Good deal on Gates fuel hose
Discussion
Been a bit of discussion lately (and still going on on some of the other TVR forums) about fuel hose. I think the outcome was that Gates Barricade is about as good as you can get?
A 25 foot (7.6m) coil of 5/16" (8mm) is given the Part No. 27340
Looking on Amazon full rolls are in the £95 region but one guy had them at a lot less, so much cheaper I was suspicious so I emailed to confirm if genuine, full roll etc.
Got a very polite reply thanking me for pointing out his pricing error and as a thank you he would set the price at his cost, £75, for 24 hours so I could purchase if required. After that it will go back up in line with other sellers at £95.
So if you want some search Gates 27340 on Amazon, but be quick
A 25 foot (7.6m) coil of 5/16" (8mm) is given the Part No. 27340
Looking on Amazon full rolls are in the £95 region but one guy had them at a lot less, so much cheaper I was suspicious so I emailed to confirm if genuine, full roll etc.
Got a very polite reply thanking me for pointing out his pricing error and as a thank you he would set the price at his cost, £75, for 24 hours so I could purchase if required. After that it will go back up in line with other sellers at £95.
So if you want some search Gates 27340 on Amazon, but be quick
Cheaper here at £65.60 a roll...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GATES-27340-BARRICADE-FU...
Gates spec sheet here...
http://www.gatesautocat.com/pdf/universal/GATES_42...
See Gates part number 4219-06039 for the correct 5/16" (8mm) hose.
A roll is 7.6M (25') of hose which is a lot, I've never found anyone prepared to cut into a roll so sharing with some fellow TVR enthusiasts seems like a good idea.
Always use proper hose cutters for a clean square cut.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverline-42mm-Plastic-...
Always use proper 360 degree closing fuel injection hose clips like this.....
Sizing your clips is just as important, a correctly sized clip should close thus...
A clip that's too large will not close fully and will be obvious by being lose on your hose, but in many ways too small is even worse, a clip that's too small is less noticeable but as we can see from this image it will not offer the correct 360 degree closing.
Gates Barricade 4219-06039 5/16" (8mm) hose has an OD of 14mm, ABA from Sweden who make good quality 304 stainless fuel injection hose clips offer 22014 (15/32-9/16", 12-14.3mm), looking at the specs a 22014 clip would seem to be a nice close fit but be careful as you may well be better off with the next size up (22015).
I would recommend taking your new Barricade hose to a local motor factor who sells proper fuel injection hose clips so you can size the clips correctly, these band clamp type clips are excellent but the difference between right & wrong is very small and can vary from clip manufacturer, even the same sized hose from different manufactures can vary fractionally so sizing up the clip in person to your new hose is recommended. Don't forget to take a screw driver to tighten the clamp to your hose in the shop, it may also help to insert a small length of 5/16" (8mm) copper fuel pipe into the hose when sizing up your clip as doing so can swell some hose types just enough to make the smaller clip size fractionally too small.
Jubilee worm drive type clips should never be used on high pressure fuel injection hose as they do not close in an even way, they can and often do pinch your hose so creating the very real possibility of a leak point. TVR used traditional worm drive clips which would be fine on a low pressure carburetor setup, but on a high pressure fuel injection system using worm drive clips was very poor practice indeed.
Beware the seller offering braided hose sets for the Chimaera/Griffith, firstly braided hose only offers one advantage (abrasion resistance) which isn't really an issue that needs addressing on our cars, also be aware braiding doesn't offer the heat resistance you think it does. The real issue with braided hose is the rubber hose beneath it will still degrade, being covered in stainless steel braiding looks cool but the issue is you can't inspect your hoses so you're actually running blind.
Braiding is a weave so is far from being leak proof, a split or perished hose beneath the braiding under the 40psi of pressure your fuel injection system operates at will still leak fuel onto your hot exhaust manifold. This seller then completes his kits by offering them with worm drive clips which clearly shows his lack of knowledge on what is a very safety critical product, you can even upgrade these clips with his range of pretty coloured clip covers but rest assured whats underneath these tarty cosmetic clip covers are still the highly unsuitable worm drive clips and not the proper band type fuel injection clips he should offering. In summary an epic fail from this seller who clearly cares more about making things look pretty than selling the correct engineered solution to a very safety critical component
AVOID!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GATES-27340-BARRICADE-FU...
Gates spec sheet here...
http://www.gatesautocat.com/pdf/universal/GATES_42...
See Gates part number 4219-06039 for the correct 5/16" (8mm) hose.
A roll is 7.6M (25') of hose which is a lot, I've never found anyone prepared to cut into a roll so sharing with some fellow TVR enthusiasts seems like a good idea.
Always use proper hose cutters for a clean square cut.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverline-42mm-Plastic-...
Always use proper 360 degree closing fuel injection hose clips like this.....
Sizing your clips is just as important, a correctly sized clip should close thus...
A clip that's too large will not close fully and will be obvious by being lose on your hose, but in many ways too small is even worse, a clip that's too small is less noticeable but as we can see from this image it will not offer the correct 360 degree closing.
Gates Barricade 4219-06039 5/16" (8mm) hose has an OD of 14mm, ABA from Sweden who make good quality 304 stainless fuel injection hose clips offer 22014 (15/32-9/16", 12-14.3mm), looking at the specs a 22014 clip would seem to be a nice close fit but be careful as you may well be better off with the next size up (22015).
I would recommend taking your new Barricade hose to a local motor factor who sells proper fuel injection hose clips so you can size the clips correctly, these band clamp type clips are excellent but the difference between right & wrong is very small and can vary from clip manufacturer, even the same sized hose from different manufactures can vary fractionally so sizing up the clip in person to your new hose is recommended. Don't forget to take a screw driver to tighten the clamp to your hose in the shop, it may also help to insert a small length of 5/16" (8mm) copper fuel pipe into the hose when sizing up your clip as doing so can swell some hose types just enough to make the smaller clip size fractionally too small.
Jubilee worm drive type clips should never be used on high pressure fuel injection hose as they do not close in an even way, they can and often do pinch your hose so creating the very real possibility of a leak point. TVR used traditional worm drive clips which would be fine on a low pressure carburetor setup, but on a high pressure fuel injection system using worm drive clips was very poor practice indeed.
Beware the seller offering braided hose sets for the Chimaera/Griffith, firstly braided hose only offers one advantage (abrasion resistance) which isn't really an issue that needs addressing on our cars, also be aware braiding doesn't offer the heat resistance you think it does. The real issue with braided hose is the rubber hose beneath it will still degrade, being covered in stainless steel braiding looks cool but the issue is you can't inspect your hoses so you're actually running blind.
Braiding is a weave so is far from being leak proof, a split or perished hose beneath the braiding under the 40psi of pressure your fuel injection system operates at will still leak fuel onto your hot exhaust manifold. This seller then completes his kits by offering them with worm drive clips which clearly shows his lack of knowledge on what is a very safety critical product, you can even upgrade these clips with his range of pretty coloured clip covers but rest assured whats underneath these tarty cosmetic clip covers are still the highly unsuitable worm drive clips and not the proper band type fuel injection clips he should offering. In summary an epic fail from this seller who clearly cares more about making things look pretty than selling the correct engineered solution to a very safety critical component
AVOID!
ChimpOnGas said:
Damn.. 
ChimpOnGas said:
Or click on "part No. 27340" on my original post ... 
Apologies if I am being thick, but what is wrong with buying the fuel hose from here;
https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-l...
Sold by the metre so you can order just the correct amount (+/-), or is there something wrong with this fuel pipe???
I know that tvr parts are not that reliable to hold parts in stock, as I have found trying to order a few ignition parts for the S, but are they going to sell a defective fuel pipe which is critical to safety?? Maybe they don't hold any stock of fuel pipes in which case, it's another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, as any decent Motor Factor will have a selection of flexi fuel hoses and if they are seriously providing a service to TVR owners, then this product should be 'on the shelf' and best quality.
If this is the case then they should be 'outed' on here as a 'dodgy' supplier and maybe reported to Trading Standards!!
Peter
https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-l...
Sold by the metre so you can order just the correct amount (+/-), or is there something wrong with this fuel pipe???
I know that tvr parts are not that reliable to hold parts in stock, as I have found trying to order a few ignition parts for the S, but are they going to sell a defective fuel pipe which is critical to safety?? Maybe they don't hold any stock of fuel pipes in which case, it's another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, as any decent Motor Factor will have a selection of flexi fuel hoses and if they are seriously providing a service to TVR owners, then this product should be 'on the shelf' and best quality.
If this is the case then they should be 'outed' on here as a 'dodgy' supplier and maybe reported to Trading Standards!!
Peter
Edited by yknot on Monday 15th May 18:49
yknot said:
Apologies if I am being thick, but what is wrong with buying the fuel hose from here;
https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-l...
Sold by the metre so you can order just the correct amount (+/-), or is there something wrong with this fuel pipe???
I know that tvr parts are not that reliable to hold parts in stock, as I have found trying to order a few ignition parts for the S, but are they going to sell a defective fuel pipe which is critical to safety?? Maybe they don't hold any stock of fuel pipes in which case, it's another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, as any decent Motor Factor will have a selection of flexi fuel hoses and if they are seriously providing a service to TVR owners, then this product should be 'on the shelf' and best quality.
If this is the case then they should be 'outed' on here as a 'dodgy' supplier and maybe reported to Trading Standards!!
Peter
My questions would be....https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-l...
Sold by the metre so you can order just the correct amount (+/-), or is there something wrong with this fuel pipe???
I know that tvr parts are not that reliable to hold parts in stock, as I have found trying to order a few ignition parts for the S, but are they going to sell a defective fuel pipe which is critical to safety?? Maybe they don't hold any stock of fuel pipes in which case, it's another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned, as any decent Motor Factor will have a selection of flexi fuel hoses and if they are seriously providing a service to TVR owners, then this product should be 'on the shelf' and best quality.
If this is the case then they should be 'outed' on here as a 'dodgy' supplier and maybe reported to Trading Standards!!
Peter
Edited by yknot on Monday 15th May 18:49
1. Who makes it?
2. Where is it made?
3. Does it meet SAE J30R14T2?
4. Is it ethanol safe?
Personally I'd feel happier with Gates Barricade that ticks all four boxes, while the description on the TVR Parts site covers none of the above leaving you rather guessing on what will turn up, I'd also suggest you don't really need the services of a TVR parts specialist to supply you with something like fuel hose.
All just in my opinion you understand
ChimpOnGas said:
My questions would be....
1. Who makes it?
2. Where is it made?
3. Does it meet SAE J30R14T2?
4. Is it ethanol safe?
Personally I'd feel happier with Gates Barricade that ticks all four boxes, while the description on the TVR Parts site covers none of the above leaving you rather guessing on what will turn up, I'd also suggest you don't really need the services of a TVR parts specialist to supply you with something like fuel hose.
All just in my opinion you understand
I get your point however, if there is only one manufacturer (currently?) who can meet the highest quality then I expect a company who purports to be a TVR dedicated supplier to provide this product. After all, if the best/safest quality is available to purchase on ebay then a TVR- focused business should be offering this as standard, or am I missing something??1. Who makes it?
2. Where is it made?
3. Does it meet SAE J30R14T2?
4. Is it ethanol safe?
Personally I'd feel happier with Gates Barricade that ticks all four boxes, while the description on the TVR Parts site covers none of the above leaving you rather guessing on what will turn up, I'd also suggest you don't really need the services of a TVR parts specialist to supply you with something like fuel hose.
All just in my opinion you understand
yknot said:
I get your point however, if there is only one manufacturer (currently?) who can meet the highest quality then I expect a company who purports to be a TVR dedicated supplier to provide this product. After all, if the best/safest quality is available to purchase on ebay then a TVR- focused business should be offering this as standard, or am I missing something??
Yes you're missing something, or rather you're making assumptions that TVR parts is some sort of OEM suppler of the very best quality components available.Please keep in mind a TVR from new was a miss mash of parts from other manufacturers, fast forward 20 years and TVR Parts are just selling a miss mash of parts from many different suppliers many of whom aren't even the original OEM supplier which makes a mockery of the 'Official TVR Parts' marketing bull they try to pedal.
The truth is in almost every case there's no such thing as an original TVR part because by their very nature they're all just parts from something else, don't just assume because it comes from TVR Parts Ltd its anything other than the exact same thing from the exact same manufacturer you can typically buy for half the price or less yourself once you've established what vehicle it's from.
Sometimes the parts sold by TVR Parts are inferior to what you could buy yourself, the fuel hose is a good case in point, sometimes you'll see a good idea on Piston Heads from an enthusiast that suddenly becomes an official TVR part, ACCEL Extreme 9000 Ceramic HT leads presented on the Chimaera forum by an owner is a perfect example of this.
The model for becoming a TVR parts is built around having a cross reference spreadsheet that shows what parts come from where and what TVR model they fit, from there the TVR parts specialists just needs to build up his supplier base and post his items on his website while adding a healthy margin on the suggestion he's offering some sort of source of holy grail 'Official TVR Parts' unavailable from anywhere else.
Ask TVR Parts Ltd for the type approval data sheets on all their so called 'Official TVR Parts' and watch them squirm, if you have a Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar or a vehicle from any other respectable manufacturer and choose to buy their genuine parts it's this type approval you're paying for. TVR parts Ltd make a big play of being the only 'Official TVR Parts' supplier, but the truth is their parts are nothing of the sort and offer none of support you'd expect when buying a genuine OEM part from any true vehicle manufacturer.
TVR parts specialists have their place, the reward for building their cross reference databases are to some degree justified even if their margins are often eye watering when you consider often all they're doing is taking a part out of its box and putting it in a plastic bag so they can hide its origins and claim it to be an 'Official TVR Part'. Many however will quite understandably be happy to pay the premium safe in the knowledge the part will fit first time, most TVR repairers will use TVR parts suppliers for this very reason because its just not worth the time and hassle of getting the wrong part for a job.
But please don't assume just because you see something on the TVR Parts Ltd website it's something that can't buy much cheaper elsewhere and don't assume it's the best quality part you can buy either, as I've already said in the absence of proper technical information on their fuel hose I'd definitely be choosing Gates Barricade over the TVR Parts offering.
I replaced the large bore pipe tank to pump pipe a couple of years ago. I have however noticed some cracking on the pump to injector pipe which is flexi 'rubber' throughout and could well be original.
I was going to go for the Gates Barricade 1/4 bore on the line between pump and injection until I spotted this by accident in the MOSS catalogue ' Not suitable for high pressure fuel injection, can be used on the low pressure fuel return'.
I suspect however it is rated at 140psi which would probably be OK on the S but I wasnt going to risk it.
After discussion with them I have bought a new fuel line from Car Builder Solutions, opting for the their top spec Ethanol suitable FUHO6ET. Which is rated OK at 280psi.
They do 6,8,10,12,14mm ID per metre. The fuel feed on mine is a little under 3mtr long.
I was going to go for the Gates Barricade 1/4 bore on the line between pump and injection until I spotted this by accident in the MOSS catalogue ' Not suitable for high pressure fuel injection, can be used on the low pressure fuel return'.
I suspect however it is rated at 140psi which would probably be OK on the S but I wasnt going to risk it.
After discussion with them I have bought a new fuel line from Car Builder Solutions, opting for the their top spec Ethanol suitable FUHO6ET. Which is rated OK at 280psi.
They do 6,8,10,12,14mm ID per metre. The fuel feed on mine is a little under 3mtr long.
greymrj said:
I was going to go for the Gates Barricade 1/4 bore on the line between pump and injection until I spotted this by accident in the MOSS catalogue ' Not suitable for high pressure fuel injection, can be used on the low pressure fuel return'.
According to the Gates spec sheet linked to above the "Barricade" is rated at 15.5 bar ( about 225 psi), are you sure Moss weren't selling the Gates "carburetor" pipe?How much was it per metre?
phillpot said:
According to the Gates spec sheet linked to above the "Barricade" is rated at 15.5 bar ( about 225 psi), are you sure Moss weren't selling the Gates "carburetor" pipe?
How much was it per metre?
Wonder if it is an error on the part of Moss?How much was it per metre?
ttps://www.moss-europe.co.uk/fuel-hose-gates-barricade-ethanol-proof-1-4-id-per-metre-gfh1025x.html
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