S1 rebuild....not one for the purist

S1 rebuild....not one for the purist

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Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Friday 6th January 2017
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I see Magpies remote was on an MT75 box which is nice and short. I couldn't find one with a cologne bellhousing other than a 4x4 one, and didn't fancy buying 2 boxes to build one at current prices.

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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greymrj said:

The existing plates under each pair of screw heads rather puzzle me. They are too thick to be used as tabs. There doesnt appear to be a need for load spreaders and they do not tie pairs of bolts together in any way. They are harder than the CV body so they might prevent the screw heads digging in?
The sierra workshop manual refers to the plates as locking plates, I guess they work like washers to prevent the heads pulling into the gaiter flange and relaxing the "stretch" on the bolt, but being linked they can't rotate so help to retain the bolt. I have seen it suggested that you use Loctite 242 on these bolts. The judicious application of heat will release it, but using quality bolts in the first place is the way to go, Iv'e used Unbrako.

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
greymrj said:
The linkage looks like it would be fairly easy to extend but I presume the remote couldnt readily be chassis/body mounted instead? Mounted properly the torque reaction angular displacement of the engine is quite limited. Common these days to mount the remote to the body but modern linkages are often quite long.
A majority of cars these days are Front wheel drive so the gear linkage is a remote box with a pair of push/pull cables. I looked at a polo/audi a3 remote as it has the same reverse position as the t9, but the cables are not flexible enough to bend back to the selector position and the mount was massive, size 12 shoebox size! so no way to get it in. (and i had to put it back in my partners car before she came back from her holiday)

Alan Whitaker

2,054 posts

182 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Alan 1209 said:
The sierra workshop manual refers to the plates as locking plates, I guess they work like washers to prevent the heads pulling into the gaiter flange and relaxing the "stretch" on the bolt, but being linked they can't rotate so help to retain the bolt. I have seen it suggested that you use Loctite 242 on these bolts. The judicious application of heat will release it, but using quality bolts in the first place is the way to go, Iv'e used Unbrako.
That is what they are, a hard surface to bolt up to, some cv boots will not let the plates fit or sit down tight, so get the right boots or trim down the plates. Loctite 242 is right for the bolts, don't think you will get the c/v's hot enough to release it, it has a service temp up to 149c.

Alan

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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phillpot said:
Very interesting to see how you got round issues like first motion shaft length etc.
This shows the interaction of the RX8 g'box and the Cologne flywheel/clutch assy,

this is part 7

glenrobbo

35,251 posts

150 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I am impressed. bow

magpies

5,129 posts

182 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Alan 1209 said:
I see Magpies remote was on an MT75 box which is nice and short. I couldn't find one with a cologne bellhousing other than a 4x4 one, and didn't fancy buying 2 boxes to build one at current prices.
I have a spare 4x4 MT75 which I would sell

greymrj

3,316 posts

204 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
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Alan Whitaker said:
That is what they are, a hard surface to bolt up to, some cv boots will not let the plates fit or sit down tight, so get the right boots or trim down the plates. Loctite 242 is right for the bolts, don't think you will get the c/v's hot enough to release it, it has a service temp up to 149c.

Alan
That all makes sense to me. I have also used Unbrako and Loctite. I did have one inner CV come loose in 2015..thank goodness just as I came through the gate at the 2015 Burghley meet!

I am liking, and finding very interesting, the engineering approach! thumbup
(I have had a fair bit of stick in the past moanfor questioning whether some of the mods made or suggested, especially to matters where stress and safety have been involved, have not been thought through)

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
greymrj said:
That all makes sense to me. I have also used Unbrako and Loctite. I did have one inner CV come loose in 2015..thank goodness just as I came through the gate at the 2015 Burghley meet!

I am liking, and finding very interesting, the engineering approach! thumbup
(I have had a fair bit of stick in the past moanfor questioning whether some of the mods made or suggested, especially to matters where stress and safety have been involved, have not been thought through)
Not seeking to blow my own trumpet but this is one of the machines I designed, it processes rollers 7mtrs long, 800mm dia and 3 tonnes + rotating at 1200 rpm. You don't want that coming out.

Alan Whitaker

2,054 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
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Nothing wrong with blowing a trumpet, even if it's your own. Good job so far, like to see something other than the bog standard as it left the factory.

Alan

greymrj

3,316 posts

204 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
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Agreed with Alan above, no problem in blowing your own trumpet if you really know the music! But call that a machine laugh, a mere bagatelle! Mind you it is a hell of a long time since I worked for the English Electric on power station design! beer A bloody good apprenticeship with them though in those days.

Alan Whitaker

2,054 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
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Just been looking at the RX8 box, the RX motor is a high reving engine but with low torque, how will the gearbox cope with the extra torque from the v6.

Alan

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
Alan Whitaker said:
Just been looking at the RX8 box, the RX motor is a high reving engine but with low torque, how will the gearbox cope with the extra torque from the v6.

Alan
Depends on whether your looking at rotor speed or output shaft speed, which is 1/3 of the rotor speed and 3 times the torque. the peak torque is 220 Nm at 5000 rpm, way higher than the V6 with 168 at 2500. This gearbox is used on the 4 ltr ford ranger in the US and a number of other vehicles including the Lexus IS 200 with 195 Nm, and I know its used in a fair number of racing sierras.



Edited by Alan 1209 on Sunday 8th January 17:00

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
greymrj said:
Agreed with Alan above, no problem in blowing your own trumpet if you really know the music! But call that a machine laugh, a mere bagatelle! Mind you it is a hell of a long time since I worked for the English Electric on power station design! beer A bloody good apprenticeship with them though in those days.
Yes, but without that machine you wouldn't have vinyl flooring for your bathroom, and without its little brother you wouldn't have plastic £5 notes, both so much more important than electricity, and to top it of nor would you have snickers wrappers.......laugh

magpies

5,129 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
Alan 1209 said:
greymrj said:
Agreed with Alan above, no problem in blowing your own trumpet if you really know the music! But call that a machine laugh, a mere bagatelle! Mind you it is a hell of a long time since I worked for the English Electric on power station design! beer A bloody good apprenticeship with them though in those days.
Yes, but without that machine you wouldn't have vinyl flooring for your bathroom, and without its little brother you wouldn't have plastic £5 notes, both so much more important than electricity, and to top it of nor would you have snickers wrappers.......laugh

but without electricity you wouldn't have your machine..... smash

Alan Whitaker

2,054 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
Back to the TVR boy and girls. Have you had to cut the chassis to fit the gearbox. Nice to see someone else with proper tools (mill), You don't have a lot of room where the body fits down on the bottom rails, pictures please.


Alan

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
Alan Whitaker said:
Back to the TVR boy and girls. Have you had to cut the chassis to fit the gearbox. Nice to see someone else with proper tools (mill), You don't have a lot of room where the body fits down on the bottom rails, pictures please.


Alan
Just a slight mod to the 2 uprights, main rails are intact.
replaced with

the new uprights are 50 x 25 x 2.5 RHS.
this increases the available space by 26mm, I have also moved the engine forward 10mm. but given that the new g'box is heavier the impact on front/rear balance is insignificant ( far less than the contents of the fuel tank)

Alan 1209

Original Poster:

157 posts

95 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
magpies said:
Yes, but without that machine you wouldn't have vinyl flooring for your bathroom, and without its little brother you wouldn't have plastic £5 notes, both so much more important than electricity, and to top it of nor would you have snickers wrappers.......laugh

but without electricity you wouldn't have your machine..... smash
Whats wrong with Steamshoot

Alan Whitaker

2,054 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
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That's not so bad, should be ok, welding well could do better but should hold

Alan

Ps what's wrong with a farm tractor on belt drive

magpies

5,129 posts

182 months

Sunday 8th January 2017
quotequote all
Alan 1209 said:
Whats wrong with Steamshoot
how would your machine operate on steam? (most power stations operate using steam - the one I worked at ran at 600degC and 600psi each alternator producing 660 megawatts)