with bore-scoring or IMS? t.I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
The ironic thing is most people only need a car to get from A to B, I would imagine the majority of people couldn't even tell you if their car was front or rear wheel drive. But the thing we are forgetting here is the most important thing to most people is perceived image, and unless you are driving some aggressive German metal then you are clearly a failure in life.
rainmakerraw said:
Evanivitch said:
Are you sure you've driven anything made in the last 5 years? These are pretty much standard safety features today.
2019 BMW X2 xDrive 20i Sport - no such nonsense2016 Skoda Superb 2.0 TSI 220 - no such nonsense
2015 Mazda 6 2.0 SkyActiv - no such nonsense
My wife did have a 2018 S-Max with lane departure warning but you could permanently turn it off, which I did. Certainly nothing involving cutting the throttle you applied on bends or steering lanes for you.
2015 Superb Lane Assist Optional
2013 Mazda 6 Lane Assist not available
Pretty much essential for it to be standard safety equipment to get better than a 3 star NCAP rating.
white_goodman said:
Is that fair? Is a Vauxhall buyer really any less discerning than a Nissan or a VW buyer or a buyer of some of the overpriced tat that BMW is churning out these days? At least they paid less for the privilege of ownership possibly. Most modern cars are quite boring. Very competent yes but there aren't the huge gulfs in quality/the driving experience that there used to be. That being said, I find it difficult to see how anyone had done their research and tried out a few cars and come to the conclusion that an old Vauxhall Mokka was the car for them. Not a bad car per se but pretty unremarkable. If they like the look of it, it has the right features, it's the right price, is easy to drive and there is a conveniently located dealer then that's enough for many people though and does the driving experience really matter on a car like that?
Couldn't agree more. The majority of my family and friends who literally couldn't care less about cars all have Volkswagens (and the more glamorous ones have Audis). All purchased because 'VW reliability'. They couldn't care less if it was made out of playdough with 3 wheels - they perceive it as a quality product and therefore no need to spend (what they see as boring) time looking at other marques in showrooms.Silver75 said:
white_goodman said:
Is that fair? Is a Vauxhall buyer really any less discerning than a Nissan or a VW buyer or a buyer of some of the overpriced tat that BMW is churning out these days? At least they paid less for the privilege of ownership possibly. Most modern cars are quite boring. Very competent yes but there aren't the huge gulfs in quality/the driving experience that there used to be. That being said, I find it difficult to see how anyone had done their research and tried out a few cars and come to the conclusion that an old Vauxhall Mokka was the car for them. Not a bad car per se but pretty unremarkable. If they like the look of it, it has the right features, it's the right price, is easy to drive and there is a conveniently located dealer then that's enough for many people though and does the driving experience really matter on a car like that?
Couldn't agree more. The majority of my family and friends who literally couldn't care less about cars all have Volkswagens (and the more glamorous ones have Audis). All purchased because 'VW reliability'. They couldn't care less if it was made out of playdough with 3 wheels - they perceive it as a quality product and therefore no need to spend (what they see as boring) time looking at other marques in showrooms.I think Vauxhall/Opel's problems go back to the 1990s, maybe even a little further. In the days when many cars had known faults and flaws, the mk 2 & mk 3 Cavaliers were very successful by being decent all-rounders with no major flaws and, with the mk 3 in particular, strong engines. As has already been noted, they have an extensive dealer network and the Astra and Nova in the 80s being seen as similar (i.e. no major flaws), in some ways, Vauxhall were starting to out-Ford Ford. What helped this was that Ford's bread and butter models weren't that great and more conservative types didn't appreciate the styling of the Sierra.
I certainly remember that most of the company cars in the car park at work were Cavaliers after the mk 3 was launched.
But then in the mid 90s, a few things happened. After the nadir of the mk 5 Escort, Ford got their mojo back with the Mondeo (and subsequent Focus) and highlighted that the Vauxhalls' weren't the best handling cars around. It also seemed that most of the mainstream stuff had fewer flaws and PCP meant that people could at least consider buying a BMW, Audi or Merc for the same monthly payment as a Mondeo or Cavalier.
So much depended on the Cavalier's replacement. To have any chance, it had to take on the Mondeo in dynamic terms and have a fresh look; and it was basically a face-lifted mk 3 Cavalier with a new name - Vectra - which somehow, over its lifetime, ended up with worse engines.
In a world that now needed (for car journalists, at least) cars to be interesting and handle well, the only thing that the Vectra excelled at was bland dullness.
The same could be said for the Astras of the period too and it wasn't long before the Corsa would follow, although it managed to stay cutesie enough to keep selling in reasonable numbers.
This was akin to the point Ford found themselves in around 1990 with models that weren't particularly competitive and were selling mostly to fleets and on brand loyalty. But Ford, to their credit, got their act together by 1993 and haven't really looked back.
It seemed to take GM/Vauxhall/Opel about 15 years to realise there was a problem!
The first Insignia wasn't a bad effort by all accounts - leaps and bounds ahead of the Vectra it replaced anyway; and the previous two iterations of Astra have been pretty decent all-rounders, at least according to the reviews. Never class-leaders, but never that far behind either and pretty good value - particularly used.
I tend to think of the recent Astras of being the motoring equivalent of the Dave TV Channel - surprisingly adequate!
Saleen836 said:
Pothole said:
Saleen836 said:
IMO Vauxhall made a mistake by ending production of the Astra Van
Absolute fastest thing on a UK motorway in its day.Frankthered said:
So much depended on the Cavalier's replacement. To have any chance, it had to take on the Mondeo in dynamic terms and have a fresh look; and it was basically a face-lifted mk 3 Cavalier with a new name - Vectra - which somehow, over its lifetime, ended up with worse engines.
In a world that now needed (for car journalists, at least) cars to be interesting and handle well, the only thing that the Vectra excelled at was bland dullness.
Mechanically there were more similarities between the mk2 and mk3 Cavalier, than between the Cavalier and the Vectra. Nonetheless it's true that the Mondeo, and even the 405 and Primera a few years earlier had moved things on a lot, and the Vectra wasn't enough of an improvement over the Cavalier to compete against these cars.In a world that now needed (for car journalists, at least) cars to be interesting and handle well, the only thing that the Vectra excelled at was bland dullness.
Joey Deacon said:
s m said:
James_33 said:
Some people simply hate them because it doesn't fit in with the PH narrative that we should all be driving 911's and anything below that is dog st.
I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
Any problems with bore-scoring or IMS? t.I had a 2006 astra some years ago, was only a 1.4, cheap and cheerful as it needed to be as we had just had a baby and expensive to run cars were out the question, never let me down, started first time every time, cheap to insure/fuel/tax etc, what more do you want from a car that's meant for nothing more than getting you from A to B?
The ironic thing is most people only need a car to get from A to B, I would imagine the majority of people couldn't even tell you if their car was front or rear wheel drive. But the thing we are forgetting here is the most important thing to most people is perceived image, and unless you are driving some aggressive German metal then you are clearly a failure in life.
Cant spoil the premium dream, though I think that is largely over as German cars are everywhere and very accessible, so I think folk are getting less bothered about what brand they have if the car is good.
I am really not arsed about brands, its all about the car, its just the German brands tend to make the stuff with the big engines. I know a few people who for them its brands first and foremost, they would sit on a spike in something that drove like an 1950s van if it had the right badge on the bonnet.
Nothing particularly wrong with either approach, or total ambivalence as long as it does its job but sometimes the prejudice to a particular brand means you miss out on some pretty decent cars in the name of appearing successful, whilst costing yourself more and nobody really gives a s
t anyway.No, they're not making a comeback; they're just churning out largely re-badged PSA products. If you like PSA products then that's fine, but they haven't made a car that's of any interest to me since the last generation Insignia VXR.
Now I realise that I am hardly representative of the 'person in the street' but it still makes me a little sad, having grown up with Vauxhall products as my father never owned anything else, plus owning three of my own over the years.
Now I realise that I am hardly representative of the 'person in the street' but it still makes me a little sad, having grown up with Vauxhall products as my father never owned anything else, plus owning three of my own over the years.
Unless they come up with some sort of world beating EV offering, I can't see it.
Consider what makes people choose a particular car.
Keen drivers rate dynamics and how the car drives and feels. Vauxhalls are perfectly competent, but unremarkable. Ford excelled here for a few years of course, and won over a lot of enthusiasts, but Vauxhall never had that dynamic polish, and still don't.
Most buyers of course don't care about the above, and care about the badge and image. These people go directly to German, don't pass go, don't collect £200 (they ignore Ford, Mazda, Honda, etc as well)....
The budget conscious look at the cost. Very few people buy new cars for cash, with about 80% opting for a PCP. The German manufacturers have seemingly become finance companies who happen to make cars, and offset higher list prices with crazy, subsidised finance deals that make them cheaper to have on your drive for 2-4 years than a Vauxhall equivalent. So even if you're not fussed about the badge, German can often be the cheapest option. If you are fussed about the badge, it's a double win.
Some might buy based on liking the shape.
Some might buy out of brand loyalty having had several before and having had a decent experience. I know someone who drives a Mokka, having had one before that, and a Corsa before that which have all been troublefree and easy to own. Better the devil you know, and all that.
How many people test drive Vauxhalls alongside the Germans at all, and of those who do, how many choose them, particularly once the monthlies have been quoted?
As a used proposition, it's very different of course. Astras are usefully cheaper than Focuses and Golfs secondhand.
Consider what makes people choose a particular car.
Keen drivers rate dynamics and how the car drives and feels. Vauxhalls are perfectly competent, but unremarkable. Ford excelled here for a few years of course, and won over a lot of enthusiasts, but Vauxhall never had that dynamic polish, and still don't.
Most buyers of course don't care about the above, and care about the badge and image. These people go directly to German, don't pass go, don't collect £200 (they ignore Ford, Mazda, Honda, etc as well)....
The budget conscious look at the cost. Very few people buy new cars for cash, with about 80% opting for a PCP. The German manufacturers have seemingly become finance companies who happen to make cars, and offset higher list prices with crazy, subsidised finance deals that make them cheaper to have on your drive for 2-4 years than a Vauxhall equivalent. So even if you're not fussed about the badge, German can often be the cheapest option. If you are fussed about the badge, it's a double win.
Some might buy based on liking the shape.
Some might buy out of brand loyalty having had several before and having had a decent experience. I know someone who drives a Mokka, having had one before that, and a Corsa before that which have all been troublefree and easy to own. Better the devil you know, and all that.
How many people test drive Vauxhalls alongside the Germans at all, and of those who do, how many choose them, particularly once the monthlies have been quoted?
As a used proposition, it's very different of course. Astras are usefully cheaper than Focuses and Golfs secondhand.
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