Cameras are now vastly too expensive

Cameras are now vastly too expensive

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Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
I have needed a new camera for years, but haven't purchased anything as they seem so incredibly overpriced for the technology they currently offer.

I need to replace a very old Canon 5dmk2. I want to replace it with a camera with similar (ideally better) build quality, and exceptional photo quality.

This means cameras like the Canon EOS R6, or Sony A7/A7R series.

The cameras are now £2.5k+, and mostly require new lenses. Lenses I'm more comfortable with the ~£1k cost.

Does anyone else see these new cameras as being hugely overpriced for the technology they actually offer? These camera companies seem to be throwing out the same tech for YEARS, and charging more and more each year as their market continues to shrink.

I'm definitely stuck in a position of not wanting to spend thousands on a camera that does give a big jump from my very old 5dmk2, and tech wise seems old.

Am I wrong to be thinking this? Is it actually reasonable for camera bodies at this level to be £2.5k+?

blindspot

315 posts

142 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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Well, the 5d Mk 2 was released at £2250 in 2009 (according to an old AP review). Quick look at the BOE inflation calculator suggests that equates to a little over £3k in 2021 money. So, a 5dmk V from WEX at £2869 doesn't seem wildly unreasonable, even if you think quality hasn't got that much better.

geeks

9,119 posts

138 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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blindspot said:
Well, the 5d Mk 2 was released at £2250 in 2009 (according to an old AP review). Quick look at the BOE inflation calculator suggests that equates to a little over £3k in 2021 money. So, a 5dmk V from WEX at £2869 doesn't seem wildly unreasonable, even if you think quality hasn't got that much better.
^this

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
blindspot said:
Well, the 5d Mk 2 was released at £2250 in 2009 (according to an old AP review). Quick look at the BOE inflation calculator suggests that equates to a little over £3k in 2021 money. So, a 5dmk V from WEX at £2869 doesn't seem wildly unreasonable, even if you think quality hasn't got that much better.
In 2009 a 5dmk2 was vastly better than many other cameras available, and people were using other cameras, and phones were terrible for photos.

The gap is now much closer. Camera tech for DSLR/mirrorless has barely moved. Camera tech everywhere else has moved on massively, and the market for cameras that aren't DSLR/mirrorless has virtually disappeared.

2021 is a very different time in terms of tech than 2009.

55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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Good cameras have always been expensive.

A new Canon F1n in the mid eighties was about £800 I think..

Similar high prices for FD lenses.

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
55palfers said:
Good cameras have always been expensive.

A new Canon F1n in the mid eighties was about £800 I think..

Similar high prices for FD lenses.
I think what makes it hard for me now is it's now much harder to describe a lot of these cameras as "good". Most of them have big flaws, or just aren't very technically advanced.

55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
I have a 5D MK2 also.

It's still a good camera and takes very good pictures and I trust it will continue so to do for many more years.

My advice, stick with it. Save your money.

StevieBee

12,789 posts

254 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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I've recently added a Nikon D850 to my arsenal (which includes a D7200). With two new lenses and all the gubbins, this lightened the wallet by around £5k. I normally skip away from a camera shop like a Disney character when I've purchased some new gear but - even thought this was a professional (mainly) purchase - I harboured the nagging doubt if it was worth the money.

It really, really is.

The first shots I pulled up on the computer made me smile and feel warm in a way that normally involves alcohol. It is exceptionally difficult to describe to anyone who doesn't 'get it'.

I'm more inclined to ask the question "how they manage to do it for the price"?

If I were just a keen amateur I'd have happily stuck with the D7200 and getting a £5k spend on a camera past the Domestic Finance Steering Committee (OH) would have been tricky.

Whilst I can easily justify the spend from a business point of view, I think the value placed upon cameras really comes down to the individual. But it's worth taking a look to see how these things are made. There's very little automation and you're buying what is in the main, a hand-built, high-tech device. Has always been the case. I remember when I started work in the early 80s hankering after a Nikon F1 and spotted one in the window of Fox Talbot in The Strand for £1.5k.

And if the price of cameras shocks you, take a look at some of the video cameras from the likes of RED. £40k minimum and that's just for a box with a sensor in it!






sgrimshaw

7,311 posts

249 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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Matt.. said:
This means cameras like the Canon EOS R6, or Sony A7/A7R series.

The cameras are now £2.5k+, and mostly require new lenses. Lenses I'm more comfortable with the ~£1k cost.
Sony A7 III is £1700 and A7R III is £2200

the mark II versions of both are still "current" and come in at a lot less

A7 II is only £900 and A7R II is £1800

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
sgrimshaw said:
Sony A7 III is £1700 and A7R III is £2200

the mark II versions of both are still "current" and come in at a lot less

A7 II is only £900 and A7R II is £1800
The A7 II is 7yrs old.
The A7R II is 6yrs old.

I wouldn't buy those as an upgrade from a 5dmk2, and not at those prices.

It's wild how expensive the A7R II still is given the age.


I really don't get why cameras are this expensive now. Maybe it's just because the market is now so tiny that it's easy to charge so much and innovate so little as it's such a captive market?

techguyone

3,137 posts

141 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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If the camera tech in DSLR's hasn't moved on, why change at all. Hold on until it does.

It may just be that things like the smartphone camera tech is where all the work is gonig on, that seems to be improving all the time.

Turn7

23,500 posts

220 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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Matt.. said:
sgrimshaw said:
Sony A7 III is £1700 and A7R III is £2200

the mark II versions of both are still "current" and come in at a lot less

A7 II is only £900 and A7R II is £1800
The A7 II is 7yrs old.
The A7R II is 6yrs old.

I wouldn't buy those as an upgrade from a 5dmk2, and not at those prices.

It's wild how expensive the A7R II still is given the age.


I really don't get why cameras are this expensive now. Maybe it's just because the market is now so tiny that it's easy to charge so much and innovate so little as it's such a captive market?
EVERYTHING is expensive now.......


Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
techguyone said:
If the camera tech in DSLR's hasn't moved on, why change at all. Hold on until it does.

It may just be that things like the smartphone camera tech is where all the work is gonig on, that seems to be improving all the time.
It's frustrating really. I want to change because my camera is old and am concerned about failure, but also because I hike and it's big and heavy. There's just nothing that seems worth anywhere near what's being charged.

Turn7

23,500 posts

220 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Matt.. said:
techguyone said:
If the camera tech in DSLR's hasn't moved on, why change at all. Hold on until it does.

It may just be that things like the smartphone camera tech is where all the work is gonig on, that seems to be improving all the time.
It's frustrating really. I want to change because my camera is old and am concerned about failure, but also because I hike and it's big and heavy. There's just nothing that seems worth anywhere near what's being charged.
Matt, is the issue more that you want to change to Mirrorless and need new glass not just an updated body ?

Genuine q.

Tony1963

4,699 posts

161 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
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As above.

I think you’ve set yourself up to be disappointed. If you’re hiking, are you mainly taking landscapes? In which case a Canon R6 and a suitable lens will be much, much better than a 5D2. The 5D3 was a big step up from the 5D2 for action and low light, but it was still a heavy beast.

Maybe rent an R6 with lens for a few days, see what you think. The weight saving alone might be worth it. Or, R? RP?

You might do well to make a list of what you like about the 5D2, what you don’t like, and what you’re really looking for in a camera. Until that’s all very clear, you’re pissing in the wind.

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Turn7 said:
Matt, is the issue more that you want to change to Mirrorless and need new glass not just an updated body ?

Genuine q.
No. I'm not concerned about changing lenses as that will need to happen with whatever I change to.

It's entirely that bodies are incredibly expensive, most have flaws (for my intended use), and most don't seem like a huge tech leap that they should be.

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Tony1963 said:
As above.

I think you’ve set yourself up to be disappointed. If you’re hiking, are you mainly taking landscapes? In which case a Canon R6 and a suitable lens will be much, much better than a 5D2. The 5D3 was a big step up from the 5D2 for action and low light, but it was still a heavy beast.

Maybe rent an R6 with lens for a few days, see what you think. The weight saving alone might be worth it. Or, R? RP?

You might do well to make a list of what you like about the 5D2, what you don’t like, and what you’re really looking for in a camera. Until that’s all very clear, you’re pissing in the wind.
Well the biggest problem (other than the silly pricing of cameras), is my ridiculous indecisiveness.

I want:
- Smaller
- Lighter
- Weatherproof (as much as possible. I don't want to care about using it in some rain)
- Good build quality (it will never be in a "camera bag". it will live in a normal backpack with everything else I carry)
- Very good photo quality for landscapes that I will print for the wall
- Some ability to take video

That's mostly it. I like my 5d as it's well built enough that I can throw it around, use it in the rain, drop it, knock it, and that at the time the I got it photo quality was really good.

- Canon R lenses are all big and heavy. They do no small lenses (yet).
- Older Sony A7's have awful ergonomics that are not ideal for people with bigger hands, or use of gloves

Really I'd like to stay with Canon as I've used Canon DSLRs since ~2006, but they just don't make a model that works for me. Sony is the obvious option, but the older A7's have horrible ergonomics and questionable build/weartherproofing.

I think in reality I've set myself up for wanting something that doesn't exist, and the longer I wait the more ridiculous the situation becomes biggrin

Coolbananas

4,382 posts

199 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Matt.. said:
Well the biggest problem (other than the silly pricing of cameras), is my ridiculous indecisiveness.

I want:
- Smaller
- Lighter
- Weatherproof (as much as possible. I don't want to care about using it in some rain)
- Good build quality (it will never be in a "camera bag". it will live in a normal backpack with everything else I carry)
- Very good photo quality for landscapes that I will print for the wall
- Some ability to take video

That's mostly it. I like my 5d as it's well built enough that I can throw it around, use it in the rain, drop it, knock it, and that at the time the I got it photo quality was really good.

- Canon R lenses are all big and heavy. They do no small lenses (yet).
- Older Sony A7's have awful ergonomics that are not ideal for people with bigger hands, or use of gloves

Really I'd like to stay with Canon as I've used Canon DSLRs since ~2006, but they just don't make a model that works for me. Sony is the obvious option, but the older A7's have horrible ergonomics and questionable build/weartherproofing.

I think in reality I've set myself up for wanting something that doesn't exist, and the longer I wait the more ridiculous the situation becomes biggrin
But...the R6 is quite a step up in many ways and is lighter, smaller.
https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R6-vs...
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-si...

The R5, the more apt 5D DSLR Mirrorless successor...even better...
https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R5-vs...

The tech has moved on for not much difference in cost value.

My R5 is significantly nicer to shoot and easier to produce great photo's with than my old 5D IV, let alone a MII.






Tony1963

4,699 posts

161 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Matt,

You really need to use an R6, maybe with your 5D2 to compare the results directly. Also, I’ve just had a quick look, and the RF lenses appear to be lighter than their nearest equivalents.

Or are you just winding us up?
Are you expecting R5 performance at half the weight for £1k?

In which case, end of chat.

Matt..

Original Poster:

3,586 posts

188 months

Thursday 27th May 2021
quotequote all
Tony1963 said:
Matt,

You really need to use an R6, maybe with your 5D2 to compare the results directly. Also, I’ve just had a quick look, and the RF lenses appear to be lighter than their nearest equivalents.

Or are you just winding us up?
Are you expecting R5 performance at half the weight for £1k?

In which case, end of chat.
I don't expect that, but in some ways I do struggle to understand why that isn't the case by now. It's fairly clear that traditional camera producers are far behind with technology that's at consumer level. They've been drifting along for a long time with gradual improvements whilst the rest of the tech world has made jumps.

In reality the camera market is now miniscule. The progress is slow because it can be. There's limited pressure, and for some of these business a fairly limited need/desire to push forward.

Canon are notorious for being glacial with progress. Sony made jumps, then got slow with progress in the last few years.

You are right though, I should probably try an R6 out for an extended period.