quattro engine and driveline rebuild

quattro engine and driveline rebuild

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Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Friday 15th October 2010
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As some of you folk know, the Black Audi Ur quattro’s having a little bit of work done on it at the moment, it started off as a bottom end re-shell and has grown into a rebuild. There is basically a block being mated with our head, everything is being replaced or refurbished, radiators, pipes, hoses, bolts, gaskets… The lot.

This is a post up of various updates on other forums, but you'll get the idea...



Old motor being stripped down for removal


New motor bottom end built up with new auxiliaries.




Electro-plated (refurbished) bolts all round.


Quick thanks to John Mitchell who’s doing the build and to Pete Reeve (quattrocorner).

Next post

John’s been cracking on at a right old pace, the engine is long since out,



so is the gearbox



And how is this, the only thing that’s broken is the plastic clip for the differential actuation bar… So, no sheared head bolts, broken studs, rounded nuts or other miscellaneous nightmares… Stunning when you consider the engine has been there since 1985. Anyway, whilst we’re there, and the gearbox is off, we’re renewing the Clutch Slave cylinder and flexible pipe, together with a new propshaft bearing.

Under the car…



Is in (dare I say it for sounding a bit smug) brilliant condition. So no worries there.

The new engine is pretty much together on the stand now…







The engine looks lovely. We’ve not gone ‘concours’, but just tidy, protected (painted etc) and original.

John also wheeled out one of his other engines…

A 350bhp Corrado G60 lump…


Finally, we brought home the old WR lump,



which only really ran out No3 big end, so, will only need a regrind, reshell, maybe a new rod for No3 and a balance. I’ll oil it up and store it away, unless someone else needs it for £100.00.

Big thanks to John and to Pete Reeve at quattrocorner again...

Rad now looks like this



Engine like this



Prop bearing done, engine and gearbox dressed, engine bay cleaned and tidied. Next job is engine mated back with the box and hopefully in tomorrow, then it's plumbing, wiring and drivetrain.

Dash is also back from Pete Knight...:tup:

All going very well at the moment.

Unboxed the repaired WR Dash...

Whoo-Hoo... Starting to get excited now... Soon be motoring again...



Few more pictures today,



Gearbox is now reconnected to the engine...





Together they are just enormous... Unbelievably heavy and awkward.

Engine bay is getting a bit of a tidy-up too...



John's also worked his way back, and is replacing fuel lines, filters and canister whilst it's all apart.

It'll be a new car (mechanically) when it's done...

And...

The latest picture, hot off the press, taken less than 10 minutes ago... (13.40)



:nod:

Awesome.

Right, looks like we’re going for a Monday afternoon start-up….

Lovely, can’t wait…


Edited by Isimmo on Friday 15th October 21:02

minimatt1967

17,089 posts

205 months

Friday 15th October 2010
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You have been busy, nice work thumbup

exigepete

1,005 posts

202 months

Friday 15th October 2010
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Classic old skool! Lovely!

NWVT

2,630 posts

183 months

Saturday 16th October 2010
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EPIC and gorgeus smile

jonboy21t

200 posts

182 months

Monday 18th October 2010
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Looking good - always good to see a classic being "spruced up"....by the way, was the Quattro fitted with a T3 turbo or smaller/larger......

Good luck with the first start-up/test drive - she'll be fine...just do forget to check the turbo oil feed pipes....i talk from recent experience......

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
jonboy21t said:
Looking good - always good to see a classic being "spruced up"....by the way, was the Quattro fitted with a T3 turbo or smaller/larger......

Good luck with the first start-up/test drive - she'll be fine...just do forget to check the turbo oil feed pipes....i talk from recent experience......
The old girls' were fitted with KKK26K's, later quattros came with the smaller KKK24K's So it's all old school, no boost, big bang stuff.

We've bought brand new oil cooler pipes (all £170+vat's worth - you might just be able to see them in one of the pictures) even though the old one's were 'okay'... As you say though, it's a potential nightmare scenario, I've seen two quattros killed by failed oil cooler pipes, it takes about 5 seconds at motorway speeds to irreparably knacker the big end bearings. If you're lucky, if your unlucky it gets the oil alight on the turbo, which is just behind the oil cooler.

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 18th October 2010
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PS - Thanks folk for the kind words, I'll keep you updated as this week progresses.

VBR
Ian

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
Been a classic 'Welcome to the world of Audi' day today, the box of bits needed to screw the car together have seen several parts not quite matching the part number ordered, so, bless, they are trying again...ranting...rolleyes

Should have the 'epic fail' sorted tomorrow morning, so we're looking at, fingers crossed, tomorrow...

mgbond

6,749 posts

231 months

Monday 18th October 2010
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Would it not of been worth reconditioning the turbo while it was out? Also (don't know what they are like) would it not have been a good idea to recon the gearbox?

Bondy

P.S. Going through a complete engine, gearbox, clutch rebuild/upgrade at the mo. Can't wait to be at your point smile. unfortunately I have to wait 6wks for the new pistons frown

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
mgbond said:
Would it not of been worth reconditioning the turbo while it was out? Also (don't know what they are like) would it not have been a good idea to recon the gearbox?

Bondy

P.S. Going through a complete engine, gearbox, clutch rebuild/upgrade at the mo. Can't wait to be at your point smile. unfortunately I have to wait 6wks for the new pistons frown
The 'box on the WR's is probably the strongest box Audi ever made fortunately, and should be good for a long while yet, the turbo is a good question though... And a bit of a gamble, it's probably the original, and unknown really on age... We've owned the car 15yrs and it's been in there throughout... But, prior to rebuild it was making the full boost and there is no end play or blade damage or imbalance... So yep, you're right, in a perfect world I'd be in for a new turbo, but.... The original isn't showing undue signs of degradation... So... And this is always the problem with this kind of re-engineering... hopefully it'll be okay... Like the 'box, and the 50k clutch, and the re-con'd rads, and the rebuilt block, and the new oil pump, and, worst of all, me...the big nut behind the wheel...

mgbond

6,749 posts

231 months

Tuesday 19th October 2010
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Isimmo said:
...the big nut behind the wheel...
Ha ha, its when that nut gets loose is when they break smile

You wouldn't have needed a new turbo just a refurb with better bearings for longevity. I think my recon turbos had 360 bearings and stronger actuators fitted, (wasn't cheap though).

Bondy

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Tuesday 19th October 2010
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Oh deep joy...

Brand new Audi supplied oil pump, leaks like a sieve and makes poor oil pressure... Brand new, Audi supplied water pump, pumps water... Sounds like an air-raid siren... A few well placed 'F()cks' are being worked into the right places at the moment... Getting them out and back in again is at best a major job...

Being Audi Dealer supplied parts they are subject to a warranty, which includes labour, but this requires (normally) the car to have the warranty work completed at a main dealer... Clearly, they can take a fookin massive running jump with that, it's not going to get a new pumpset fitted by Arthur J Scrote, ChimpTec 2010... So the (normally) bit above is going to become one of the exceptions...

The start up...



...you can hear the pumps above the noise of the engine... And you can see John frantically pumping the coolant as he realises there's cavitation.

John was so worried the oil pump had not worked hard enough, he dropped the subframe and sump and checked 'Mains' and 'Shells'... All were thankfully fine....

We now await replacement parts from said supplier...

Edited by Isimmo on Tuesday 19th October 20:54

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 25th October 2010
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Bit more today. (this is a bit confusing with so many engines, but... basically, we're pulling out the engine above^)

The cars original WR engine is ready to go off for a rebore now, together with the KG crank.



We'll match 5 conrods from the box of bits...



The block is to be bored out to 80.5, which requires oversized pistons...

These are brand new Mahle 80.475 oversized WR pistons.


The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch.

Then we'll try again...

RallyRep stud conversion due back this week too.

mgbond

6,749 posts

231 months

Monday 25th October 2010
quotequote all
Isimmo said:
...The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch..
I will be getting all mine balanced also but I was told they need pistons/Rods/1 bearing set, crank, front pulley and fly wheel (going to get this lightened also). No mention of giving them the clutch though other than the release plate or is that what you mean?

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 25th October 2010
quotequote all
mgbond said:
Isimmo said:
...The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch..
I will be getting all mine balanced also but I was told they need pistons/Rods/1 bearing set, crank, front pulley and fly wheel (going to get this lightened also). No mention of giving them the clutch though other than the release plate or is that what you mean?
The company doing ours said that although the clutch is a service item, it might as well be included in the balancing as they'll probably have to live together for 80odd thousand miles. (and at 3k a year, that'd be good for 26years)... So the whole clutch is going. We're not getting the flywheel lightened on this engine, but the Rally Car's one will be.

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Monday 25th October 2010
quotequote all
Incidentally Martin, be interesting to see your Noble Engine build in time, are you going with higher performance pistons/altering the compression/specifications?

VBR
Ian

mgbond

6,749 posts

231 months

Monday 25th October 2010
quotequote all
Isimmo said:
Incidentally Martin, be interesting to see your Noble Engine build in time, are you going with higher performance pistons/altering the compression/specifications?

VBR
Ian
Not altering the compression. If it was the 3ltr then yes i would as all the work sorting the pistons out has been done. The 2.5 never had anyone sort it so only a copy of the original ones (forged) was done.

I went a little different and went to Arias Pistons. They had my orginal but they are adding accumulator groves and anti det groves, also skirts are being hardened and the crown is being ceramic coated. Along with that I have uprated main bearings and big ends, also all bolts are ARP and uprated valve springs. Alreay have the free flowing exhaust and both turbos have been rebuilt with 360deg bearling and stronger actuators. Clutch is now rated to 500ftlb and box has been polished/shot peened and plastic (yes plastic) bearings replaced with metal ones. Also the boxes has been machined for cooling ways. Wont fit box cooler to the car until next year as its only needed on track and I will never go that mad anyway.

Looking for just over 400bhp and 400ftlb. It was 372 when it went bag (long story) at 1bar. want to try and keep it at 1 bar but pistons are being speced for 1.2.

Can't wait smile

Who is doing your balancing, I found a place in walton on thames, peanut somthing?

Bondy

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Wednesday 27th October 2010
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mgbond said:
Who is doing your balancing, I found a place in walton on thames, peanut somthing?

Bondy
Ours is off to Hertfordshire...

http://www.JNLRacing.com

Isimmo

Original Poster:

1,227 posts

170 months

Thursday 18th November 2010
quotequote all
Turning into a bit of an epic this... The engine rebuild is going into the realms of 'seriously specialist' (read fookin expensive), with the block being bored, honed and repistoned with Mahle oversized, new crank, rods etc,etc... Well, the old girls motor is due back hopefully tomorrow or early next week. So the ur's replacement block will come out in the next day or so and the original lump will go back in... this'll leave me with the Original lump in the car, after a full rebuild, and two dismantled 10vT 5 pot engines in basic parts. Along with enough parts (turbos, downpipes, inter and oil coolers etc). To, in time, pop together a new motor for the 'rallywreck'...

we're getting there...!

4340BB

853 posts

207 months

Friday 19th November 2010
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Good read this!
Keep it up i enjoy build threads with piccies.

Ben .