Cameras are now vastly too expensive
Discussion
Matt.. said:
I want:
- Smaller
- Lighter
- Weatherproof (as much as possible. I don't want to care about using it in some rain)
- Good build quality (it will never be in a "camera bag". it will live in a normal backpack with everything else I carry)
- Very good photo quality for landscapes that I will print for the wall
- Some ability to take video
I think in reality I've set myself up for wanting something that doesn't exist, and the longer I wait the more ridiculous the situation becomes
Maybe not. Have you considered the.micro 4/3 format cameras? The Lumix G9 fits most of not all of your requirements, and delivers great value for money.- Smaller
- Lighter
- Weatherproof (as much as possible. I don't want to care about using it in some rain)
- Good build quality (it will never be in a "camera bag". it will live in a normal backpack with everything else I carry)
- Very good photo quality for landscapes that I will print for the wall
- Some ability to take video
I think in reality I've set myself up for wanting something that doesn't exist, and the longer I wait the more ridiculous the situation becomes
No affiliations except I have one. I went in to wex with a budget of about £2k ISH. Fully expecting to get a Nikon or Canon. But after trying them all for 4 hours I was blown away by the G9. Body and 2 lenses for £1600.
I'm.mainly into wildlife rather than landscapes, but plenty of good reviews on YouTube.
FG
Matt.. said:
The progress is slow because it can be. There's limited pressure, and for some of these business a fairly limited need/desire to push forward.
Canon are notorious for being glacial with progress. Sony made jumps, then got slow with progress in the last few years.
Firstly, you seem to have a downer on Canon, and I don’t think that’s justified. They’re way ahead of the rest in mirrorless in some ways. Canon are notorious for being glacial with progress. Sony made jumps, then got slow with progress in the last few years.
Secondly, you’re caught up in the tech side when, let’s face it, the true pros just pick up a camera, learn it, and produce better ‘photographs’ than the rest of us.
So. You want a lighter SLR? Sort your budget, decide on manufacturer, buy the camera, take photos and be happy.
If I go to, say, an R6, I’ll be doing landscapes pretty much as I do now, with a 70-200mm. Have you seen how much lighter that is than my 70-200mm f/2.8 IS? Lots!!!
The reason I mention tech so much is primarily because its hard to justify the cost of the current crop of cameras for what they offer.
Cleary I could pick up any camera and take photos. I'm not saying I couldn't.
It's just hard to see any value in what's out there right now. That's all.
I do totally agree that I should just buy one and stop thinking about it though. But I just wish they were much more reasonably priced!
Cleary I could pick up any camera and take photos. I'm not saying I couldn't.
It's just hard to see any value in what's out there right now. That's all.
I do totally agree that I should just buy one and stop thinking about it though. But I just wish they were much more reasonably priced!
Check these out, if I was out and about with a camera then a setup based on this Olympus would be my choice.
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/olympus-om-d-e-m1-ma...
I'm mostly in the studio though, so my 5DSR is ideal for that, and I've already got it.
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/olympus-om-d-e-m1-ma...
I'm mostly in the studio though, so my 5DSR is ideal for that, and I've already got it.
singlecoil said:
Check these out, if I was out and about with a camera then a setup based on this Olympus would be my choice.
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/olympus-om-d-e-m1-ma...
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/olympus-om-d-e-m1-ma...
A cracking micro 4/3 camera.
As is this:
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/panasonic-lumix-dc-g...
Rogue86 said:
Excuse me? Let's reign it in a little here before you embarrass yourself.
Cameras weigh something. By all means go and throw £3k at a new camera system to save, at a push, 300g.
I’m 57. At the end of a long day with all my gear, I’m tired enough to start finding reasons to not bother taking photos anymore. When hiking, as with cycling, saving a couple of kilos makes sense, especially if combined with an upgrade of some sort. Cameras weigh something. By all means go and throw £3k at a new camera system to save, at a push, 300g.
When an OP says they want to save weight, I give them the benefit of the doubt and advise based on that.
Tony1963 said:
I’m 57. At the end of a long day with all my gear, I’m tired enough to start finding reasons to not bother taking photos anymore. When hiking, as with cycling, saving a couple of kilos makes sense, especially if combined with an upgrade of some sort.
When an OP says they want to save weight, I give them the benefit of the doubt and advise based on that.
Yes, for hiking weight and physical size is important. Everything adds up fast.When an OP says they want to save weight, I give them the benefit of the doubt and advise based on that.
My 5d+lens is ~1.8kg. If I can save 500g from that it is a huge amount. A change would also give a physically smaller device that is easier to pack, and easier to carry outside of the pack.
Hiking and backpacking is like any hobby, it can easily get expensive. Going to lightweight/ultralight gear is expensive, but it certainly makes for a more enjoyable trip!
At some stage you're going to have to make a compromise on what it is you want.
500g is a significant amount of weight saving that you're unlikely to see and the 5D is about as light a mainstream DSLR body there is. The R6 mentioned above is still 680g, the Sony is 650g, so you're saving 180g if you don't want to buy all new lenses. Your lens (let's say its a 24-70) will still weigh 980g regardless. The difference is the R6 has cost you almost £2k more than the MKIII. Much the same can be said about size, your lens is still going to be the same dimensions and you're going to save very little in terms of body thickness.
You can have very light, very little space, relatively cheap but you'll compromise on image quality and versatility.
You can have slightly lighter, slightly shorter, same or improved image quality, but you'll have to compromise massively on your expectations of price.
Or, you could look at how it is you're carrying the weight and invest there.
I was a combat camera photographer for 5 years so I'm well aware of how the kit weight adds up, especially when you throw in Osprey armour, weapon system, ammunition, grenades etc. The reality here is we are talking very minimal increments of weight.
500g is a significant amount of weight saving that you're unlikely to see and the 5D is about as light a mainstream DSLR body there is. The R6 mentioned above is still 680g, the Sony is 650g, so you're saving 180g if you don't want to buy all new lenses. Your lens (let's say its a 24-70) will still weigh 980g regardless. The difference is the R6 has cost you almost £2k more than the MKIII. Much the same can be said about size, your lens is still going to be the same dimensions and you're going to save very little in terms of body thickness.
You can have very light, very little space, relatively cheap but you'll compromise on image quality and versatility.
You can have slightly lighter, slightly shorter, same or improved image quality, but you'll have to compromise massively on your expectations of price.
Or, you could look at how it is you're carrying the weight and invest there.
I was a combat camera photographer for 5 years so I'm well aware of how the kit weight adds up, especially when you throw in Osprey armour, weapon system, ammunition, grenades etc. The reality here is we are talking very minimal increments of weight.
Rogue86 said:
I was a combat camera photographer for 5 years so I'm well aware of how the kit weight adds up, especially when you throw in Osprey armour, weapon system, ammunition, grenades etc. The reality here is we are talking very minimal increments of weight.
500g is significant when the entire pack is 6-10kg inc consumables.500g isn't a lot if you're wearing combat gear and other kit.
I should be able to save 500g on camera+lens as some brands have much smaller/lighter lenses. The physical size can also reduce quite significantly which makes packing it easier, and gives options for carrying it out of the pack (eg. Peak Design Clip).
My 5dmk2 + 24-105L is ~1.8kg
The Sony A7 III and 24-70 F4 is ~1.2kg
The main issue I have with the R6 is Canon have no small RF lenses. Sony have quite a few options for smaller and lighter lenses though, so they appeal.
Rogue86 said:
You can have slightly lighter, slightly shorter, same or improved image quality, but you'll have to compromise massively on your expectations of price.
Yes. Which is why I started this thread because I think the pricing of cameras right now is crazy given what they offer.The camera that probably bets fits is the Sony A7 III or the A7R IV. Primarily due to size/weight, and more compact lens options.
What I would really like is a Canon, but the reality is they don't have many RF lenses yet, and ones that fit my use case aren't in their roadmap so it could be many years until Canon is viable for me.
On the money side I don't believe I have much choice. I think the pricing is insane, but it's what it is.
Matt.. said:
Yes. Which is why I started this thread because I think the pricing of cameras right now is crazy given what they offer.
What I would really like is a Canon, but the reality is they don't have many RF lenses yet, and ones that fit my use case aren't in their roadmap so it could be many years until Canon is viable for me.
On the money side I don't believe I have much choice. I think the pricing is insane, but it's what it is.
I'm sure you've already thought about it, but just in case, regarding the lenses, have you considered an R6 body and using your existing Canon EF lenses with the adapter?What I would really like is a Canon, but the reality is they don't have many RF lenses yet, and ones that fit my use case aren't in their roadmap so it could be many years until Canon is viable for me.
On the money side I don't believe I have much choice. I think the pricing is insane, but it's what it is.
You get to save on lens costs, the in body image stabilisation works with the EF lenses, and the performance of the EF lenses is maintained.
In terms of cost, I, along with several people on here, have used HDEW without any problems several times (including me buying a 5dmk3 and 100mm f2.8L macro lens). Whilst you don't get the official Canon warranty, they provide their own 3 year warranty, which apparently is very good. They also have a physical store in South London. They currently have the R6 with the RF/EF adapter for £2300.
Personally, I'm considering upgrading from the 5Dmk3, and an R6 (or if I can manage it, an R5) from HDEW is what I'll be going for, and keep using the very good EF lenses I have.
In terms of tech advances from the 5Dmk3 (which was quite a step up from the 5Dmk2), the R6/R5 offer greatly improved high ISO performance, lower noise, better AF including intelligent subject tracking.
Having said that, staying with a DSLR with a significant improvement, you could go for a 5Dmk4. 30.4MP, improved high ISO, better video etc... for just under £2k.
Matt.. said:
Rogue86 said:
I was a combat camera photographer for 5 years so I'm well aware of how the kit weight adds up, especially when you throw in Osprey armour, weapon system, ammunition, grenades etc. The reality here is we are talking very minimal increments of weight.
500g is significant when the entire pack is 6-10kg inc consumables.500g isn't a lot if you're wearing combat gear and other kit.
I bought a Panasonic compact 10 or so years ago and it is still operating perfectly. Compared to its replacement(s) it has a limited zoom and the menu items fewer. It’s not a good business model to produce a long-lasting product that can only be upgraded in minor matters.
I bought a Panasonic G7 micro 4/3rds. It’s well made, it is flexible, it is tremendous with regards video. I’ve got a 100-300 (200-600 old money) additional lens. I’ve no reason to change. At 360 grams I can carry it all day. The G80 was a good improvement but not worth the cost.
You can see the problem for camera makers. They don’t sell enough for significant investment, and if they don’t make regular significant improvements, they don’t sell many cameras.
I bought a Panasonic G7 micro 4/3rds. It’s well made, it is flexible, it is tremendous with regards video. I’ve got a 100-300 (200-600 old money) additional lens. I’ve no reason to change. At 360 grams I can carry it all day. The G80 was a good improvement but not worth the cost.
You can see the problem for camera makers. They don’t sell enough for significant investment, and if they don’t make regular significant improvements, they don’t sell many cameras.
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