Front top ball joint information

[trickjohn]

This is the one I brought last month - the holes line up for camber adjustment.



BR Sean

[greymrj]

Hi Sean, as shown on your picture the camber is set for the maximum amount of positive camber, i.e. the bolts are at the outer end of the slot. How far will it slide in on those slots to enable you to adjust the camber towards negative camber? Does anybody out there know where on the slot is the best 'starting point' for camber setting? As the S has a race derived chassis with unequal wishbones then the camber angle should be of some importance. Mine were set at about 30% of the way from max positive to max negative. Anybody know what the optimum road set up is?

[tvrgit]

Aye, but if you had to push the balljoint further into the wishbone to reduce positive camber, would it go?

[trickjohn]

It slides the complete length of the slot, I will set it somewhere in the middle when I get it working and get it tracked at the same place as my MOT, hopefully soon.

BR Sean

[greymrj]

Had a word with my friendly motor factor and he got me the same joint but from different manufacturers. All is now clear! Because, for the SAAB for which these were originally made, the ball joint doesn't slide in then it doesnt matter to SAAB what form the casting takes at the 'pin' end. But is DOES atter to us. 3 joints were all different. What was striking though was that the Quinton Hazell part had the least metal at the pin end and fits easily, whereas the others would need different amounts of filing.
So the moral of the story is; QSJ1004S is the correct part number BUT you need to specify that you want the one made by Quinton Hazell. These pictures compare the QH part, the larger casting on an alternative, and the original.

IMG]http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/greymrj/100_4258.jpg[/IMG]


I'll ask Steve to do a link to this thread from the alternative parts list.

[greymrj]

OK, I'm still learning, has the picture appeared correctly this time?

[darbyp]

If it helps anyone reading this thread, I have recently purchased Delphi top ball joints from Cafco (Camberley Auto Factors).
I did ask for QH but they do not stock them any more, the Delphi ones fit perfectly with no adjustments required.
They are about £12 each + VAT.

[greymrj]

Hi Paul, thanks for that. I did see something interesting in your picture, may mean there is a slight difference on the late cars; your pic of your original ball joint shows what appears to be steel strip spacers either side of the ball joint, and the pic of the new ball joint shows space either side. If that is correct then it is likely that most if not all the 'aftermarket' ball joints would work on a later car because there is greater clearance. On the earlier cars the ball joint is a tight fit and getting the correct casting shape on the new ball joint would be more critical.

[clarenceboddiger]

[quote=The hub carrier appears to be standard Sierra. Instead of the Macpherson strut which normally fits into the top of the Sierra unit, there is a small special TVR part (the domed bit marked B on my photo) which has the tapered hole for the SAAB ball joint (marked A on my photo). (17.5mm core). The two bolts mount the ball joint into the top wishbone, which has slotted holes for these bolts to provide some camber adjustment.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/greymrj/1...
[/quote]
Does that mean that part "B" on your photo is removable and can be transferred to a new hub?? If not, are they available to buy anywhere?.

[merky300]

I have just stripped my front suspension down for a bit of a refurb and paint: -

1. My top ball joint has a thin spacer down each side and there does seem to be a reasonable amount of clearance for adjusting the joint in and out. It's a 1990 S3.
2. Part "B" in the photo is removable, it's held in place by one bolt which goes through the casting at the back.

Tony

[greymrj]

Hi Tony, so it does look as if the later cars do have a slightly wider housing for the top ball joint so they wont face quite the same fitting problem as the owners of older cars.
Ken, I can confirm what Tony says that the special TVR part (B on my pic) is removable once the big bolt is out but was very difficult on mine. There is no reason to remove it under a normal rebuild, unless it has become damaged somehow. I am not proposing to take the one adrift on the other side of mine. It is a special TVR part, no idea if it is obtainable.

[GreenV8S]

Taking the top balljoint adapter off the upright makes it a lot easier to get at the ball joint so you can drift it out. That's not the only way to do it, but it works for me.

[darbyp]

Hi Greymrj, when I took the picture the spacers were still on the old joint (as seen in the first picture), I placed it into the wishbone just for the picture to be taken and posted.
The spacers have now been cleaned, rubbed-down, and re-painted and fit into the wishbone on the sides of the new joint.
The wishbones are off of my S3C if it helps

[clarenceboddiger]

I was asking re Part "B" as I picked up 2 new hubs very cheap and want to use them in the next couple of years when I do a full rebuild of the car.I suppose they wouldn't be too hard to machine if they were obsolete, just the taper would be a bit tricky

[GreenV8S]

clarenceboddiger said:

I was asking re Part "B" as I picked up 2 new hubs very cheap and want to use them in the next couple of years when I do a full rebuild of the car.

They're just lumps of metal, why would you want to replace them?

[greymrj]

Hi Ken, I suspect they would be quite expensive to make as I think they will have been heat treated as well as requiring a precise taper. I tend to agree with Peter, unless the item gets damaged (which is pretty unlikely I would have thought) I would have expected to leave it in and replace the bearings (Sierra)in the existing hub, or transfer the item to your new hubs.

[clarenceboddiger]

GreenV8S said:

clarenceboddiger said:

I was asking re Part "B" as I picked up 2 new hubs very cheap and want to use them in the next couple of years when I do a full rebuild of the car.

They're just lumps of metal, why would you want to replace them?

I picked the complete hubs up for about the same cost as the bearings would have been on their own so at the time it seemed a bargain, I didn't realise about the top fitting.I can always get the bearings out and use them if it presents any problems at the time, it just seemed easier to change the "B" part if it was easy.

Edited by clarenceboddiger on Monday 24th March 12:55

[greymrj]

Just to let you know that there is now a link to this thread from the Alternative Parts List. Thanks Steve.

[GreenV8S]

clarenceboddiger said:

I picked the complete hubs up for about the same cost as the bearings would have been on their own so at the time it seemed a bargain, I didn't realise about the top fitting.I can always get the bearings out and use them if it presents any problems at the time, it just seemed easier to change the "B" part if it was easy.

That's reasonable, but you just need to transfer the adapter from the old uprights to the new ones which is very easy to do, you don't need to source new adapters.

[greymrj]

Just to add slightly to what greenV8S said about removing the joint; it isn't easy to get the joint out. You will need a 19mm deep socket to get at the nut.
Thanks guys, I think that about 'bottoms' this subject and it is all linked to the parts list now so anybody who hasn't tackled the job yet should get all the info they need.