Terry's tale. (S3 resto ++)
Discussion
No disrespect to you 'Jag' guys intended but, as I've said elsewhere, this is a Ford engine through and through. Jaguar badges on the cam covers don't change that, any more than the Mazda badges do on other incarnations of it.
But no shame in that, TVR and Ford have long been happy bed fellows, and I think the Duratec V6 is a brilliant replacement for the Köln and Essexship anchors lumps.
But if its lowly Ford (and Mondeo) connections trouble you, just drop 'designed by Porsche' into the conversation
I haven't read all of the build thread, so did you have to modify the sump for this installation?
But no shame in that, TVR and Ford have long been happy bed fellows, and I think the Duratec V6 is a brilliant replacement for the Köln and Essex
But if its lowly Ford (and Mondeo) connections trouble you, just drop 'designed by Porsche' into the conversation
I haven't read all of the build thread, so did you have to modify the sump for this installation?
TwinKam said:
No disrespect to you 'Jag' guys intended but, as I've said elsewhere, this is a Ford engine through and through. Jaguar badges on the cam covers don't change that, any more than the Mazda badges do on other incarnations of it.
But no shame in that, TVR and Ford have long been happy bed fellows, and I think the Duratec V6 is a brilliant replacement for the Köln and Essexship anchors lumps.
But if its lowly Ford (and Mondeo) connections trouble you, just drop 'designed by Porsche' into the conversation
I haven't read all of the build thread, so did you have to modify the sump for this installation?
The Ford ST200 / ST220 short engines are interchangeable with the Jaguar. The Jaguar design input was mainly on the heads and VVT. This upped the power from St220 (223bhp/207lbft) to AJ30 (240bhp/216lbft) and then without the emissions stuff mine made 265bhp/235lbft.But no shame in that, TVR and Ford have long been happy bed fellows, and I think the Duratec V6 is a brilliant replacement for the Köln and Essex
But if its lowly Ford (and Mondeo) connections trouble you, just drop 'designed by Porsche' into the conversation
I haven't read all of the build thread, so did you have to modify the sump for this installation?
magpies said:
The Ford ST200 / ST220 short engines are interchangeable with the Jaguar. The Jaguar design input was mainly on the heads and VVT. This upped the power from St220 (223bhp/207lbft) to AJ30 (240bhp/216lbft) and then without the emissions stuff mine made 265bhp/235lbft.
That's a good increase for just ditching the CATs, or was that after a remap too? I seem to remember you didn't have the VVT hooked up initially Mick, does that all work now? TwinKam said:
That's a good increase for just ditching the CATs, or was that after a remap too? I seem to remember you didn't have the VVT hooked up initially Mick, does that all work now?
No still not connected. It is good power anyway and not sure if the cost of another remap would be worth the extra power/torque. I am a poor pensioner.
Magpies has said it all in the technical sense.
Of course what is being quoted above about the Ford connection to Jaguar is true, they owned Jaguar at that time !
The motoring press at that time even referred to the fwd Jag X-type, as a jaguar mondeo. However the rwd Jag S-type was based on the US Lincoln LS. Hence why some of the parts can be scarce or expensive.
Yes, Mazda did use the Duratec V6.
But neither Ford or Mazda installed the Jag 240bhp output unit.
Of course what is being quoted above about the Ford connection to Jaguar is true, they owned Jaguar at that time !
The motoring press at that time even referred to the fwd Jag X-type, as a jaguar mondeo. However the rwd Jag S-type was based on the US Lincoln LS. Hence why some of the parts can be scarce or expensive.
Yes, Mazda did use the Duratec V6.
But neither Ford or Mazda installed the Jag 240bhp output unit.
Edited by Blue 30 on Thursday 4th February 19:36
No, I didn't have to modify the sump, I chose to as I perceived one side was at risk in terms of road clearance.
I used the fwd X-type sump, which is slightly deeper on one side. Done I guess, as the engine in the X-type is slightly canted over. Not so in my install, so I sliced one side off by about 20mm. The engine could have gone a bit higher in the chassis, but at my height it gave the best path through for the custom rear facing exhaust manifold outlets.
I used the fwd X-type sump, which is slightly deeper on one side. Done I guess, as the engine in the X-type is slightly canted over. Not so in my install, so I sliced one side off by about 20mm. The engine could have gone a bit higher in the chassis, but at my height it gave the best path through for the custom rear facing exhaust manifold outlets.
As with any conversion, there is usually some compromises to be made. I also used the X Type sump as it removes the extra sump extension casting which protrudes quite a bit forward. I used mine un-altered (along with the oil pick up and dip stick) but I junked the large Jag inlet casting in favour of a home brewed Alfa system which is lower than the original. Allowing the engine to sit higher. I would not do that again as I've found out that the ST200 will fit even lower. The sump is only 10mm below the chassis.
Further to the good news that my main bearings and all crank journals are undamaged. See the attached photos. You can see etched into the shell a number 2. This is the size ID. Which as it is still visible it confirms the low mileage of the engine I purchased (15k miles). Otherwise it would have been worn off !
I have now replaced the main bearings, refitted the lower block, and waiting on new Conrod bolts for doing the big ends.
Lots of internal cleaned already done, but I'll do it again, then close it all off... And try again.
After modifying the oil pick-up pipe of course....
T.
I have now replaced the main bearings, refitted the lower block, and waiting on new Conrod bolts for doing the big ends.
Lots of internal cleaned already done, but I'll do it again, then close it all off... And try again.
After modifying the oil pick-up pipe of course....
T.
That was fun... Not.
Block & journals washed out, again.
New mains in.
New big ends in.
All pre lubed of course.
All torqued up, plus stretch to yield settings.
Carried out a taught trick to pre oil the journals. Done with a big suction/pump syringe full of oil, attached to the return on the remote oil filter take-off. It took over 1ltr before it started raining oil from too many places too mention ... on me of course !
Over the weekend, the sump and sundries go back on, then I'm back to square one.
At least with the basic dyno settings already done, I should be able to start it and do some oil temp/pressure/flow testing.
T.
Block & journals washed out, again.
New mains in.
New big ends in.
All pre lubed of course.
All torqued up, plus stretch to yield settings.
Carried out a taught trick to pre oil the journals. Done with a big suction/pump syringe full of oil, attached to the return on the remote oil filter take-off. It took over 1ltr before it started raining oil from too many places too mention ... on me of course !
Over the weekend, the sump and sundries go back on, then I'm back to square one.
At least with the basic dyno settings already done, I should be able to start it and do some oil temp/pressure/flow testing.
T.
So far so good...
I've modified the oil pick-up pipe so that it's around 30mm off the sump floor.
I've opened up (drilled out) some of the remote filter adaptor unions, and smoothed out any sharp corners on holes. As that should help with oil flow around the remote filter 'loop'.
Anyway, the sumps back on, I primed the oil galleries by using an oil suction/push pump. Added oil to the full mark, and wound the engine over. On cold cranking, the gauge is reading just over 70psi with no horrible noises... Which is a good thing.
I'm not starting it up just yet, as I want to re commence/conclude some of the sundry tidy up jobs in the engine bay.
Photos show...
Chopped out section on the oil pick-up pipe.
Pick-up pipe head inside the sump.
Re drilled union.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/kZ377PQR[/url][url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/GhSky8Sy[/url]
T.
I've modified the oil pick-up pipe so that it's around 30mm off the sump floor.
I've opened up (drilled out) some of the remote filter adaptor unions, and smoothed out any sharp corners on holes. As that should help with oil flow around the remote filter 'loop'.
Anyway, the sumps back on, I primed the oil galleries by using an oil suction/push pump. Added oil to the full mark, and wound the engine over. On cold cranking, the gauge is reading just over 70psi with no horrible noises... Which is a good thing.
I'm not starting it up just yet, as I want to re commence/conclude some of the sundry tidy up jobs in the engine bay.
Photos show...
Chopped out section on the oil pick-up pipe.
Pick-up pipe head inside the sump.
Re drilled union.
[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/kZ377PQR[/url][url]|https://thumbsnap.com/GhSky8Sy[/url]T.
Edited by Blue 30 on Tuesday 23 February 14:19
Catch up (yet again)...
So in Feb, it was time to turn the key on my (bottom end) rebuild, with all of those mods listed above.
Well, it ran, it revved, it sounds okay.
But airing on the cautious, after say x3 2min runs on my drive (IE. Not under load). I put it back in the garage to do a quick oil change.
Oh no !!!!!
The oil has gone all metallic again...
So off with the sump, and off with a couple of bigend shells. They've gone again.
Now I'm pi**ed off.
And seriously considering selling the project on "as is". But once I had picked myself up, dusted myself down. It wasn't going to beat me, it's only a lump of metal after all.
I decided not to throw any more money or time on that engine (Jag parts are way too expensive).
By around Easter I had obtained a low mileage (68k) 2004 engine, and importantly, from a running car with MOT history to prove the mileage.
So now it's just a one for one swap...... Ha, as if !!!
My phase one fabricating of parts (engine, ancillary brackets etc) did their respective jobs, but I knew I could do better, especially in terms of future maintenance access etc.
So since Easter, I have been re designing, & fabricating... Again !
Coming fully up to date, the 'new' engine is in, and nearly fully connected up to all of the life support elements.
To eliminate the 'what had I done' to cause the engine failure, I have temporarily dumped the remote oil filter arrangements. Replaced by an undersized block mounted oil filter (just for initial start-up).
And now fitted a standard X-type sump & pickup pipe. So do I turn the key ?
Errrr.... Not just yet, as my next task is to recover the duff engine from my shed,and to fully strip it down, in a real attempt to locate the cause of the failure.
Was it me that caused it, or had I bought a bad engine ?
If it was me, it has to be the remote oil filter layout (now deleted).
If it was a bad engine, the following are my current thoughts...
It was a 2005 12k miles engine. But how long had it been standing ? I don't know, as I bought it on a pallet.
It was an accident damaged car. Had the engine suffered internal damage ? I don't know, but nothing externally visible.
Why was it only the big ends that had failed, not the mains ?
They are fed via the crank, is there a blockage ?
Hopefully, all will be be revealed soon.....
And then I will start my 'new' engine. And get it back on the Dyno.
T.
So in Feb, it was time to turn the key on my (bottom end) rebuild, with all of those mods listed above.
Well, it ran, it revved, it sounds okay.
But airing on the cautious, after say x3 2min runs on my drive (IE. Not under load). I put it back in the garage to do a quick oil change.
Oh no !!!!!
The oil has gone all metallic again...
So off with the sump, and off with a couple of bigend shells. They've gone again.
Now I'm pi**ed off.
And seriously considering selling the project on "as is". But once I had picked myself up, dusted myself down. It wasn't going to beat me, it's only a lump of metal after all.
I decided not to throw any more money or time on that engine (Jag parts are way too expensive).
By around Easter I had obtained a low mileage (68k) 2004 engine, and importantly, from a running car with MOT history to prove the mileage.
So now it's just a one for one swap...... Ha, as if !!!
My phase one fabricating of parts (engine, ancillary brackets etc) did their respective jobs, but I knew I could do better, especially in terms of future maintenance access etc.
So since Easter, I have been re designing, & fabricating... Again !
Coming fully up to date, the 'new' engine is in, and nearly fully connected up to all of the life support elements.
To eliminate the 'what had I done' to cause the engine failure, I have temporarily dumped the remote oil filter arrangements. Replaced by an undersized block mounted oil filter (just for initial start-up).
And now fitted a standard X-type sump & pickup pipe. So do I turn the key ?
Errrr.... Not just yet, as my next task is to recover the duff engine from my shed,and to fully strip it down, in a real attempt to locate the cause of the failure.
Was it me that caused it, or had I bought a bad engine ?
If it was me, it has to be the remote oil filter layout (now deleted).
If it was a bad engine, the following are my current thoughts...
It was a 2005 12k miles engine. But how long had it been standing ? I don't know, as I bought it on a pallet.
It was an accident damaged car. Had the engine suffered internal damage ? I don't know, but nothing externally visible.
Why was it only the big ends that had failed, not the mains ?
They are fed via the crank, is there a blockage ?
Hopefully, all will be be revealed soon.....
And then I will start my 'new' engine. And get it back on the Dyno.
T.
Thanks guys...
Well, I have partially stripped down my first (duff) engine. This is what I have found so far.
In terms of oil flow path, it goes.... Sump to pump (suction) to filter (at pump pressure) back to engine, past both of the oil sensors, to one of the cam chain tensioners. It's also teed off to the main bearings, which in turn feed the big ends via drillings in the crank (each main to a bigend).
I have rodded out each gallery.... No blockages found, no debris found.... Anywhere !
When that engine ran, it extinguished the warning light, it had 70+psi reading on the gauge. That's with the oil pressure gauge sensor at the remote filter head (oil input side).
Of course, you can have pressure without flow !
So next I will strip down the engine oil pump.
But I did previously check each remote oil pipe for blockages, and none found. And they were full of oil, as were the cooler & filter.
So it still isn't clear what happened.
One thing I did notice, is that the main bearings were marked up (damaged). I guess the reason the bigends were much worse, is that they encounter both rotary & up/down impact, whereas the mains only encounter rotary friction.
Which makes sense.
Well, I have partially stripped down my first (duff) engine. This is what I have found so far.
In terms of oil flow path, it goes.... Sump to pump (suction) to filter (at pump pressure) back to engine, past both of the oil sensors, to one of the cam chain tensioners. It's also teed off to the main bearings, which in turn feed the big ends via drillings in the crank (each main to a bigend).
I have rodded out each gallery.... No blockages found, no debris found.... Anywhere !
When that engine ran, it extinguished the warning light, it had 70+psi reading on the gauge. That's with the oil pressure gauge sensor at the remote filter head (oil input side).
Of course, you can have pressure without flow !
So next I will strip down the engine oil pump.
But I did previously check each remote oil pipe for blockages, and none found. And they were full of oil, as were the cooler & filter.
So it still isn't clear what happened.
One thing I did notice, is that the main bearings were marked up (damaged). I guess the reason the bigends were much worse, is that they encounter both rotary & up/down impact, whereas the mains only encounter rotary friction.
Which makes sense.
Hopefully, I did mention previously that the Jag/Ford AJ30 V6 engine parts are just too expensive to justify an engine rebuild. Especially when low mileage cared for examples are available. So that's what I did. My No2 engine is a 68k miles unit, where I saw the car running before it was removed for me.
And as far as the cause....
Well, I totally stripped engine No1, not to find any cause.
However, I did find that my fabricated takeoff adaptor threaded tube was quite long into the engine block, and was most likely causing restricted oil flow to the main oil gallery... Not a good thing.
It's now a bit shorter...
Hands up... My fault.... Maybe !
T.
And as far as the cause....
Well, I totally stripped engine No1, not to find any cause.
However, I did find that my fabricated takeoff adaptor threaded tube was quite long into the engine block, and was most likely causing restricted oil flow to the main oil gallery... Not a good thing.
It's now a bit shorter...
Hands up... My fault.... Maybe !
T.
Edited by Blue 30 on Friday 4th June 23:00
Edited by Blue 30 on Friday 4th June 23:01
Edited by Blue 30 on Friday 4th June 23:04
So is today a good day ?
Coolant water added... tick
Drive belt tensioned... tick
Fuel line connected... tick
Remote oil filter & lines now in situ....tick
All I have to now is turn the key. But first I disconnect the ECU.
It takes a while cranking it, for the oil light & oil pressure to build.... I was getting concerned !
But they did respond with 55+psi, even on cranking. That's with the pressure gauge sensor on the block.
Next I drained off a litre of oil into a large flat Ssteel food tray for inspection.
It's still new & clear.
Topped the oil back up. But I had better check the remote oil filter lines... Bugger, x3 out of 4 are moist at best.
I am now hating those AN alloy connectors. So the remote filter arrangement gets dumped and a small filter gets screwed directly onto the block. Crank it over again. The pressure comes back pretty quick.
So connect the ECU and turn the key.......
Vrrrrrm, vrrrrrm, vrrrrrm on the throttle about x10 times.. Turn it off, go back underneath, repeat draining some oil off.
Phew ! It's still golden & perfectly clear. Top it up.
That'll do for today.
Other than buying a 5/8" Mocal remote filter kit, plus a 22mm to 20mm takeoff adaptor.
Those Chinese parts will NOT be used again on my car.
So once the new parts have arrived & have been fitted, it'll be time to re book it back in with Jools.
Oh, the actual 'new' engine sounds pretty good.
T.
Coolant water added... tick
Drive belt tensioned... tick
Fuel line connected... tick
Remote oil filter & lines now in situ....tick
All I have to now is turn the key. But first I disconnect the ECU.
It takes a while cranking it, for the oil light & oil pressure to build.... I was getting concerned !
But they did respond with 55+psi, even on cranking. That's with the pressure gauge sensor on the block.
Next I drained off a litre of oil into a large flat Ssteel food tray for inspection.
It's still new & clear.
Topped the oil back up. But I had better check the remote oil filter lines... Bugger, x3 out of 4 are moist at best.
I am now hating those AN alloy connectors. So the remote filter arrangement gets dumped and a small filter gets screwed directly onto the block. Crank it over again. The pressure comes back pretty quick.
So connect the ECU and turn the key.......
Vrrrrrm, vrrrrrm, vrrrrrm on the throttle about x10 times.. Turn it off, go back underneath, repeat draining some oil off.
Phew ! It's still golden & perfectly clear. Top it up.
That'll do for today.
Other than buying a 5/8" Mocal remote filter kit, plus a 22mm to 20mm takeoff adaptor.
Those Chinese parts will NOT be used again on my car.
So once the new parts have arrived & have been fitted, it'll be time to re book it back in with Jools.
Oh, the actual 'new' engine sounds pretty good.
T.
Edited by Blue 30 on Friday 4th June 23:02
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