Building Up a Top Notch Car Sim Cockpit

[Rick101]

The attraction for me in iRacing is that it's 'real'.

I've had a quick try of other sims but simply don't get the feeling of excitement racing against the computer as I do against a real person who as invested in both time and money into this.

[Monty Python]

Don't know if there's anything here that's of interest:

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/codemasters-rac...t:56e798ff733462ca899548b2:1&utm_source=Humble+Bundle+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017_12_06_codemastersf1_bundle_MPA&linkID=&utm_content=cta_button

[seefarr]

I would also say that VR is trans-formative for simulators - I don't play any game without it now. I've been playing only Project Cars 2 since it came out mainly because of the great track selection. It is a very hungry beast for graphics with VR, so you'll need a beefy graphics card. Assetto Corsa and Dirt are also fantastic in VR. If you do get Project Cars 2, a PH member has set up a cool time trial competition with comparative telemetry:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I have converted a real car seat onto my Obutto rig. This was the original:



After trawling ebay for weeks I ended up finding a seat from an Audi A7 for not a lot of money. To mate it onto the rig I ordered some steel plates of the correct size from these guys for I think £12 delivered!

https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/easy-order

I just drilled holes for the runners on the seat and the rig and bolted it up. Tricks for young players include the fact that the runners on the seat aren't mounted centrally on the seat base and they aren't even mounted parallel to the direction the seat is facing!



Being a 12 way adjustable seat I also had to power the electrics. The seat came with four separate looms built in (movement, sensors, heating and airbag) and I couldn't find a manual with any details of what each did and which wire was which. And I didn't really want to set the airbag off. I ended up tracing out the movement loom and bought a cheap 12V 10A power supply from Amazon to power it. And it works!!



And it looks good and is pretty damn comfy too.

[GuitarTech]

Here ist my rig. Since I took the photos I've added an analogue handbrake to be able to drive properly in Dirt Rally, but it's still a work in progress.
Cost? Around €5000, and counting...
[url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/fJecRxHv[/url]

Edited by GuitarTech on Sunday 10th December 14:24

[Hoofy]

That's mental. I love it. In fact, I love the one before, too. Not sure my gf would respect me any more if I set that kind of thing up, though.

[GuitarTech]

Hoofy said:

That's mental. I love it. In fact, I love the one before, too. Not sure my gf would respect me any more if I set that kind of thing up, though.

I gave up smoking three years ago, and decided to renew my 10 year old rig with the €200 a month that I'd saved by giving up smoking. And anyway, I'm 63, the kids are out of the house, and who knows how long I still have to have a bit of fun. Life's too short to worry about stuff like that.
They have a saying here in Germany "the money isn't gone, it's just that someone else has it now"

Edited by GuitarTech on Sunday 10th December 14:26

[Hoofy]

GuitarTech said:

Hoofy said:

That's mental. I love it. In fact, I love the one before, too. Not sure my gf would respect me any more if I set that kind of thing up, though.

I gave up smoking three years ago, and decided to renew my 10 year old rig with the €200 a month that I'd saved by giving up smoking. And anyway, I'm 63, the kids are out of the house, and who knows how long I still have to have a bit of fun. Life's too short to worry about stuff like that.
They have a saying here in Germany "the money isn't gone, it's just that someone else has it now"

Ha. Well, I never smoked so where is this extra cash coming from?

[Northbloke]

Great thread and some great set-ups. Been going to do this for years but never got a round tuit. Sounds like with this VR thing now's the time (except missed Black Friday, damn).

So Oculus Rift and Touch controllers already bought (Amazon £349, looks like it has gone back up for now).

Looks like I'll have to get the Playseat mentioned above (spacesaving good) although seems a lot for a glorified deckchair. (Tesco had it for £140 but out of stock now)

https://www.boysstuff.co.uk/gaming-chairs/playseat...

What else do folks recommend for a 3 pedal set, wheel and gearstick to fit with the above and where best to buy it from? I guess I want the best bang for your buck in the £200-£600 range for all 3. I'll go cheapest unless there's a must have feature that is worth paying more for. Can't wait to get this set up now and have a go. Finger ready to press order buttons.

As an aside, the kids are approaching driving age now and I reckon this will be a good way to get them used to the car controls which would save a packet on lessons (so realistic gearstick important). Anyone else done that with their nippers? Also is there any normal driving software (roads, junctions etc) that they could use with the VR stuff. Reckon that could be a winner too.

[Rick101]

I really like my SSH shifter. Was about £70 iirc but a long wait for it.

[GuitarTech]

Northbloke said:

Great thread and some great set-ups. Been going to do this for years but never got a round tuit. Sounds like with this VR thing now's the time (except missed Black Friday, damn).

So Oculus Rift and Touch controllers already bought (Amazon £349, looks like it has gone back up for now).

Looks like I'll have to get the Playseat mentioned above (spacesaving good) although seems a lot for a glorified deckchair. (Tesco had it for £140 but out of stock now)

https://www.boysstuff.co.uk/gaming-chairs/playseat...

What else do folks recommend for a 3 pedal set, wheel and gearstick to fit with the above and where best to buy it from? I guess I want the best bang for your buck in the £200-£600 range for all 3. I'll go cheapest unless there's a must have feature that is worth paying more for. Can't wait to get this set up now and have a go. Finger ready to press order buttons.

As an aside, the kids are approaching driving age now and I reckon this will be a good way to get them used to the car controls which would save a packet on lessons (so realistic gearstick important). Anyone else done that with their nippers? Also is there any normal driving software (roads, junctions etc) that they could use with the VR stuff. Reckon that could be a winner too.

I have a set of thrustmaster TP3A-Pro pedals, and a thrustmaster T300RS with a 28GT leather rim for sale. They still have guarantee till June '18
Then you'd just need a shifter. Just sayin'....
But seriously, I'm in Germany, and I assume you're in the UK: the shipping would cost an arm and a leg for you, the servobase and the pedals weigh a ton.
Otherwise look at thrustmaster gear new: €600 isn't going to buy a complete set of Fanatec equipment. I have the fanatec shifter, v3 pedals with the optional brake pedal damper, and the handbrake: they cost €760 altogether. Then you still need a wheel: the Fanatec CS v 2.5 servobase with two rims will set you back about €1100 (That's why I have a thrustmaster wheel: my new TS-PC cost under half of that, and all my TM rims fit it, due to TMs ecosystem
The Fanatec elite range is somewhat cheaper, but not as nice. For what you're prepared to spend, TM is better value for money. amazon is your friend for TM stuff, Thrustmaster EU are conciderally more expensive.

Edited by GuitarTech on Sunday 10th December 14:25

[ambuletz]

m4tti said:

mp3manager said:

Top end you say??

http://www.simroom.com/driving-simulators/motion-d...

Phwwwooooooaaaaarrrr

Now that is awesome. I'm not sure I'd sneak that past the home boss.

that reminds me of the ridge racer mx5 they had in namco-westminster. i never played on it but always liked it as it was an MX-5. its a shame they removed it afew years ago.

[GuitarTech]

Hoofy said:

GuitarTech said:

Hoofy said:

That's mental. I love it. In fact, I love the one before, too. Not sure my gf would respect me any more if I set that kind of thing up, though.

I gave up smoking three years ago, and decided to renew my 10 year old rig with the €200 a month that I'd saved by giving up smoking. And anyway, I'm 63, the kids are out of the house, and who knows how long I still have to have a bit of fun. Life's too short to worry about stuff like that.
They have a saying here in Germany "the money isn't gone, it's just that someone else has it now"

Ha. Well, I never smoked so where is this extra cash coming from?

If you spread the costs over two or three years it's no sweat: I started off with an old Logitech G27, and a stone age AMD 939 box, with ATI graphics.
First of all I built a new gaming computer with an i5 6600K and a GTX 970.etc, after the bitter disapointment of buying Assetto Corsa and finding out that my old box could only run it as a slide show.
Then I upgraded all the Logitech stuff to Thrustmaster, and that in turn to Fanatec stuff a year later. And this year I bought the Omega GT cockpit complete with a nice racing seat so I could mount it all sensibly and use the load cell brake effectively.
And along the way the 34" monitor, and the tablet for the telemetry data, and the dashboard from sim racing hardware in the UK, and some ricmotech stuff from the USA. And this week I upgraded my wheel to the new flagship Thrustmaster: a TS-PC racer.
At the moment I think I have everything I need: till I think of something I haven't got :. It's a permanent work in progress

[Rick101]

There is always loads of 2nd hand stuff for sale. Its not an expensive hobby at all. Realistically a trackday will set you back 350-500 and in my experience is rarely more fun than serious sim racing.

[GuitarTech]

Rick101 said:

There is always loads of 2nd hand stuff for sale. Its not an expensive hobby at all. Realistically a trackday will set you back 350-500 and in my experience is rarely more fun than serious sim racing.

Could I hire you for a few hours to talk to my wife, and explain to her what you said above? She doesn't believe me....

[SturdyHSV]

Northbloke said:

Great thread and some great set-ups. Been going to do this for years but never got a round tuit. Sounds like with this VR thing now's the time (except missed Black Friday, damn).

So Oculus Rift and Touch controllers already bought (Amazon £349, looks like it has gone back up for now).

Looks like I'll have to get the Playseat mentioned above (spacesaving good) although seems a lot for a glorified deckchair. (Tesco had it for £140 but out of stock now)

https://www.boysstuff.co.uk/gaming-chairs/playseat...

What else do folks recommend for a 3 pedal set, wheel and gearstick to fit with the above and where best to buy it from? I guess I want the best bang for your buck in the £200-£600 range for all 3. I'll go cheapest unless there's a must have feature that is worth paying more for. Can't wait to get this set up now and have a go. Finger ready to press order buttons.

As an aside, the kids are approaching driving age now and I reckon this will be a good way to get them used to the car controls which would save a packet on lessons (so realistic gearstick important). Anyone else done that with their nippers? Also is there any normal driving software (roads, junctions etc) that they could use with the VR stuff. Reckon that could be a winner too.

As others have said, go Thrustmaster at your price level. T3PA pedals, TH8A shifter, and whatever wheel you fancy, T300RS I think you can buy with the pedals, and then it's £125ish for the shifter.

As for using it as a teaching tool, I think really it's the clutch control that is most important, and you won't get that from a sim particularly easily as there's no 'feel' through the pedal. Don't get me wrong, you can spend some cash and get something that can emulate a biting point and such, but I think very low speed stuff is where most sims aren't at their best (understandably, it's not an important area normally!)

Having said that, most sims that support a clutch pedal will let you stall it if you bring the clutch up instantly with no revs, so it may help give at least a simple understanding of using a touch of throttle and considerate clutch movements, and could well help build up the mental understanding of how the clutch, throttle and gear stick interact... It's hard to remember what it was like not being able to drive...

As an interesting example, I used to have a two pedal wheel for many years (before 3 pedals options existed at anything like a consumer level). I had played Gran Turismo in its various forms for years and years with a wheel. In that time I also learned to drive a real car. When I got my G25 (with clutch pedal now) it took me a good few days to be able to drive in Gran Turismo again, despite obviously being used to driving a car with a clutch and being used to driving in GT with a wheel

[GuitarTech]

SturdyHSV said:

Northbloke said:

Great thread and some great set-ups. Been going to do this for years but never got a round tuit. Sounds like with this VR thing now's the time (except missed Black Friday, damn).

So Oculus Rift and Touch controllers already bought (Amazon £349, looks like it has gone back up for now).

Looks like I'll have to get the Playseat mentioned above (spacesaving good) although seems a lot for a glorified deckchair. (Tesco had it for £140 but out of stock now)

https://www.boysstuff.co.uk/gaming-chairs/playseat...

What else do folks recommend for a 3 pedal set, wheel and gearstick to fit with the above and where best to buy it from? I guess I want the best bang for your buck in the £200-£600 range for all 3. I'll go cheapest unless there's a must have feature that is worth paying more for. Can't wait to get this set up now and have a go. Finger ready to press order buttons.

As an aside, the kids are approaching driving age now and I reckon this will be a good way to get them used to the car controls which would save a packet on lessons (so realistic gearstick important). Anyone else done that with their nippers? Also is there any normal driving software (roads, junctions etc) that they could use with the VR stuff. Reckon that could be a winner too.

As others have said, go Thrustmaster at your price level. T3PA pedals, TH8A shifter, and whatever wheel you fancy, T300RS I think you can buy with the pedals, and then it's £125ish for the shifter.

As for using it as a teaching tool, I think really it's the clutch control that is most important, and you won't get that from a sim particularly easily as there's no 'feel' through the pedal. Don't get me wrong, you can spend some cash and get something that can emulate a biting point and such, but I think very low speed stuff is where most sims aren't at their best (understandably, it's not an important area normally!)

Having said that, most sims that support a clutch pedal will let you stall it if you bring the clutch up instantly with no revs, so it may help give at least a simple understanding of using a touch of throttle and considerate clutch movements, and could well help build up the mental understanding of how the clutch, throttle and gear stick interact... It's hard to remember what it was like not being able to drive...

As an interesting example, I used to have a two pedal wheel for many years (before 3 pedals options existed at anything like a consumer level). I had played Gran Turismo in its various forms for years and years with a wheel. In that time I also learned to drive a real car. When I got my G25 (with clutch pedal now) it took me a good few days to be able to drive in Gran Turismo again, despite obviously being used to driving a car with a clutch and being used to driving in GT with a wheel

The 2-pedal set that comes with the T300 is pants. Little more than a plastic toy. The T3PA pedals are at least 3-pedals, but they have no feel at all, and are not even remotely close to a real car. The T3PA-Pro pedals can at least be modded so that the brake pedal has some feel (the mod comes with the pedals), but the clutch is much too light compared to a real car. A new set will set you back around 130 quid (no pound sign on my german keyboard)
The only remotely realistic pedals have a loadcell brake, instead of a potentiometer, and a parallelogramm linkage on the clutch pedal, so it feels like real clutch pedal, but they're out of your price class: My Fanatecs cost €420
A loadcell feels like a real pedal, because you brake using pressure. With the cheaper pedals, you brake using the pedal travel distance, which isn't the same at all. It feels as if the brakes are in urgent need of a good bleeding, and if that happened in a real car, you'd sh*t yourself. I've attached a pic from my pedals so you can see the loadcell brake, and the parallelogramm linkage on the clutch. Full metal german engineering, ( they weigh over 9kg's ), but not cheap.

Btw, if I may be so bold: I realise that we're not allowed to advertise here, but coincidentally I have a T300RS with a 28GT leather rim, and a set of T3PA-Pro pedals for sale. Bought in June 2016, and with rest guarantee till June 2018. And then you'd only need a shifter: Unfortunately I sold my TM shifter last week to a chap in Slovenia, otherwise I would've been able to offer a complete set.

Edited by GuitarTech on Sunday 10th December 14:32

[skinny]

I found on the t3pa pedals, I needed to change the springs out. I put the brake into the throttle to stiffen that up, then got new springs for the clutch and brake to make them stiffer. I then put a second spring on the brake, together with the standard bake mod. I went through the catalogues of two spring suppliers and got a few from each to try out.
I've got them to a good feel now - left foot braking is fine in socks but I need shoes to heel and toe otherwise the brake force hurts my foot as I rotate it on the pedal.

[GuitarTech]

skinny said:

I found on the t3pa pedals, I needed to change the springs out. I put the brake into the throttle to stiffen that up, then got new springs for the clutch and brake to make them stiffer. I then put a second spring on the brake, together with the standard bake mod. I went through the catalogues of two spring suppliers and got a few from each to try out.
I've got them to a good feel now - left foot braking is fine in socks but I need shoes to heel and toe otherwise the brake force hurts my foot as I rotate it on the pedal.

Good modding With my Fanatec pedals, I've set the loadcell to maximum realism: that's 90kg for full braking no chance of driving in socks with them: I bought a pair of Sparco kart boots to use when I drive And matching gloves to keep the alcantara rim in good condition. Geeky? Not me....

[Northbloke]

Thanks for all the advice folks. So this looks a decent set and a good price?

https://www.cclonline.com/product/229681/4168057/G...

Thanks for the 2nd hand offer GT but as you say delivery would be expensive and I'm in "want it now" mode.

I think the pedals will do me for now and I like the idea of those spring mods if necessary.

Only issue is with the Playseat Challenge chair I need to pay £40 for a small bit of metal to fit a gearshifter. Plus the gearshifter itself is extra, so what is the clutch for in that bundle? Can't seem to find a bundle with all that included though.

Oh and I've just noticed the HumbleBundle above (thanks MP). $15 for a load of driving games including Dirt Rally. That should get me started.

Looking good. Can't wait.

[GuitarTech]

Northbloke said:

Thanks for all the advice folks. So this looks a decent set and a good price?

https://www.cclonline.com/product/229681/4168057/G...

Thanks for the 2nd hand offer GT but as you say delivery would be expensive and I'm in "want it now" mode.

I think the pedals will do me for now and I like the idea of those spring mods if necessary.

Only issue is with the Playseat Challenge chair I need to pay £40 for a small bit of metal to fit a gearshifter. Plus the gearshifter itself is extra, so what is the clutch for in that bundle? Can't seem to find a bundle with all that included though.

Oh and I've just noticed the HumbleBundle above (thanks MP). $15 for a load of driving games including Dirt Rally. That should get me started.

Looking good. Can't wait.

Even if you only use the paddles, you still need the clutch to drive out of the pits and for standing starts, unless of course you've set the clutch to auto as is possible in most games. Once you're underway, you don't need the clutch to change gear. Most games even have a setting to "blip" the throttle automatically when you change down. To do old school gearchanges you need one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-TH8A-Shifter...

and then you're good to go. You can connect the shifter directly to the T300 or with USB direct, you get both cables supplied with it.

Edited by GuitarTech on Sunday 10th December 14:17