Wiper assembly removal

Wiper assembly removal

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Discussion

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Saturday 3rd June 2017
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My nearside wiper spindle has seized in the sleeve that comes through the body work. The whole sleeve turns in the fibreglass as the wipers move. ( I am not very surprised as, from talking to the previous owners, I don’t think the car has been out in the rain since it left the factory).
Its an S2 with the cable type wheel boxes. I’ve been back to the “bible” and looked at a number of previous posts (particular thanks to Alan Whitaker, Glenrobbo and Phillpot). It would appear its possible to remove the wheel box without removing the dashboard. But as someone with big fingers and small brain I cant for the life of me see how.
I can see how to unbolt the motor from behind the glove box, and undo the nuts on the wiper spindle sleeves to push them back into the car, but the assembly including the motor appears to take up the whole width of the car so there doesn’t seem any room to move it sideways to get it out from behind the dash. Do the cable and tubes disconnect from the motor or are the tubes flexible enough to bend down into the passenger footwell without kinking. I would rather not start the job until I have clear idea how to do it, so any advice will be very gratefully received.


Edited by lewdon on Saturday 3rd June 18:02

Bobhon

1,057 posts

178 months

Saturday 3rd June 2017
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The tube is held onto the motor by a big nut. Once you have undone the mounting bolts of the motor and undone the big nut then you can pull the motor and its extremely greasy drive cable out of the car.

I think that you are then left with a tube - spindle - tube - spindle - tube affair.

Undoing the spindle nut on the outside of the bulkhead will let you drop out the spindle and I would ASSUME that the tube is just a push fit into it as it doesn't take any load.

How you get your hands behind the dash to reach the spindles is the task I would have thought. Expect fibreglass rash on the backs of your hands as a minimum.

I THINK that Car Builder Solutions sell the motors, spindles and tubes for kit cars. If so then you can see all of the bits and how they go together on their website.

Bob

p.s. BOLD TEXT = Could be like this, but please don't come back with flames if it isn't.

phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Saturday 3rd June 2017
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The tubes between the wheelbox's have a little flare on the end (bit like a brake pipe) The wheelbox's themselves are clamped together and onto them by two nuts, I can't recall if there is room to split it in position?

If there is I imagine it would be quite a fiddle!

Wheelbox's are different ratio's, again long time since I did mine but possibly left hand (nearside) is a common ratio and right hand maybe not totally unique to TVR but not so readily available?




SVC list two ratio's, 32 and 40 teeth.... clicky... but these are possibly not the two you require?


Might be worth a call to Adrian at Exactly TVR, he's definitely the man for wiper motors and may well be able to find you a wheelbox... scratchchin

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Saturday 3rd June 2017
quotequote all
Thanks Bobhon and Phillpot, info very much appreciated.
I think if I push both spindles back into the car and remove the motor and cable as you suggest there should be enough room to pull the tubes and spindles towards the passenger side enough to be able to unclamp the wheelbox and remove the tube section, repeated for the drivers side wheelbox.
I assume the gear wheel in the wheelbox has teeth all the way round so doesn’t need to be in any particular position when I put the cable back in. (one of the posts mention teeth only on a quadrant).
I vaguely remember a post where someone, it may have been Phillpot - I can’t find it at the moment, suggested using rubber hose for the wedge shaped spacers, to make the spindles point at the correct angle, does anyone know whether that proved to be a long term solution?

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Saturday 3rd June 2017
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If one of the spindles is seized then you will not be able to pull the drive cable out.
If you look at the picture supplied above you will see two nuts which hold the face plate on the wheel box. Removing these and the plate will both release the drive cable and release the tubes.

I think you will find that the ones CBS sell are too short. Also I think the wheel boxes are different ratios from one side to the other.

I did this same job recently so Ping me an email to steve at southwaysautomotive .co.uk and I will have a look Monday and see where I bought them.

The plastic wedges and nuts are available from a number of sources including CBS.

Steve

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
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Thanks, Steve, I've sent you an email.
I am hoping that as the spindle sleave turns in the fibreglass with the wiper I will be able to lock two nuts onto the spindle and use a spanner to turn it and the sleave together to push out the cable once the motor is loose..
Did you replace yours with the dashboard still in place?


Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
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lewdon said:
Thanks, Steve, I've sent you an email.
I am hoping that as the spindle sleave turns in the fibreglass with the wiper I will be able to lock two nuts onto the spindle and use a spanner to turn it and the sleave together to push out the cable once the motor is loose..
Did you replace yours with the dashboard still in place?
I would not spend any time trying to get the cable out as you still have to remove the face plate to get the wheelbox off the tubes.
It was a customer car I was working on and the dash was out but I think you should still be able to do it with the dash in.

Steve

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
quotequote all
Well with much cursing and considerable bloodshed the wiper wheel boxes are out. Thanks everybody on the forum who helped me understand how to do it with the dashboard still in place.
A few notes for anyone else who might need to do it.
I couldn’t get at the passenger side wheel box to unclamp it in situ no matter how I tried. It might have been possible with a very long ratchet spanner but I doubt it. I had to give it up after I had tried everything I could think of to get at it with the tools I have.
The sequence I eventually used was;-
Cut all the numerous cable ties holding harness and heater pipes etc to the wiper tubes (I think they hung everything from them before they put the dash in).
Unplug the wiper motor. Loosen the nut holding the tube to the motor. Undo the clamp holding the motor to its mounting plate. (The two studs are fixed into the plate, there is no need to remove the plate itself).
The cable would not just pull out of the tube so, with the motor supported, I undid the nut holding the sleeves in the angled spacers and locked two nuts together on the seized spindle and, with considerable force, I was able to turn it and the sleeve together, clockwise, with a spanner to push the cable out of the tube.
With the motor and cable out of the way I removed the passenger footwell heater pipe..
I then pushed the the wiper spindles into the car, this sounds easy but on my car there was very little clearance behind the passenger wheelbox as it comes up against the heater. I eventually succeeded by rotating the spindles towards the windscreen and then pushed the wheelboxes towards the front of the car.
I then unclamped the drivers side wheelbox, (NB the clamping nuts on the wheelbox are 3/8”AF)
With this out I was then able to slide the passenger side wheelbox over to the footwell where I could get at it to unclamp it from the centre tube. I have left the centre tube in the car for the moment..
Tomorrows task is to count the number of teeth and order new wheelboxes, as they are both as knackered as I am.


magpies

5,129 posts

181 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
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good reporting eek

you may need some luck when re-assembling

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Monday 5th June 2017
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Quick look through records
Rubber wedges http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361491488408
Wheelbox Adrian at exactly-tvr.demon.co.uk 60027003 8WB
Pair of nuts http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252012335816

The wheelbox I can't remember which side it was but as I said I think they are different one side to other...drivers side probably has the larger sweep.
get the part number from your dead one. I failed to find any other source for the wheelbox and the one I bought was secondhand so I wish you luck.

Steve

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Monday 5th June 2017
quotequote all
Thanks Steve, Very much appreciated.

I'll take the boxes apart tonight and count the number of teeth. (They are definitely different sizes, with the larger one on the drivers side).

mentall

453 posts

129 months

Monday 5th June 2017
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These people any help? I know they can offer advice, not just the parts they catalogue. Also useful for door window drive parts.

lewdon

Original Poster:

316 posts

164 months

Tuesday 27th June 2017
quotequote all
It’s several weeks now since I replaced my wiper wheelbox but I thought I would close out the thread with a few notes that might be helpful to anyone else who may need to do it.
Yes it is possible to do it with the dashboard in place and turned out to be less difficult than I expected.

Notes;-

My passenger side wheelbox has 40 teeth and has a standout of 78.5mm from the gearcase to the end of the thread on the spindle. it is marked LUCAS with the number 60027003.
My driver’s side wheelbox has 50 teeth and the same standout, it is marked 60027004,

A replacement 40 tooth wheelbox was £35 from Adrian Venn at Exactly TVR. (I was able to refurbish my 50 tooth box).
The wedge shaped rubber spacers were from Wood & Picket Mini Centre (all 4 for £6.49), tall ones go on inside, short ones on the outside.

To get access you need to lower the underside of the glovebox (where the fuses and ECU are), take off the piece of trim which contains the ashtray and remove the passenger side corrugated heater hose. (If the hose is brittle and cracked as mine was then 50mm pond hose makes a good replacement at about £6 a metre)

When you pull out the motor and rack cable from the tube it is a good idea to do so directly into a large plastic bag. (Black greasy cable and magnolia trim don’t go together).

I tied a string to the drivers end of the middle Bowden tube before pulling it out on the passenger side.so I could pull it back through the same route when re-assembling.

Mark the tube that goes to the motor before releasing it from the passenger wheelbox so it can be assembled to the new one with the bend at the correct angle to align with the motor. (I didn’t and getting the angle right by trial and error proved a bit of a pain)

Trial assemble it all on the bench and run the motor. Mine felt smooth by hand but had a real growl with the motor running. I had to bend the tabs on the new wheelbox to accurately align the tubes with the pinion to get It to run quietly.

To put it back, assemble both tubes to the passenger side wheelbox and tighten. Fit the inside wedge shaped spacer (I put a 1mm thick washer on the spindle sleeve first to stop the shoulder pulling into the spacer). Tie the string to the end of the middle tube and with the spindle pointed towards the back of the car feed the middle tube in from the passenger side, pulling the string to guide the end through to the drivers side. . (NB: When you tie on the string to pull it back streamline it with electrical tape, I didn’t - and the end of the tube caught on the inside of the washer nozzle – replacement £1.79 from Halfords)

Once the passenger wheel box is in line with its hole, rotate the tube to bring the spindle up and forward through the hole.
Fit the outer spacer and washer, then screw on the nut to hold the passenger wheelbox loosely in place.

Then fit the drivers side wheel box loosely and clamp the bowden tubes into it. (access would be easier with the seat removed but there is just room to get under the steering wheel to do it without).

Feed in regreased rack cable and fit and clamp the motor. Then tighten the top nuts on the sleaves to clamp top and bottom wedge spacers together onto the bodywork to hold the wheelboxes in place.

Lots of cable ties, replace heater hose and the ashtray trim etc and jobs a goodun. I hope this all makes some sort of sense.

greymrj

3,316 posts

203 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Doesnt look like anybody thanked you for that interesting and valuable contribution. Always nice to see actual experience and lessons learnt.

Slightly different issue for me though, does anybody out there know the source of the earlier S1 wiper pivots. Mine has the earlier crank arm system. I found and adapted a motor and eventually got the angular rotation right but the passengers side pivot has been bodged at some time. I have rebodged it and it has lasted for several years but it wont last much longer so I need to source replacement if I can. If I cant a bit of tricky engineering will be involved!

TVRees

1,080 posts

111 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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greymrj said:
Doesnt look like anybody thanked you for that interesting and valuable contribution. Always nice to see actual experience and lessons learnt.
This is indeed very useful info. I'll add a link to the post to the alt. parts list.

greymrj

3,316 posts

203 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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Good man Rees.

Regrettably my efforts to find out what the source was for the early S crank arm wipers have drawn a blank so far. I tried the Wedges but they use a completely different system. I thought the early S one was Vauxhall as it used an AC Delco motor but no luck so far there. I though the wiper spindles might be Granada Sierra judging by the spindle size, but no luck their either so far. TVR!!!!!!!!

glenrobbo

35,076 posts

149 months

Friday 30th June 2017
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greymrj said:
Good man Rees.

Regrettably my efforts to find out what the source was for the early S crank arm wipers have drawn a blank so far. I tried the Wedges but they use a completely different system. I thought the early S one was Vauxhall as it used an AC Delco motor but no luck so far there. I though the wiper spindles might be Granada Sierra judging by the spindle size, but no luck their either so far. TVR!!!!!!!!
Richard, ISTR it may have been Vauxhall Royale/ Opel Senator wiper spindles or similar on the very early S1's? You can find them in the same scrapyards as those rocking horses....
Not sure but the same may have been fitted to Peugeots of that era? 305???

What were fitted to Minis of that period? I'm sure they were rod & bellcrank operated wipers.

greymrj

3,316 posts

203 months

Friday 30th June 2017
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Hi Glen. Certainly the early mini's used cable and wheelbox, as far as I am aware that continued until the BMW mini which is crank arm (but of course completely different).

I will pursue the Peugeot idea again. Surprisingly there appear to be more around in scrappys than Vauxhalls of the same period. The wiper motor I used was an AC Delco off a Peugeot, (and it gave me intermittent), 405 I think, and that did have the motor at one side of the car as arranged on the TVR. (Whereas most modern cars have the motor in the middle, which is fundamentally better). Cant immegiately see anything on Google which looks right but looks like a trip to an old fashioned 'pile em high' scrappy is called for.
Does Austin have the crank system, and if so did you have problems with the wiper spindle mounting?

greymrj

3,316 posts

203 months

Friday 30th June 2017
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Thanks Glen, Adrian Venn has now given me a link to the Matador company who manufacture wiper assemblies and were a supplier to TVR. I will follow it up.

glenrobbo

35,076 posts

149 months

Friday 30th June 2017
quotequote all
greymrj said:
Hi Glen. Certainly the early mini's used cable and wheelbox, as far as I am aware that continued until the BMW mini which is crank arm (but of course completely different).

I will pursue the Peugeot idea again. Surprisingly there appear to be more around in scrappys than Vauxhalls of the same period. The wiper motor I used was an AC Delco off a Peugeot, (and it gave me intermittent), 405 I think, and that did have the motor at one side of the car as arranged on the TVR.
P
Does Austin have the crank system, and if so did you have problems with the wiper spindle mounting?
Yes, Austin has the crank system and yes, the wiper spindles were seizing when I first bought the car.
I posted a "how to do it" on here sometime ago, late 2011 or early 2012.
Removing the assemblies from the front scuttle was the hardest part to manage without damaging the bodywork.
I'll try to find the thread and post a link to it.

Edit: I still can't find the pictures, but here is the method:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=11...

Edited by glenrobbo on Friday 30th June 14:26