AVO/Springs question
Discussion
Hi guys and Happy New Year from New Zealand.
We are in the middle of a body off to replace the usual rotten outriggers on my S3 and I have a AVO/spring question. (body off pic's will come soon..!)
Maybe Phillpot-Mike can answer this as I see he has AVO shocks from David Gerald as well.
We have just removed the shock sets for body painting and find that the bushes are all badly distorted and worn....problem is, they are brand new, fitted by the former keeper and have travelled less than 200 miles.!
They have come from David Gerald , who I see in other threads fit their own springs.
The AVO's were correct with 718's on the front and 719's on the back.....but, the front set have the larger diameter springs and we think maybe that these should have been fitted to the rear shocks?!!
My concern is, if we just replace the bushes, they will wear again in no time.
Phillpot-Mike you have the same set up, do you have the larger diameter on the front or rear..?
The picture below shows the removed rear ones with silver top caps on the left and the small diameter black top cap ones which came off the front on the right.
Thanks.
We are in the middle of a body off to replace the usual rotten outriggers on my S3 and I have a AVO/spring question. (body off pic's will come soon..!)
Maybe Phillpot-Mike can answer this as I see he has AVO shocks from David Gerald as well.
We have just removed the shock sets for body painting and find that the bushes are all badly distorted and worn....problem is, they are brand new, fitted by the former keeper and have travelled less than 200 miles.!
They have come from David Gerald , who I see in other threads fit their own springs.
The AVO's were correct with 718's on the front and 719's on the back.....but, the front set have the larger diameter springs and we think maybe that these should have been fitted to the rear shocks?!!
My concern is, if we just replace the bushes, they will wear again in no time.
Phillpot-Mike you have the same set up, do you have the larger diameter on the front or rear..?
The picture below shows the removed rear ones with silver top caps on the left and the small diameter black top cap ones which came off the front on the right.
Thanks.
My bushes also failed after low mileage - AVO just supplied some more free of charge.
There is a ridge inside the shock which someone said to me damages the bush - I haven't examined it in detail but if it is feasible I was going to try smoothing it out with a dremel or something.
When I spoke to the AVO also said the geometry isn't very accurate on the S which contributes to the bush problems - I have no idea if this is true or not.
Its worth giving AVO a call - whatever some people might have against them their customer service has been great when I've dealt with them.
Soak the bushes in hot water before fitting otherwise they are a right pig to get in the shock.
There is a ridge inside the shock which someone said to me damages the bush - I haven't examined it in detail but if it is feasible I was going to try smoothing it out with a dremel or something.
When I spoke to the AVO also said the geometry isn't very accurate on the S which contributes to the bush problems - I have no idea if this is true or not.
Its worth giving AVO a call - whatever some people might have against them their customer service has been great when I've dealt with them.
Soak the bushes in hot water before fitting otherwise they are a right pig to get in the shock.
Well I've braved the cold and snow and, yes, its definately larger diameter springs on rear.
regards the bushes the free replacements looked virtually as bad when I checked some time ago.
Did pick up some "metalastic" type bushes at an Autojumble but have concerns about fitting them as the "eye" on each end of the shock is quite narrow (and alluminium ? ) and I fear any twisting force may damage it. Eye on old Koni's is steel and nearly as wide as gap between mounting brackets on chassis.
next plan was to use spherical joints or "rose" joints as I believe they are often called but was struggling to find correct size (at a fair price) so at the moment its all on the back burner till Spring. Man at AVO did mention spherical joints used on their race shocks I think but at the time didn't really want to go that route so didn't ask price or if they'll fit these particular shocks.
regards the bushes the free replacements looked virtually as bad when I checked some time ago.
Did pick up some "metalastic" type bushes at an Autojumble but have concerns about fitting them as the "eye" on each end of the shock is quite narrow (and alluminium ? ) and I fear any twisting force may damage it. Eye on old Koni's is steel and nearly as wide as gap between mounting brackets on chassis.
next plan was to use spherical joints or "rose" joints as I believe they are often called but was struggling to find correct size (at a fair price) so at the moment its all on the back burner till Spring. Man at AVO did mention spherical joints used on their race shocks I think but at the time didn't really want to go that route so didn't ask price or if they'll fit these particular shocks.
I think we need to work out a solution to this - those bushes look identical to how mine looked when I took them off - and I've only done 1500 miles or so on the shocks so there is clearly a problem.
AVO were adamant its because 'it's a TVR' but I suspect it may be because it needs a spherical joint not a bush & tube arrangement. If there is a spherical joint solution it looks like a good plan.
AVO were adamant its because 'it's a TVR' but I suspect it may be because it needs a spherical joint not a bush & tube arrangement. If there is a spherical joint solution it looks like a good plan.
Thanks Mike, Chris and Norman.
I have emailed Neil at AVO over the weekend to see what he says.
Mike has confirmed that my springs are on the correct front and rear shocks.....so its all down to the bushes.
I agree with all your comments, AVO appear to be the only (?) current supplier using this style of bush, while everyone else is on the rigid spherical type that take up most of the bracket...therefore reducing movement /play wear etc.
I will take mine into a specialst shock shop over the next couple of days and report back with what replacements or options they have.
I suspect that other owners will find the same result if they check their bushes as well.
Brendon
I have emailed Neil at AVO over the weekend to see what he says.
Mike has confirmed that my springs are on the correct front and rear shocks.....so its all down to the bushes.
I agree with all your comments, AVO appear to be the only (?) current supplier using this style of bush, while everyone else is on the rigid spherical type that take up most of the bracket...therefore reducing movement /play wear etc.
I will take mine into a specialst shock shop over the next couple of days and report back with what replacements or options they have.
I suspect that other owners will find the same result if they check their bushes as well.
Brendon
most AVO shock eyelets (part that takes the bush) will also take their spherical joints too if youd prefer, sure AVO will confim each model of shock on respective Tivs if you ask nicely.
Id have to agree to a certain extent re the shock positioning geometry, its not ideal as they said, but unlikley to be much better/worse than half the cars out there. The rears for instance are heavily inclined to the travel path, so the loads arent just in the one direction. Also has a 'falling' damping/springing rate designed in which isnt ideal (common on semi trailing cars to be fair).
Sphericals ought to be liberally greased to insure dirt/water doesnt get in there. In fact plaster them in grease so that any sh*t sticks to the outside of the grease and cant make its way into the joint.
They will increase the NVH transmitted into the chassis compared to polys, but as my S isnt a maybach-type ride and quietness in the cabin anyway, i doubt anyone would feel/hear it over the din the exhaust makes!
Id have to agree to a certain extent re the shock positioning geometry, its not ideal as they said, but unlikley to be much better/worse than half the cars out there. The rears for instance are heavily inclined to the travel path, so the loads arent just in the one direction. Also has a 'falling' damping/springing rate designed in which isnt ideal (common on semi trailing cars to be fair).
Sphericals ought to be liberally greased to insure dirt/water doesnt get in there. In fact plaster them in grease so that any sh*t sticks to the outside of the grease and cant make its way into the joint.
They will increase the NVH transmitted into the chassis compared to polys, but as my S isnt a maybach-type ride and quietness in the cabin anyway, i doubt anyone would feel/hear it over the din the exhaust makes!
Edited by CNHSS1 on Tuesday 12th January 11:30
Been back in touch with Nigel at AVO,
Providing shock has two small grooves machined inside the mounting eye they will accept spherical bearings (grooves are for locating circlips) £10 per bearing = £20 per shock, I couldn't find anything anywhere near that price when I looked around.
Just been out and slipped one of mine off to have a look and I've got the grooves. Will order tomorrow and fit over the weekend providing they arrive in time, let you know how I get on.
Providing shock has two small grooves machined inside the mounting eye they will accept spherical bearings (grooves are for locating circlips) £10 per bearing = £20 per shock, I couldn't find anything anywhere near that price when I looked around.
Just been out and slipped one of mine off to have a look and I've got the grooves. Will order tomorrow and fit over the weekend providing they arrive in time, let you know how I get on.
Well its not nice and warm over here but at least the snow has gone so I've ventured out and fitted my Spherical Joints ! All went together a treat but would strongly suggest to anyone who thinks they may have a problem to sort it sooner than later because eventually the mounting eye on the shock will get damaged = scrap shock !!
This is what you need for each shocker
This is what its replacing
Before
And after, one on left shows retaining circlips one on right has been packed with silicone grease
This is what you need for each shocker
This is what its replacing
Before
And after, one on left shows retaining circlips one on right has been packed with silicone grease
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