Anyone else concerned about ULEZ
Discussion
Mark300zx said:
How do you know they are on short trips?
I just know :-)But as an example I have neighbours on one side, two of whom (mother and daughter) work at a sports centre a mile away. They can each make two or three trips a day back and forth in separate (diesel) cars.
There are tons of people all over the couunty who can't be arsed walking a few hundred yards let alone a mile.
Get them out of diesels is my suggestion.
Especially in cities.
Not rocket science.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tfl-chie...
I think ulez will be Khan's f'up during his tenure, but he probably should be working on stopping London being the murder and mugging capital of Europe, which has happened under his watch
I think ulez will be Khan's f'up during his tenure, but he probably should be working on stopping London being the murder and mugging capital of Europe, which has happened under his watch
Younez said:
Had a look on my road today and if the ulez was extended all but 2 cars on my would have to be replaced.lol
At a guess I'd say at least 50% of the cars on the school run would fail. Maybe more. All doing the one mile journey there and back twice a day.....It all adds up pretty quickly........
AC43 said:
Younez said:
Had a look on my road today and if the ulez was extended all but 2 cars on my would have to be replaced.lol
At a guess I'd say at least 50% of the cars on the school run would fail. Maybe more. All doing the one mile journey there and back twice a day.....It all adds up pretty quickly........
In the morning, they take the kid to school then drive to their part-time work or drive to Tesco/whatever then home.
In the afternoon, they might drive to Tesco if they didn't earlier or straight from their PT work, pick up the kid (maybe pick up another kid from a different school), then take one or more kids to an after-school club or private tuition.
Yes, some do just go to and from school and home, but not everyone lives exactly the same lives as you or I. And I have no idea how you live your life.
We live in zone 3 and both parents work - sometimes I drop off or pick up and have to use the car to make the timings work even though the school is 'just' 0.7 miles away. The idea of people living in this area all having a single full time working parent and a part time/non working parent is slightly archaic if I am honest - the world has moved on especially in places like London where cost of living is exceptionally high.
Its a money making scheme, make no bones about it, it has nothing to do with pollution. As mentioned previously the government is pushing through runway 3 at Heathrow which will cause catastrophic levels of pollution in an already over polluted area (the area around Heathrow already exceeds EU safety limits) by increasing aircraft pollution as well as the additional road traffic created by the increase in passengers in an area affecting 2m+ people.
We are living with a government with the least amount of soul and conscience for a generation.
Money Money Money, its so funny...
Its a money making scheme, make no bones about it, it has nothing to do with pollution. As mentioned previously the government is pushing through runway 3 at Heathrow which will cause catastrophic levels of pollution in an already over polluted area (the area around Heathrow already exceeds EU safety limits) by increasing aircraft pollution as well as the additional road traffic created by the increase in passengers in an area affecting 2m+ people.
We are living with a government with the least amount of soul and conscience for a generation.
Money Money Money, its so funny...
Hoofy said:
AC43 said:
Younez said:
Had a look on my road today and if the ulez was extended all but 2 cars on my would have to be replaced.lol
At a guess I'd say at least 50% of the cars on the school run would fail. Maybe more. All doing the one mile journey there and back twice a day.....It all adds up pretty quickly........
In the morning, they take the kid to school then drive to their part-time work or drive to Tesco/whatever then home.
In the afternoon, they might drive to Tesco if they didn't earlier or straight from their PT work, pick up the kid (maybe pick up another kid from a different school), then take one or more kids to an after-school club or private tuition.
Yes, some do just go to and from school and home, but not everyone lives exactly the same lives as you or I. And I have no idea how you live your life.
My wife's car has two main purposes in life. One is to go to school and back. The other is to go to the supermarket and back. Over the years it's averaged a massive 2,000 miles a year. In some years it's done less that 1,000.
This is very typical use case for a city car and it's best served by one of the non-diesel options. If you have to go ICE then petrol is the only sensible choice for this kind of use.
AC43 said:
Living in Zone 2 London very few people use their cars to commute. It's pointless. It takes forever and there's no parking when you get to your destination. The vast majority of people I know take the tube or cycle in in the work in the centre. Or walk if they work locally.
My wife's car has two main purposes in life. One is to go to school and back. The other is to go to the supermarket and back. Over the years it's averaged a massive 2,000 miles a year. In some years it's done less that 1,000.
This is very typical use case for a city car and it's best served by one of the non-diesel options. If you have to go ICE then petrol is the only sensible choice for this kind of use.
It does vary though, and varies according to lifestyle, what you do for work, what you do for fun, where family live etc. We are in zone 3/2 and my wifes car puts about 12k miles a year on it due to school runs, shopping, work (she works a bit further out not further in and would require 3 buses instead of a 20 minute drive) and her family are based on the south coast so visits regularly by car (often we see weekend closures on main line routes so public transport cannot be relied on to get there). Other car owners on our road are always out in the cars also putting on a lot of miles.My wife's car has two main purposes in life. One is to go to school and back. The other is to go to the supermarket and back. Over the years it's averaged a massive 2,000 miles a year. In some years it's done less that 1,000.
This is very typical use case for a city car and it's best served by one of the non-diesel options. If you have to go ICE then petrol is the only sensible choice for this kind of use.
coldel said:
AC43 said:
Living in Zone 2 London very few people use their cars to commute. It's pointless. It takes forever and there's no parking when you get to your destination. The vast majority of people I know take the tube or cycle in in the work in the centre. Or walk if they work locally.
My wife's car has two main purposes in life. One is to go to school and back. The other is to go to the supermarket and back. Over the years it's averaged a massive 2,000 miles a year. In some years it's done less that 1,000.
This is very typical use case for a city car and it's best served by one of the non-diesel options. If you have to go ICE then petrol is the only sensible choice for this kind of use.
It does vary though, and varies according to lifestyle, what you do for work, what you do for fun, where family live etc. We are in zone 3/2 and my wifes car puts about 12k miles a year on it due to school runs, shopping, work (she works a bit further out not further in and would require 3 buses instead of a 20 minute drive) and her family are based on the south coast so visits regularly by car (often we see weekend closures on main line routes so public transport cannot be relied on to get there). Other car owners on our road are always out in the cars also putting on a lot of miles.My wife's car has two main purposes in life. One is to go to school and back. The other is to go to the supermarket and back. Over the years it's averaged a massive 2,000 miles a year. In some years it's done less that 1,000.
This is very typical use case for a city car and it's best served by one of the non-diesel options. If you have to go ICE then petrol is the only sensible choice for this kind of use.
When I was replacing my last E Class I did actually start looking at diesels as 90% of the miles it does are out of town. But when I looked at ULEZ and the implication for diesels I very quickly changed my mind. And then reading about how nasty the pollutants are from them I'm glad that I don't have one as inevitably it would also get pressed into service for short hops such as ferrying kids around, dump runs, house moves, garden centre trips and so on.
But because of the financial incentives over the last few years I am surrounded by families with two or more cars ALL of which are diesel and many of which are used solely for short urban trips.
It's the latter that's just wrong.
I think there may be some distractions with anecdotal accounts of potential causes, the reality is personal cars are not the overriding cause of failing pollution targets, it is lorries and buses.
Yet TFL chooses to distract you because they can't afford to convert buses to hit pollution quotas, so they will raise taxes by charging an unfair tax and pointing their finger unjustly at the car owner!
Yet TFL chooses to distract you because they can't afford to convert buses to hit pollution quotas, so they will raise taxes by charging an unfair tax and pointing their finger unjustly at the car owner!
Mark300zx said:
I think there may be some distractions with anecdotal accounts of potential causes, the reality is personal cars are not the overriding cause of failing pollution targets, it is lorries and buses.
Yet TFL chooses to distract you because they can't afford to convert buses to hit pollution quotas, so they will raise taxes by charging an unfair tax and pointing their finger unjustly at the car owner!
TFL may well have an issue with buses but I can state categorically that's it's the diesel CARS noise to tail outside my front door every morning that stink the place out. And when I cycle the nine miles to work in the City there are loads of diesel CARS on those roads that stink too.Yet TFL chooses to distract you because they can't afford to convert buses to hit pollution quotas, so they will raise taxes by charging an unfair tax and pointing their finger unjustly at the car owner!
20 years ago virtually none of the private cars on London's roads were diesel. 10 years ago they were being bought by Londoners in their tens of thousands.
The Euro 6's are obviously a lot better but anything Euro 5 or before is chucking loads of unneccessary crap out and there are thousands and thousands of them out there. And don't start me on the muppets who take the DPF off and diasble the EGR........
Anyway, if the incoming legislation get half of those cars replaced by Euro 5/6 petrols (or hybrids/EV's) then the air quality will dramtically improve. And as someone who breathes it in every day that's a very good thing.
Mark300zx said:
I am guessing you are not worried about the anecdotal part.
Have any bus routes go past your door/area?
What zone do you live in?
You call it anectodal, I call it living in London for 30 years and seeing a recent explosion of diesel cars. I can detect their dieselness with (a) my ears and (b) my nose. Sometimes, if I'm cycling behind a particularly nasty one, (c) my mouth.Have any bus routes go past your door/area?
What zone do you live in?
I know that buses and clattery taxis chuck out soot too. They always have done so there is really no surprise there.
I'm just looking forward to the day when there are fewer diesel cars, particularly the older ones.
I live in zone 2 and am in a temporary rental. There's a fairly modern bus that goes past but seems OK. When I'm back in my own home I'm in a cul de sac. So no buses but loads of diesel cars. Doing short journeys. Like so many London cars do.
Anyway, I'm obviously imagining it.
AC43 said:
You call it anectodal, I call it living in London for 30 years and seeing a recent explosion of diesel cars. I can detect their dieselness with (a) my ears and (b) my nose. Sometimes, if I'm cycling behind a particularly nasty one, (c) my mouth.
I know that buses and clattery taxis chuck out soot too. They always have done so there is really no surprise there.
I'm just looking forward to the day when there are fewer diesel cars, particularly the older ones.
I live in zone 2 and am in a temporary rental. There's a fairly modern bus that goes past but seems OK. When I'm back in my own home I'm in a cul de sac. So no buses but loads of diesel cars. Doing short journeys. Like so many London cars do.
Anyway, I'm obviously imagining it.
Gonna have to top you, lived in London for fifty years, still anecdotal btw!I know that buses and clattery taxis chuck out soot too. They always have done so there is really no surprise there.
I'm just looking forward to the day when there are fewer diesel cars, particularly the older ones.
I live in zone 2 and am in a temporary rental. There's a fairly modern bus that goes past but seems OK. When I'm back in my own home I'm in a cul de sac. So no buses but loads of diesel cars. Doing short journeys. Like so many London cars do.
Anyway, I'm obviously imagining it.
A bus that seems ok, still anecdotal!
Not really getting the point, it is that buses and large vehicles are the main culprits, remove your cars and the pollution will still be there!
If you live inside the Circular Road good, if on the borders there will be increasing the traffic as people skirt the outside avoiding the costs of the zone, increasing congestion and pollution, but it's ok as you will be fine
Mark300zx said:
AC43 said:
You call it anectodal, I call it living in London for 30 years and seeing a recent explosion of diesel cars. I can detect their dieselness with (a) my ears and (b) my nose. Sometimes, if I'm cycling behind a particularly nasty one, (c) my mouth.
I know that buses and clattery taxis chuck out soot too. They always have done so there is really no surprise there.
I'm just looking forward to the day when there are fewer diesel cars, particularly the older ones.
I live in zone 2 and am in a temporary rental. There's a fairly modern bus that goes past but seems OK. When I'm back in my own home I'm in a cul de sac. So no buses but loads of diesel cars. Doing short journeys. Like so many London cars do.
Anyway, I'm obviously imagining it.
Gonna have to top you, lived in London for fifty years, still anecdotal btw!I know that buses and clattery taxis chuck out soot too. They always have done so there is really no surprise there.
I'm just looking forward to the day when there are fewer diesel cars, particularly the older ones.
I live in zone 2 and am in a temporary rental. There's a fairly modern bus that goes past but seems OK. When I'm back in my own home I'm in a cul de sac. So no buses but loads of diesel cars. Doing short journeys. Like so many London cars do.
Anyway, I'm obviously imagining it.
A bus that seems ok, still anecdotal!
Not really getting the point, it is that buses and large vehicles are the main culprits, remove your cars and the pollution will still be there!
If you live inside the Circular Road good, if on the borders there will be increasing the traffic as people skirt the outside avoiding the costs of the zone, increasing congestion and pollution, but it's ok as you will be fine
My main point is that the rapid increase in the use of diesel private cars can only have made the problem worse and that reversing the tide can surely only be a good thing in that respect.
Yes this is anecdotal as I don't have the overall figures and presume that you are right to say that there are worse culprits. I still think it's a good thing to tackle pre-euro 6 diesel cars. (And black cabs, buses, vans and trucks of course).
FWIW I'm inside the North Circular. Hadn't thought of the effect round the edge but I've lived both inside and outside the CC zone and have survived to tell the tale.
Very pleased this has had the go ahead.
I live in zone 3 SE London and it will be a happy day when the scrot gangbangers are priced off the road and they can’t blare out gangster rap and irritate everyone else.
It will also be nice to have fewer cars on the road. There isn’t a big problem with Uber drivers this far out and it’s mostly local traffic.
I live in zone 3 SE London and it will be a happy day when the scrot gangbangers are priced off the road and they can’t blare out gangster rap and irritate everyone else.
It will also be nice to have fewer cars on the road. There isn’t a big problem with Uber drivers this far out and it’s mostly local traffic.
So we all just sell our ten year old diesels to people up north or overseas that don't have a ULEZ and bugger up their cities instead.
I wouldn't mind so much but when I go to places like Paris and Brussels they are way more smoggy than London is, you can almost taste it in the air there. So not sure why Mayor Khan't and his TFL cronies are going so mad about it here, nice little earner I suppose.
I wouldn't mind so much but when I go to places like Paris and Brussels they are way more smoggy than London is, you can almost taste it in the air there. So not sure why Mayor Khan't and his TFL cronies are going so mad about it here, nice little earner I suppose.
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