wiring for electric mirrors - Chimaera / Griffith style

wiring for electric mirrors - Chimaera / Griffith style

Author
Discussion

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Wiring diagrams are really just for guidance on a TVR. Have you tried my suggestion of putting a live feed to each output wire and see what happens? If you don't get movement in four directions on each mirror then the problem will be downstream of the joy-stick. Don't forget to check the L/R switch is working properly.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
I've found more information from another topic that will surely be of some help. See post from zombeh at 16 posts down https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...



I can see two errors/differences with the colour codes that have been posted

Error/Difference 1 - Black/-Slate Should be Black/White

Error/Difference 2 - Slate Should be Grey

These match your car and the image from v8s4me

Please do note that in the above image Black plastic covers have been used to identify the wires that connect to the middle terminals of the change-over switch

Read all the topic, there are posters in that topic including v8s4me that still post here

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 19th September 18:56

RobXjcoupe

3,151 posts

90 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
v8s4me said:
Wiring diagrams are really just for guidance on a TVR. Have you tried my suggestion of putting a live feed to each output wire and see what happens? If you don't get movement in four directions on each mirror then the problem will be downstream of the joy-stick. Don't forget to check the L/R switch is working properly.
Agree with you as I'm trying to say the same thing. No point worrying about circuit diagram colour charts if colours don't match.
Two motors per mirror, shared ground. Use a battery charger or a scalextric/train set 12v transformer smile

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
RobXjcoupe said:
v8s4me said:
Wiring diagrams are really just for guidance on a TVR. Have you tried my suggestion of putting a live feed to each output wire and see what happens? If you don't get movement in four directions on each mirror then the problem will be downstream of the joy-stick. Don't forget to check the L/R switch is working properly.
Agree with you as I'm trying to say the same thing. No point worrying about circuit diagram colour charts if colours don't match.
Two motors per mirror, shared ground. Use a battery charger or a scalextric/train set 12v transformer smile
It can't be done until the motors and solenoids are all disconnected at the doors, applying a supply to something proves nothing
Once the mirrors are disconnected from the vehicles wiring harness the motors and solenoids can be individually tested, even after testing and if all is ok it is then back to the beginning in diagnosing for a switch or wiring fault
You wouldn't be posting this stuff if you knew that the mirror motors worked by reversing the polarity to them and also by operating the solenoids

Why will there be 2 motors per mirror when there is a very good chance of there being 1 motor and a solenoid? Who knows until the mirrors are opened up or tested against a known to be good diagram


Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 19th September 20:03

phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
Why will there be 2 motors per mirror
Because some people have specific TVR knowledge rather than a bit of general knowledge (or they are better at Googling info.) wink




Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
phillpot said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Why will there be 2 motors per mirror
Because some people have specific TVR knowledge rather than a bit of general knowledge (or they are better at Googling info.) wink



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Oldred_V8S

3,714 posts

237 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
phillpot said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Why will there be 2 motors per mirror
Because some people have specific TVR knowledge rather than a bit of general knowledge (or they are better at Googling info.) wink



I love you for stalking me
Please do keep stalking me
Please do keep attemping to achieve whatever you are attempting to achieve
I am happy that you are following me around this part of the PH Forums
I am more than happy that the sharing of my vast ammount of knowledge bothers you
I love you very much for your entertainment
I love you more for the many times you bring a smile to my face
I love you, your humour and the energy that you put into following me
I love the way you post your comments to me in such a beautifull manner
I love you through and through
Thank you for everything
All my love until the next time
I send you big hugs and a sweet and gentle kiss on each cheek
PS Love You Love You Love You
Bloody hell, it looks like we could be having another S-Club wedding soon.

Oldred_V8S

3,714 posts

237 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Right OP, just been out to the garage to get my notebook.

This is how my joystick is wired.

2x black - 12 O'Clock position
Red - 1 O'Clock
Orange - 5 O'Clock
Green - 6 O'Clock
Blue - 7 O'Clock
Grey - 11 O'clock

Stupidly I did not record the switch orientation but if it works 180 degrees out, rotate the switch but use the same positions. It looks like V8S4Me's switch is wired the same. The blacks should be the lowest contact by the looks of it, but of course the switch could be fitted either way around

Edited by Oldred_V8S on Tuesday 19th September 21:34

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Oldred_V8S said:
Right OP, just been out to the garage to get my notebook.

This is how my joystick is wired.

2x black - 12 O'Clock position
Red - 1 O'Clock
Orange - 5 O'Clock
Green - 6 O'Clock
Blue - 7 O'Clock
Grey - 11 O'clock

Stupidly I did not record the switch orientation but if it works 180 degrees out, rotate the switch but use the same positions. It looks like V8S4Me's switch is wired the same. The blacks should be the lowest contact by the looks of it, but of course the switch could be fitted either way around

Edited by Oldred_V8S on Tuesday 19th September 21:34
Although I didn't reply to your comments in my 18 Volts Starting Circuit topic I feel it would be wrong of me to not reply to this post.
The help you have posted above and the trouble you have taken to acquire the information is second to none, internet forums would be far better if posters to them spent more time in trying to solve others problems rather than bh at one another
Unfortunately when some of us feel the need to correct those that have posted a load of complete and utter bks the temperature rises and the slanging begins, such is life with some

Would you happen to know what type of mirrors are fitted to your vehicle, do the mirrors have 1 motor and 1 solenoid/clutch or do they have 2 motors?
Should you have the above information it may help me to help the OP in solving a bh of a problem
Thank you in advance
Once again great work on your part

Oldred_V8S

3,714 posts

237 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
Oldred_V8S said:
Right OP, just been out to the garage to get my notebook.

This is how my joystick is wired.

2x black - 12 O'Clock position
Red - 1 O'Clock
Orange - 5 O'Clock
Green - 6 O'Clock
Blue - 7 O'Clock
Grey - 11 O'clock

Stupidly I did not record the switch orientation but if it works 180 degrees out, rotate the switch but use the same positions. It looks like V8S4Me's switch is wired the same. The blacks should be the lowest contact by the looks of it, but of course the switch could be fitted either way around

Edited by Oldred_V8S on Tuesday 19th September 21:34
Although I didn't reply to your comments in my 18 Volts Starting Circuit topic I feel it would be wrong of me to not reply to this post.
The help you have posted above and the trouble you have taken to acquire the information is second to none, internet forums would be far better if posters to them spent more time in trying to solve others problems rather than bh at one another
Unfortunately when some of us feel the need to correct those that have posted a load of complete and utter bks the temperature rises and the slanging begins, such is life with some

Would you happen to know what type of mirrors are fitted to your vehicle, do the mirrors have 1 motor and 1 solenoid/clutch or do they have 2 motors?
Should you have the above information it may help me to help the OP in solving a bh of a problem
Thank you in advance
Once again great work on your part
The mirrors are the Citroen type, same as the OP. They are driven by two motors. Aston Martin, Jaguar and others I believe have used these mirrors too.

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Thanks everybody, I hadn't realised just how friendly everybody was on the PH forums biggrin
I'm having a break from the car at the moment as it is driving me nuts and I do have some work to do too frown

Oldred_v8s, where you looking at the rear of the joystick or from the from as if you were looking from the rear, your switch is actually wired in the mirror image of v8s4me ?

I'll get the door trims off next, I'm fairly sure my joystick is wired correctly (subject to my question to Oldred_v8s) I can hear a solenoid clicking. Still not 100% sure about which black/white and black/yellow wire goes where but I have tried all 4 possibilities and still no joy.
The fuse board is fixed to the side of the passenger footwell and I'll check those are all ok as I've also noticed that the strange bulb holder with the fibre optics coming out of it to illuminate the switches, does not work and has no voltage supplied to it when lights are on and ignition is on.
I'm beginning to realise how good the wiring is on my Chimaera, and I don't think many people have ever said that of a TVR before
Cheers
David

Edited by The Horse on Wednesday 20th September 09:35

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
The Horse said:
....... I've also noticed that the strange bulb holder with the fibre optics coming out of it to illuminate the switches, does not work and has no voltage supplied to it when lights are on and ignition is on....
Hopefully this is just the bullet connector. Jamming the radio in can pull some connections apart all too easily.

Just be thankful you're not working on the Wiring on an early Wedge banghead

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Thanks v8s4me
The feed to the fibre optic light seems to come from the driver's side electric window switch, I can't find a problem with the wiring at the moment...
One thing I have realised about the joystick wiring is that I only have 1 x black wire running to it, it looks like the original TVR connector and I can't see a spare black wire in the area but perhaps something else to look into..

glenrobbo

35,086 posts

149 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Oldred_V8S said:
Bloody hell, it looks like we could be having another S-Club wedding soon.
It's amazing what some people will do for cake! yum

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Oldred_V8S said:
The mirrors are the Citroen type, same as the OP. They are driven by two motors. Aston Martin, Jaguar and others I believe have used these mirrors too.
Thank you for this

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
FAO Nijinsky
is it possible for you to upload some images of what you have

Oldred_V8S

3,714 posts

237 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
The Horse said:
Thanks everybody, I hadn't realised just how friendly everybody was on the PH forums biggrin
I'm having a break from the car at the moment as it is driving me nuts and I do have some work to do too frown

Oldred_v8s, where you looking at the rear of the joystick or from the from as if you were looking from the rear, your switch is actually wired in the mirror image of v8s4me ?

I'll get the door trims off next, I'm fairly sure my joystick is wired correctly (subject to my question to Oldred_v8s) I can hear a solenoid clicking. Still not 100% sure about which black/white and black/yellow wire goes where but I have tried all 4 possibilities and still no joy.
The fuse board is fixed to the side of the passenger footwell and I'll check those are all ok as I've also noticed that the strange bulb holder with the fibre optics coming out of it to illuminate the switches, does not work and has no voltage supplied to it when lights are on and ignition is on.
I'm beginning to realise how good the wiring is on my Chimaera, and I don't think many people have ever said that of a TVR before
Cheers
David

Edited by The Horse on Wednesday 20th September 09:35
Hi David

My switch is wired the same as V8S4ME's so from the front.

The relay you can hear clicking is the changeover relay from side to side motion to up and down.

The Horse

Original Poster:

110 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
After pulling all the relays out and cleaning contacts I've made some progress
With the mirror selector "left", the left (nearside) mirror works fine BUT, when the joystick is down or right, the driver's mirror also moves right.
With the mirror selector "middle", when the joystick is moved down or right, the driver's mirror moves right.
With the mirror selector "right", the driver's mirror moves up ok, nothing when joystick is moved left, fine when joystick moved right but when the joystick is moved down, the mirror moves to the right and down.
In short, the drivers mirror moves right when the joystick is moved down or right in all "selector" positions and the driver's mirror will not move left (the motor which moves it left will not reverse.
Those of you who understand "electrickery" better than me, any ideas ?
The fibre-optic junction box has also decided to work ....
Thanks
David

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
The Horse said:
After pulling all the relays out and cleaning contacts I've made some progress
With the mirror selector "left", the left (nearside) mirror works fine BUT, when the joystick is down or right, the driver's mirror also moves right.
With the mirror selector "middle", when the joystick is moved down or right, the driver's mirror moves right.
With the mirror selector "right", the driver's mirror moves up ok, nothing when joystick is moved left, fine when joystick moved right but when the joystick is moved down, the mirror moves to the right and down.
In short, the drivers mirror moves right when the joystick is moved down or right in all "selector" positions and the driver's mirror will not move left (the motor which moves it left will not reverse.
Those of you who understand "electrickery" better than me, any ideas ?
The fibre-optic junction box has also decided to work ....
Thanks
David
I like anyone else would be guessing what's causing the problem, you need to check the wiring through and be sure it's correct
Assuming that you have dual motor mirrors the following diagram will give you enough help to check the circuits out, the big problem with this diagram is that the colours don't match up with your cars colours, at least you will be able to check the circuits out from switches to mirrors and relay using this diagram. You could even write your colours to this diagram as you check the circuits through

Taken from https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Click image to go bigger then click again for full size



If it were me checking through this circuit I would

1) Remove both door panels to gain access to where the mirrors plug into the door harnesses and disconnect them
2) Disconnect both switches
3) Locate and disconnect the relay
4) Looking at the plugs from the mirrors and using a meter, find out what wires are the commons from both motors at each door
5) Using a suitably fused 12 Volt supply from a car battery I would test all 4 motors and mirror mechanisms by reversing the polarity to each motor and seeing them operate left to right and up and down
6) Now having 4 known good motors and mechanisms I would note the colours from each motor so as to be sure I would later be terminating those motors correctly at the change-over switch
7) Having reconnected the mirrors to the door wiring harnesses, using the above fused supply carry out a re-test of the motors by powering them at the center console area where they had earlier been disconnected and rectify any found open or short circuit wiring
8) Now having 4 known good motors and mechanisms and motor wires from switches to motors, test the relay and the circuits positive and negative
9) Using the image and the diagram from above work out the termination of the switches knowing that 4 of the 6 wires from the motors to the center console connect to the change-over switch and the only mistake I could possibly make would be to mix up the up and down and left and right actions yet if doing so I would also know that this is easily rectified by swapping the wires over and that the motors should still perform each action even if not matching the joystick positions

I hope this helps

v8s4me

7,234 posts

218 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
If it were me checking through this circuit I would

1) Remove both door panels to gain access to where the mirrors plug into the door harnesses and disconnect them....
5) Using a suitably fused 12 Volt supply from a car battery I would test all 4 motors and mirror mechanisms by reversing the polarity to each motor and seeing them operate left to right and up and down...
Given that removing the door panels is a real PIA job on our cars wouldn't it be good if there was a way of checking the mirror motors without having to do that?

I know, how about....

v8s4me said:
... get your AVO out and check each wire going into the back of the switch. Find the live and the earth (if there is one on the switch - can't remember) and then connect the live to each of the other wires in turn to see what happens.
If each mirror can be made to move in all four planes then you know you have four good motors. If not then you may have to take the door panels off.

But before you do that, check the direction switch is wired correctly. Is it wired like this?



Of course yours may have completely different colours laugh

Edited by v8s4me on Wednesday 20th September 18:57