Tick over high
Discussion
Hi all,help reqd! Fuel problem -see last post.Fuel Hesitation at bends and pulling away hard.Air intake pipe found to have air gap at engine side so pipe/clip repositioned /retightened.Ran to work this morning started fine,no hesitation but when stopping at traffic lights after 6 miles tick over very high.Cleaned all plugs onto WUR,AAD,TTS and FSV with contact cleaner.No change driving home.? When pipes off AAD can see not fully closed engine hot and same when cold? Dave .car daily runner!
Hi Dave
The AAD should be closed when hot and open when cold, I would remove it cold and spray some carb cleaner in there, then cover both ends with finger and thumb..shake it up and empty out..repeat a couple of times.. then gently warm it with a heat gun to see if it closes...you could wrap it in kitchen towel and put it in the freezer for a few minutes afterwards to see if its opening...Could also be a sticky throttle linkage...do you have a throttle return spring on there?...do as Adam said...blip the throttle at the throttle body and let it go quick..Is it sticking?...
Air will increase the idle.....check all air hoses...There are resistance checks you could do to the unit if you are good with a meter...Im not unfortunately...
The AAD should be closed when hot and open when cold, I would remove it cold and spray some carb cleaner in there, then cover both ends with finger and thumb..shake it up and empty out..repeat a couple of times.. then gently warm it with a heat gun to see if it closes...you could wrap it in kitchen towel and put it in the freezer for a few minutes afterwards to see if its opening...Could also be a sticky throttle linkage...do you have a throttle return spring on there?...do as Adam said...blip the throttle at the throttle body and let it go quick..Is it sticking?...
Air will increase the idle.....check all air hoses...There are resistance checks you could do to the unit if you are good with a meter...Im not unfortunately...
Hi,Update -AAD working ok.Resistance checks ok on AAD and WUR.Found vacuum leak - pipe from rocker cover breather to rubber cap over air sensor plate.New pipe fitted.Later ,car ran,idle back at 800.Hesitation showed up again (previous post) after being stuck in stop/start traffic for 1/2 hour.Hot day.pulling away from standstill at traffic lights 1st 2nd and 3 rd brief hesitation in those gears.When reaching home turning into our road - brief hesitation! So not sure if fuel surge (swirl pot needed?)dirt in fuel system? (Injection cleaner/new filter?) another vacuum leak? Ignition fault ? though no other indications.Fuel mixture - too lean? too rich? Any other ideas most welcome.Ran ocassionally in colder winter months no hesitation.Will run to work again tomorrow see if it hesitates on way to work in less stop/start traffic? Dave
My pitch is a 'back to basic' approach.
1. if idle is too high, then air is getting in somewhere. If it's getting in after the metering flap, it will make the mixture weak (as it's not going past the flap). This won't help with hesitation etc.
You should be able to simply squeeze the air hose flat to test the auxiliary air valve, without taking it off. When cold you can easily spot the engine slowing, but it should make hardly any difference when warm. If it's not closing off, check the electrics (connections and whether it's getting 12 volt power).
Can squeeze the servo pipe flat as well (just as a double check, servos CAN leak, but not common).
When you are sure there is no leak and idle stable, THEN check mixture is OK.
THEN check the pipe connecting regulator to the engine plenum , this is acceleration enrichment (= accel pump for carbs). check it doesn't leak.
If this is not working or disconnected/leaking it can cause hesitation. (take it off and see if there's a vacuum pressure with a finger - engine should speed up [slightly] when pulled off)
THEN perhaps filter is blocked - or one or more injectors a bit dodgy (but injectors tend to cause a rough idle) . Or could be fuel pressure is too low.....
Hope this gives basics in a straightforward manner !!
1. if idle is too high, then air is getting in somewhere. If it's getting in after the metering flap, it will make the mixture weak (as it's not going past the flap). This won't help with hesitation etc.
You should be able to simply squeeze the air hose flat to test the auxiliary air valve, without taking it off. When cold you can easily spot the engine slowing, but it should make hardly any difference when warm. If it's not closing off, check the electrics (connections and whether it's getting 12 volt power).
Can squeeze the servo pipe flat as well (just as a double check, servos CAN leak, but not common).
When you are sure there is no leak and idle stable, THEN check mixture is OK.
THEN check the pipe connecting regulator to the engine plenum , this is acceleration enrichment (= accel pump for carbs). check it doesn't leak.
If this is not working or disconnected/leaking it can cause hesitation. (take it off and see if there's a vacuum pressure with a finger - engine should speed up [slightly] when pulled off)
THEN perhaps filter is blocked - or one or more injectors a bit dodgy (but injectors tend to cause a rough idle) . Or could be fuel pressure is too low.....
Hope this gives basics in a straightforward manner !!
The lack of swirl pot on mine caused a total cut out for a second or two when cornering..The V6 Cologne is sensitive to any cruddy fuel or fuel related issues...I cannot see it being too lean or too weak as it is mechanical fuel injection..(MFI)...the amount of air being drawn in will determine how far the fuel plunger is lifted and how much fuel is supplied....If the post fuel filter in the bulkhead has not been changed for a while then it may be worth doing...just be careful tightening the banjo as its easy to rip the alloy nut on the filter and cause a serious fuel leak!...The scissor method of tightening is highly recommended.
Are your battery leads secure?...if they are loose then they can cause a brief power loss/hesitation...
Are your battery leads secure?...if they are loose then they can cause a brief power loss/hesitation...
From what Dave is saying the high idle is solved. Air leaks through the block are not uncommon. With the engine stopped you should be able to blow down the pipe that goes to the main breather on the rocker cover, and meet a fair amount of resistance, it should be like blowing up a baloon, and when you remove your mouth it should "decompress" back through the pipe.
Hesitation when well hot is a different problem altogether. As posted above plus make sure the water system is not spitting out water at all or it can get a little too hot.
Also re-check the engine temperature sensor when fully hot, and the throttle pot settings.
You can also get effects because the first gulps of air will be very hot from under the bonnet when you start moving again, (You can run an air pipe from somewhere cool to the intake to help here...)
It might just be a matter of waiting until cool air gets back in on the move and enjoying that.
Hesitation when well hot is a different problem altogether. As posted above plus make sure the water system is not spitting out water at all or it can get a little too hot.
Also re-check the engine temperature sensor when fully hot, and the throttle pot settings.
You can also get effects because the first gulps of air will be very hot from under the bonnet when you start moving again, (You can run an air pipe from somewhere cool to the intake to help here...)
It might just be a matter of waiting until cool air gets back in on the move and enjoying that.
Hi all,thanks for all your inputs ,very much appreciated by a newbie wedge owner.Ran to and from work today -total 32 miles.Weather cooler than it has been.No hesitation in straight line driving.1 minor hesitation on a bend in retail park! Just under 1/2 tank of fuel .Will monitor over the next few days -await warm weather ! Changed loose pipe from rocker cover breather to plenum rubber cap -tighter fit and jubilee breather end.Breather loose in rocker cover -seal brittle so will replace -source anyone?wrapped in tape higher up now tight fit.Nipped up various clips and bolts.jubilee clipped pipe from brake vacume servo unit.
Andy - regulator check -sorry check vacume pressure at which end?
Mark - battery leads secure.Will probably fit swirl pot anyway,just my time/cost and change filter.Do you think it's worth fitting pre pump post swirl pot additional filter?
Adam - main breather pipe blown down and decompression heard/felt.sorry didn't quite understand water spitting out? and throttle pot settings? Air pipe too colder source -good idea - at moment there's no pipe so probably just getting warm air from engine bay,also fwd bonnet vent above this area has been blocked ?so could re-open.
Many thanks again -look forward to any replies Dave
Andy - regulator check -sorry check vacume pressure at which end?
Mark - battery leads secure.Will probably fit swirl pot anyway,just my time/cost and change filter.Do you think it's worth fitting pre pump post swirl pot additional filter?
Adam - main breather pipe blown down and decompression heard/felt.sorry didn't quite understand water spitting out? and throttle pot settings? Air pipe too colder source -good idea - at moment there's no pipe so probably just getting warm air from engine bay,also fwd bonnet vent above this area has been blocked ?so could re-open.
Many thanks again -look forward to any replies Dave
Hi all,thanks for all your inputs ,very much appreciated by a newbie wedge owner.Ran to and from work today -total 32 miles.Weather cooler than it has been.No hesitation in straight line driving.1 minor hesitation on a bend in retail park! Just under 1/2 tank of fuel .Will monitor over the next few days -await warm weather ! Changed loose pipe from rocker cover breather to plenum rubber cap -tighter fit and jubilee breather end.Breather loose in rocker cover -seal brittle so will replace -source anyone?wrapped in tape higher up now tight fit.Nipped up various clips and bolts.jubilee clipped pipe from brake vacume servo unit.
Andy - regulator check -sorry check vacume pressure at which end?
Mark - battery leads secure.Will probably fit swirl pot anyway,just my time/cost and change filter.Do you think it's worth fitting pre pump post swirl pot additional filter?
Adam - main breather pipe blown down and decompression heard/felt.sorry didn't quite understand water spitting out? and throttle pot settings? Air pipe too colder source -good idea - at moment there's no pipe so probably just getting warm air from engine bay,also fwd bonnet vent above this area has been blocked ?so could re-open.
Many thanks again -look forward to any replies Dave
Andy - regulator check -sorry check vacume pressure at which end?
Mark - battery leads secure.Will probably fit swirl pot anyway,just my time/cost and change filter.Do you think it's worth fitting pre pump post swirl pot additional filter?
Adam - main breather pipe blown down and decompression heard/felt.sorry didn't quite understand water spitting out? and throttle pot settings? Air pipe too colder source -good idea - at moment there's no pipe so probably just getting warm air from engine bay,also fwd bonnet vent above this area has been blocked ?so could re-open.
Many thanks again -look forward to any replies Dave
Faults like these can be hard to find !!
Swirl pot - Interesting. I could throw my 280 around all over the place and it never hesitated, and all my car had was a simple 'T' piece feed from each tank to the pump.
I did have a partly blocked fuel filter, but it only showed up on motorway/highway when holding full throttle for more than a few secs, and it just went 'flat' - it didn't cough or misfire.
(I got about two tablespoons of sand out of it -I took it to bits to see how bad it was.....)
Other things I have thought of -
Does main flap move freely ? - this controls EVERYTHING. If it sticks ANYWHERE it's problem.
Have you checked the ignition system ? if weights sticking, will retard timing, which can cause all sort of symptoms.
pipes - there should be a pipe connecting the warm up regulator (the rectangular thing at the front of block with 2 fuel pipes to/from the main regulator 'banjo') to the multi plenum adaptor (to servo) to top of regulator. This is a 'heavy throttle enrich' , so that when pedal pushed, vacuum in plenum drops, and mixture gets richened up a little.
Could it even be the ignition coil is weak ? so it's ok on light throttle but not on heavier ??
and you need a gauge to check the fuel pressure properly..... but worth it if everything else fails.
Ford recommendation was to disconnect vac advance on dizzy for unleaded, and plug hole by throttle.
If it's not been tuned, engine is identical to Capri/Granada (air filter box and filter is Granada, NOT Capri).
If I think of anything else....
Swirl pot - Interesting. I could throw my 280 around all over the place and it never hesitated, and all my car had was a simple 'T' piece feed from each tank to the pump.
I did have a partly blocked fuel filter, but it only showed up on motorway/highway when holding full throttle for more than a few secs, and it just went 'flat' - it didn't cough or misfire.
(I got about two tablespoons of sand out of it -I took it to bits to see how bad it was.....)
Other things I have thought of -
Does main flap move freely ? - this controls EVERYTHING. If it sticks ANYWHERE it's problem.
Have you checked the ignition system ? if weights sticking, will retard timing, which can cause all sort of symptoms.
pipes - there should be a pipe connecting the warm up regulator (the rectangular thing at the front of block with 2 fuel pipes to/from the main regulator 'banjo') to the multi plenum adaptor (to servo) to top of regulator. This is a 'heavy throttle enrich' , so that when pedal pushed, vacuum in plenum drops, and mixture gets richened up a little.
Could it even be the ignition coil is weak ? so it's ok on light throttle but not on heavier ??
and you need a gauge to check the fuel pressure properly..... but worth it if everything else fails.
Ford recommendation was to disconnect vac advance on dizzy for unleaded, and plug hole by throttle.
If it's not been tuned, engine is identical to Capri/Granada (air filter box and filter is Granada, NOT Capri).
If I think of anything else....
Edited by RCK974X on Thursday 17th May 01:25
french dave said:
No hesitation in straight line driving.1 minor hesitation on a bend in retail park! Just under 1/2 tank of fuel
This is exactly what used to happen with mine...IIRC it happened more when I was low on fuel...If you are fitting a swirl pot then most have a mesh filter so a pre or post filter may not be needed as far as that is concerned...definitely change the bulkhead filter...
A common place of air leaking is the manifold gasket where the distributor is...(Although you would have rough idle as well)...You can test this by removing the oil filler cap while running...place your palm over the filler neck opening and blip the throttle...if you feel a lot of suction then its definitely leaking....though I doubt it going on what you have said.
Ziga
french dave said:
sorry didn't quite understand water spitting out? and throttle pot settings?
Wht is your coolant header tank like? Do you have an overflow that goes worn the the ground?(Post a pic if possible)
If the pipe goes onto the road then pull it off and put a little pipe into a bottle to catch the overflow, then you'll know if it spits out water (and you can put the coolant back in!)
Throttle pot is set up as per the vintagemodelaeroplane website I'll see if I can find a link later.
french dave said:
Hi all, Mark - I will try your test on the manifold inlet gasket.ive noticed what looks like an oil leak in front of the distributor (thought initially the r/h rocker cover was leaking)and can just about see what looks like a small piece of gasket material protruding??? Dave
Yep ..that sounds like the kiddie...good gaskets and a good sealant on that area...the curved piece of cork is where the distributor sits.... 
french dave said:
hi all,mark tried your test - as soon as cap removed it stalls! hesitation came back in straight line.if i change inlet manifold gasket do i have to remove injectors and change seals before refit? thanks dave
Hi DaveSorry for the late reply....Does it suck your hand to it when you blip the throttle?...I wouldn't jump straight into changing anything until you are sure...Check the PCV valve on the O/S rocker...sometimes they stick and can cause issues as its part of the crank breather...IIRC the distributor and injectors needed removing...but both are relatively simple ...although its easy to get the dizzy 180 degrees out and blow the metering head cap off with a loud bang and a flame....
...
I would establish the cause first....
BEFORE you take the inlet manifold off, check carefully that the oil isn't coming from one of the rocker cover gaskets.
This is a very common source of the oil by the dizzy. The oil sealing of the rocker covers is pretty awful IMHO.
It could even be the dizzy seal itself although it's not a common fault like the rockers..
The inlet gasket does protrude a little at the front and the back of the inlet mfold, as it's the cork bits that actually seal.
There's gaskets between the top plenum box and the runners, which can also be a source of leaks if it's been disturbed, and
if it's not assembled carefully it's a bit too easy to get the alignment wrong...and almost impossible to see.
Oh and make sure you get a 2.8 gasket if you change it. The 2.3 ones look the same, but have subtle differences and tend to leak coolant into the V...
This is a very common source of the oil by the dizzy. The oil sealing of the rocker covers is pretty awful IMHO.
It could even be the dizzy seal itself although it's not a common fault like the rockers..
The inlet gasket does protrude a little at the front and the back of the inlet mfold, as it's the cork bits that actually seal.
There's gaskets between the top plenum box and the runners, which can also be a source of leaks if it's been disturbed, and
if it's not assembled carefully it's a bit too easy to get the alignment wrong...and almost impossible to see.
Oh and make sure you get a 2.8 gasket if you change it. The 2.3 ones look the same, but have subtle differences and tend to leak coolant into the V...
Edited by RCK974X on Sunday 20th May 03:16
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