Has The Day Come? (Bye bye SLR)

[Smollet]

Some people like to record what is happening in front of them. Others like to take photographs

[GravelBen]

I also know a fair few people who have bought the idea that phones take good enough photos to replace a camera etc... but they don't have one of the new high end phones those ideas are based on, they have a low to mid range phone from 3 years ago. So while their photos might look ok on a small phone screen when they take them, you see them on a larger screen later and the quality is frankly awful.

Some of those people don't seem to notice the difference either though I guess, so maybe it is good enough for them in that sense!

[SCEtoAUX]

Show me a mobile phone that will take a 500mm lens and shoot 10 frames per second, in 14 bit RAW, in low light, of a fast moving subject. Oh, and they all have to be in focus too.

[Simpo Two]

SCEtoAUX said:

Show me a mobile phone that will take a 500mm lens and shoot 10 frames per second, in 14 bit RAW, in low light, of a fast moving subject. Oh, and they all have to be in focus too.

Or one you can strap a fk-off flashgun to.

[Bacardi]

Simpo Two said:

SCEtoAUX said:

Show me a mobile phone that will take a 500mm lens and shoot 10 frames per second, in 14 bit RAW, in low light, of a fast moving subject. Oh, and they all have to be in focus too.

Or one you can strap a fk-off flashgun to.

Here you go... sort of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-F9_4tvjQ&li...

Although I agree about the 500mm, high frame rate, Raw etc, but common sense suggests the tech will improve...

[K12beano]

Bacardi said:

Here you go... sort of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-F9_4tvjQ&li...

Although I agree about the 500mm, high frame rate, Raw etc, but common sense suggests the tech will improve...

Yes - that’s quite impressive and the sort of thing I think worth exploring.

Since starting this thread, I’m still thinking about it - and, of course, it’s different for everyone. Clearly there are some applications where we have a long way to go, and everything is a compromise, but I’m pretty much sure I’m going to see what I miss if I go to the imminent iPhone and loan all my “serious” gear to my nephew so he can learn all about photography (in the same way I did as a teenager, except with vastly better kit)

I haven’t found the right camera app for me (or whether I should just stick with Apple’s own - after all that’s part of what you pay for if you buy Apple) and I am also thinking of moving away from Lightroom (which I have been wedded to since before it was “Lightroom”), but it’s always good to challenge yourself to new things!

[SCEtoAUX]

Bacardi said:

Simpo Two said:

SCEtoAUX said:

Show me a mobile phone that will take a 500mm lens and shoot 10 frames per second, in 14 bit RAW, in low light, of a fast moving subject. Oh, and they all have to be in focus too.

Or one you can strap a fk-off flashgun to.

Here you go... sort of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-F9_4tvjQ&li...

Although I agree about the 500mm, high frame rate, Raw etc, but common sense suggests the tech will improve...

Technology will improve, but physics won't change. This is why the very latest mobile phones have all sorts of electronic trickery to fake a shallow depth of field. Check out the physical sizes of lenses over the last 50 to 60 years. They might have stabilisation and clever autofocus, but they have not got one jot smaller for the same size of sensor/film.

[Derek Smith]

I was talking to the graphics chap/picture editor of a magazine I'd edited previously. I asked him if things had changed in the ensuing 10 years to so, and he said that he was supplied with mobile phone images rather than a 'proper' camera.

Make of that what you will.

[Simpo Two]

Derek Smith said:

I was talking to the graphics chap/picture editor of a magazine I'd edited previously. I asked him if things had changed in the ensuing 10 years to so, and he said that he was supplied with mobile phone images rather than a 'proper' camera.

Make of that what you will.

That's because the editor (of Sprint I presume) relies on whatever the readers send him;. Mostly snaps of cars on a nice day I expect. He doesn't commission quality work for money.

If the images are good enough to print then fair enough.

[gangzoom]

My S9 pretty much replaced the need to used my DSLR gear a few years ago, and actually am really liking the look of the 12, will probably get one for my wife. The last iPhone we had was the 5!

Still have a EM5II but it rarely comes out, interms of £ per shot taken, our smart phones are far better tools. £1000 is alot to spend on a phone, but its not much to spend on a lens/DSLR gear.

If you make a living take photos I can see why you still would spend money on a DSLR, for the rest of us I don't see the point unless you really do take wildlife/sports photos all day long.

[WelshChris]

Horses for courses.

I have an iPhone 11 Pro, which has a fantastic camera. Pocket-sized (obviously!) and therefore ultra convenient. For snapshots it really is amazing, and for a large percentage of camera users it'll replace any compact 90% of the time - day or night.

I also have a Nikon D500 / 200-500 for my job / wildlife / aviation photography. Totally brilliant, and no phone either now or in the future will replace it.

As I said, horses for courses.

D500....

CJP_3716_1 by Chris Parry, on Flickr

[gangzoom]

WelshChris said:

I also have a Nikon D500 / 200-500 for my job / wildlife / aviation photography. Totally brilliant, and no phone either now or in the future will replace it.

I don't think smart phones will ever replace on distance zooms, but most people just don't use 200mm+ zoom lens, than you add in the need for super quick AF which most mirrorless setups still struggle with even if you have reach on the lens. My EM5 II is almost useless at 200mm equivalent for wild life compared to my old 450D with a cheapo 300mm, the AF just isn't quick enough.

Day to day though its a different story, I've just changed the order for an iPhone 12 to the 12 Max Pro after reading this article. On a smart phone screen you can barely tell the difference of the comparison photos, but viewed on a laptop it looks like night/low light performance on smart phones appears to have made the next step up.

£1100 is huge amount of money to spend on a phone, but the last lens I bought was a Olympus 12-40mm F/2.8 Pro, £500 I recall, and I recon I've used it about 10 times in the last 2 years.

The 12 Pro Max is actually a present for my wife, but its really good I'll upgrade to the next version next year some. Currently my S9 is still more than good enough in day light.

https://blog.halide.cam/the-iphone-12-pro-max-real...

[Str6mik]

It’s an interesting debate.

Other than the very specific examples quoted here, and for myself fashion photography my iPhone 11 is all I use.

The adage that the best device to capture pictures is the one you have in your hand is very apt

I just wasn’t taking my SLR out with me of late, carrying a bag around, or being worried about hitting it against something whilst carrying it around my neck meant I missed a lot of great memories that I’m not capturing with the iPhone.

In terms of the way I share my family pics it’s all predominantly on whatsap also - so again the iPhone is far easier to send images with.

Unless I blow the images up or am cropping significantly, and the light is good I don’t think there’s a massive difference in pics for family either.

I had thought about a mirror less and just getting one lens - but I don’t think that option is vastly better than the iPhone for 90% of my shots.

Even today the necessity for an SLR is getting smaller and smaller for the avg prosumer. I can’t see any world where the SLR isn’t seriously niche for the vast majorit within the next 10 years.

[gangzoom]

So my wife got her S20 Note Ultra a few days ago as a present, I just had a chance to play with it. Honestly am blown away by the primary camera, bare in my mind I have a S9 for the last 2 years+ and have a EM5 II, with Olympus ED 12-40 mm F2.8 lens which is on far off a Cannon ‘L’ lens.

First thing to say is the build quality and feel of the phone is as nice as any high end DSLR, and the screen itself is a masterpiece, it looks better than printed materials in many ways!!



The primary sensor is now so big you get nature bokeh without needing clever software.



The 3 focal ranges available is quite astounding…..





Whilst a dedicated macro lens on a mirrorless/DLSR will be better/shaper, but for none professional usage the results are very impressive.




You than get the ‘magic’ of computational photography, this shots are taken with very little light 2-3 second exposures, you simply cannot get these shots with a traditional camera without a tripod and a lot of time for trial/error.I was really impressed with the details on the wood surface and even scratches on the key is visible. Again this is a 2 second exposure HANDHELD shot!!



Finally for just taking photos for enjoyment rather than pixel peeking, the ability of these phones to capture complex environments is on a different level. This shot would have been virtually impossible to get with my EM5 without A LOT of attempts, totally back lit, lots of things to distract the AF system, yet this is the shot straight out of the camera.



The camera on the Note S20 Ultra is noticeably better than my S9, and whats more amazing is the next S21 range of phones with new cameras will be out in a months or so.

I may will be putting up my EM5 II up for sale, I just cannot see when/why I would use it going into the future. For really long range stuff DSLRs will still rule but I recon most people will be very happy with the latest gen of smart phone cameras.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 19th December 15:05

[riskyj]

It’s a really interesting situation. The advances of phone cameras already killed off digital compacts. The the exception of particular genres of photography such as wildlife and sports; I imagine sales of DSLRs and mirrorless must be declining rapidly too

[gangzoom]

All cameras I recon are heading the way of the iPod/Mp3 player. Cannot see 2020 been a 'good' year for camera sales.

https://fstoppers.com/gear/2019-was-bad-year-camer...

[eltawater]

gangzoom said:

So my wife got her S20 Note Ultra a few days ago as a present, I just had a chance to play with it.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. The achilles heel I've always found with smartphone cameras is being able to track and re-focus on subjects as they run towards you / across the scene, and the lag in refocusing / snapping the shot. How do you find the S20 copes with those sorts of scenarios?

[gangzoom]

^I'll have a go, but my wife just now reminded me the Note 20 is 'her' phone and not mine

[gangzoom]

The x5 optical zoom lens on the S20 Ultra is sharp, properly sharp, but the it is a bit slow at f 3.0.

Hope every one is having a good xmas, but I think I know what I want as a present next Xmas to replace my S9 (and probably my EM5 II) .

[TheFungle]

SCEtoAUX said:

Show me a mobile phone that will take a 500mm lens and shoot 10 frames per second, in 14 bit RAW, in low light, of a fast moving subject. Oh, and they all have to be in focus too.

Show me an SLR you can phone your Mum on.