Arnold gets another one

[S2red]

I'd be surprised if the rear premises did not have access to main road All you would need to do would be fence you boundary at front and that area is effectively worthless

But you never know

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

It was the "Jolly Giant" Toy Store

This proves why never to trust a Car Salesman... the unit has parking for 250 vehicles to the side and rear. The rear section is described as a "yard" and the side section is described as a "parking section".

Aye the salesman claims Arnie owns that land, just not the actual warehouse they use as an indoor used car showroom.

[S2red]

Toy warehouse was there before Arnold bought VW dealership I think

[cas20]

Phoenix no longer appear to have MG at Linwood. Just as I was starting to notice more and more MGs about all be it with Arnold Clark stickers

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Phoenix no longer appear to have MG at Linwood. Just as I was starting to notice more and more MGs about all be it with Arnold Clark stickers

Really? I was at Linwood last Saturday and they still had brand new unreg MGs in the lineup for sale and the MG signage was all still on the building,

I dont know if Phoenix are still making heavy losses like they were a few years ago but i dont see them lasting long term, I have seen more brand new MGs from Phoenix lately than any of their other brands which speaks volumes really.

Im sure Arnold Clark would love their land at Linwood, if not the franchises, except Kia and Hyundai, Glasgow Honda and Suzuki I could see fitting for Parks, same with Stirling Honda, Mitsubishi, Kia and Suzuki, Parks being the only big dealer group who trade in Suzuki and Mitsubishi, never quite understood why more big groups dont do Suzuki, seems an easy franchise to get on with, not too demanding and sells considerably well.

Im also surprised no other dealer has moved into their old Glensburgh Road Grangemouth premises, its been empty since Phoenix moved out, but looks a good modern large site, still up for lease.

Ive a few updates for this thread, i may have already mentioned, if so please accept my apologies;

Arnold Clark:
- Aberdeen Fiat/Jeep/Abarth branch is currently in the process of being adapted to also accommodate the Alfa Romeo franchise again, which they previously held until 2007.
- the ex Calterdon BMW/Mini site on Harbour Road, Inverness they acquire in 2014 and relocated to Longman Road, is being redeveloped into a Skoda dealership, when complete the Skoda franchise currently operated from a dual franchise with Volvo on Longman Road will move to there.
- Ayr Fiat/Abarth is having a new showroom built at Heathfield.
- Perth St Leonards Bank Fiat/Abarth is having a new showroom built at Ruthvenfield Road, Inveralmond a stones throw from their Mercedes and Kia/Jeep dealerships, the site will be a combined Fiat/Abarth/Motorstore branch, im not sure what this will mean for the current 2 Arnold Clark Motorstore branches on the Perth Motor Mile at Dunkeld Road, I cant see them running 3 Motorstores outside of massive citiies like Glasgow and Edinburgh so perhaps these branches will be franchised.
- Renault are bringing back their Alpine brand to the UK in 2018 for sports cars, and Arnold is supposedly to be the sole Scottish franchise.
- Dunfermline Fiat has been partially demolished, refurbished, and the aftersales/service/repairs/parts department have been moved offsite to further down Halbeath Road into premises formerly occupied by Dunfermline Accident Repair Centre.
- West Calder Vauxhall despite not being a Vauxhall brand new car sales site since Arnie took it over from Woods, is getting a makeover to latest Vauxhall CI signage and showroom refurbishment, which is odd as usually Vauxhall service and parts only dealers dont have full signage, they have a pylon/totem sign saying "Vauxhall Service and Parts" and a wallmounted sign saying the same as is the case at Milngavie and Glenrothes Vauxhall sites which dont do new car sales.
- Greenock VW despite being advertised in their press advertisements and website as a full VW dealer is now no longer VW new car sales.
- Helensburgh VW is listed as a full VW dealer in their adverts and website but infact has NO connection to VW at all anymore, not even for service, parts, warranty work or anything, seems its been this way for a while, must be inconvenient if youre in Helensburgh and bought a VW thinking there was dealer for servicing, warranty work etc. and now need to travel considerable distance for it. The very queer thing is Helensburgh branch has a freestanding sign outside with an official VW logo but underneath says "Delivery" and thats the only VW sign anywhere at that dealership, no idea what that signifies.

Evans Halshaw:
- Motherwell Ford was refurbished some time ago to become a Ford Store, however it has now been reurbished yet again, the separate sales office building for used car sales has been demolished, an extra part has been opened up in the new car showroom which seems to consist of basically another used car sales office with desks, and they are fitting yet more new signage to the building.

Parks:
- Coatbridge Whifflet Street branch redevelopment which has been announced by Parks some time ago has finally began construction.
- Ayr Jaguar Land Rover new dealership on the site of their Motorworld used car sales operation, a stones throw from the current Jaguar Land Rover branches is almost ready to open for business, it will be interesting to see what plans Parks have for the soon to be vacant existing Jaguar Land Rover premises within the same building as Volvo which to my knowledge is remaining where it is.
- Inverness Jaguar Land Rover is to have similar as Ayr, the standalone Jaguar sales showroom to be demolished, current LR showroom converted to JLR, bridges built to access the site with a 1 way system in place.
- All Macrae & Dick sites now totally rebranded as Parks, so no trace of Macrae & Dick at all now, oddly they still list as a separate part of Parks on their website like the coaches, Irvine, EK, Thistle Leasing etc. all do but to all intents and purposes are gone.
- East Kilbride Fiat now has the Abarth franchise.
- Elgin Ford is no longer a Mazda service and parts franchise.

Peter Vardy:
- New Dundee CarStore branch is now open.
- They are building a brand new Porsche dealership at Broxden in Perth.

Others:
- Ardneil Garage (former Daihatsu dealer) in Troon has closed down after 62 years, as their rates and taxes sharply increased and they could no longer compete.
- J K Thomson of Cumnock the long standing Ford dealership ceased to be a Ford dealership as of last month, not just Ford new car sales, everything, service, warranty, repairs, parts. No longer affiliated to Ford in any way.
- Helensburgh Toyota have now also opened a Subaru dealership at their Toyota used cars site, which was formerly Helensburgh Honda.
- Taggarts Volvo Motherwell showroom whilst still in Volvo signage has used Nissan cars in the showroom and plastered with graphics for Nissan cared 4 Used Car Sales, whilst Volvo used cars are in the compound next to a white portakabin with signs on it saying Taggarts Volvo sales office. Id imagine this is in preparation for both Motherwell and Maryhill Volvo moving to Hillington, but surely they couldve waited until it was open before moving Volvo out of their Motherwell showroom as its not like its needed for anything else at the moment if theyve had to fill it with used Nissan, its also very unprofessional, imagine going in to look at ordering a £50k new XC90 or something and being met with that, itd be very offputting.
- John Clark are building a Jaguar Land Rover dealership in Dundee, as far as I know there arent and hasnt been for quite a while a Dundee franchise for either brand.

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Really? I was at Linwood last Saturday and they still had brand new unreg MGs in the lineup for sale and the MG signage was all still on the building,

I dont know if Phoenix are still making heavy losses like they were a few years ago but i dont see them lasting long term, I have seen more brand new MGs from Phoenix lately than any of their other brands which speaks volumes really.

Im sure Arnold Clark would love their land at Linwood, if not the franchises, except Kia and Hyundai, Glasgow Honda and Suzuki I could see fitting for Parks, same with Stirling Honda, Mitsubishi, Kia and Suzuki, Parks being the only big dealer group who trade in Suzuki and Mitsubishi, never quite understood why more big groups dont do Suzuki, seems an easy franchise to get on with, not too demanding and sells considerably well.

Im also surprised no other dealer has moved into their old Glensburgh Road Grangemouth premises, its been empty since Phoenix moved out, but looks a good modern large site, still up for lease.

Phoenix was bank debt free and had cash in the bank after completing a sale and leaseback of it's buildings to Arnold Clark in 2013. There is some talk of them building a new Glasgow Honda site on some of the vacant land across from the existing Glasgow site.

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Phoenix was bank debt free and had cash in the bank after completing a sale and leaseback of it's buildings to Arnold Clark in 2013. There is some talk of them building a new Glasgow Honda site on some of the vacant land across from the existing Glasgow site.

Is the Glasgow Honda site one of the premises they sold and leased back to Arnold? therefore is it possible if they do move that Arnold may utilise the existing Phoenix premises themselves?

I have seen some work across the road going on recently now you mention it, although i remember when Machargs first opened at South Street, the spare ground across the road was used as their compound for a few years, so I thought that was Arnold Clark owned land too.

Seems to be a fair bit of activity down that way just now, with Crow Road VWs service department being relocated there next to the Hire Drive and GTG buildings, owing largely I imagine to ACs landlord putting their used car showroom up for lease, so I imagine the vacant service and parts department at Crow Road may become a used car showroom or be removed to make way for a used car display.

There was also supposed to be a Ford commercials sales and service site built on the corner of South Street/Dilwara Avenue for Arnold, in the old Machargs parts centre premises, plans which ive seen were submitted and approved in 2014 but nothing has happened since.

I get the feeling with Arnold they dont think long term with premises, they will build, refurbish or redevelop a site at considerable cost and then just relocate or change their minds on a whim or when new property becomes available they just suddenly change their plans.

Ayr Fiat is a good example, they properly done it up to latest Fiat CI standards, all new Arnold Clark grey and yellow signage and so on when they will have moved out by next year, surely they wouldve known that before they spent money refurbishing premises they plan to soon dispose of, seems a waste of money from a normally pretty shrewd company.

The same with Glasgow Shields Road Kinning Park, they had Jeep and Hyundai, Jeep moved to Linwood, the site became full Hyundai solus, then after Alexandra Parade Hyundai was rebuilt they suddenly changed their mind and decided there was no need for another smaller Hyundai branch in the city, so they closed Shields Road, vacated it, only to suddenly do a u-turn and refurbish it as a used car centre.

Those used car centre Arnold Clarks baffle me, they look like Motorstore branches, they are the same showroom decor, same signage, have a variety of similar stock, but because they only have room for 150 cars rather than 200-plus they get called used car centres rather than Motorstores, Irvine and Glenrothes are the same.

Then you get branches they vacate to new premises and rather than dispose of the surplus property, as they do the majority of the time, they use them for Hire Drive depots, when they are too big for just hiring cars out, ex Inverness Volvo, Ayr Vauxhall Kerr & Smith premises, ex Aberdeen Mazda, Glasgow Allison Street Fiat, Kilmarnock Honda are all like this when they could be sold off or better utlilised than having a 8-10 car showroom, 100-odd used car display, and fully equipped workshop with ramps and parts department being used to solely rent out cars, it seems a bit overkill to me. Surely all a hire drive department needs is a couple of desks and computers in a sales branch, and a wee bit of the compound/parking for rental cars.

[woodysnr]

Henry G

You should go on Mastermind.... and your chosen subject is ....Arnold Clark Branches 1954 to 2017

Edited by woodysnr on Saturday 10th June 08:47

[HendryG]

woodysnr said:

Henry G

You should go on Mastermind.... and your chosen subject is ....Arnold Clark Branches 1954 to 2017

Edited by woodysnr on Saturday 10th June 08:47

yeah! or most other West Scotland dealers, working for Arnie for a while and hearing all the takover, closer, redevelopment, refurbishment talk you pick up quite a lot, and oddly for me i suddenly started getting quite interested in it all.

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Is the Glasgow Honda site one of the premises they sold and leased back to Arnold? therefore is it possible if they do move that Arnold may utilise the existing Phoenix premises themselves?

I have seen some work across the road going on recently now you mention it, although i remember when Machargs first opened at South Street, the spare ground across the road was used as their compound for a few years, so I thought that was Arnold Clark owned land too.

Yes Glasgow was part of sale and leaseback. It will need investment.

I think that there is quite a lot of land on the other side of the road. Not sure where exactly is being spoken of as a possible new site.

[HendryG]

http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/07/...

This will almost certainly happen though im not sure what theyll do with the existing Volvo site, probably put in another franchise.

Also have it on good authority that when Arnolds new Perth dealership opens opposite Mercedes at Inveralmond, not only will it be Fiat/Abarth moving from St Leonards Bank but also a Motorstore, which means the 2 existing Motorstores in Perth on Dunkeld Road will be utilised for something else, 1 of them is to become the UKs first standalone Dacia dealership splitting from the site currently shared with Renault, not sure what the other is to become.

[imagineifyeswill]

Rumour in Inverness is that Arnolds have bought the Council yard in Harbour road and are in the bidding for the recently redundant Forestry Commission workshop and yard next door and is also after the redundant DVSA testing station and yard.

[HendryG]

imagineifyeswill said:

Rumour in Inverness is that Arnolds have bought the Council yard in Harbour road and are in the bidding for the recently redundant Forestry Commission workshop and yard next door and is also after the redundant DVSA testing station and yard.

Wouldnt surprise me at all, they seem to buy up most vacant land going round about here, I just dont know what they have planned if they got all that land, theres not really any more franchises they could put in there, they have most of them and Park's have pretty much the rest in Inverness now, minus the VAG brands at Hawco and Bannerman, FCA brands at Mackenzies and Vauxhall at Autovision (wont be long before they are trying to get their hands on that id guess)

Most of their franchises are in new or freshly refurbished premises already anyway, BMW has a new place at Longman Road, same with Mini, I think Mercedes and Smart at Longman is to be refurbished, Volvo at Longman now has the whole site to itself and will likely be changed about now Skoda is gone, Skoda itself has been moved to the ex BMW/Mini on Harbour Road in a redeveloped site, Renault has a large, prominent fresh enough site, same with Peugeot and Hyundai, and im sure the Citroen showroom was built by ness motors only around 6/7 years ago. All good sites, so no idea what theyd use all that new space they are trying to acquire for, storage, compound, distrbution hub maybe, there are no other franchises they could bring to the area which arent already represented. Maybe acquiring the Kia franchise from Dicksons and building a new site for it, but now im just clutching at straws.

[imagineifyeswill]

There have been lots of rumours about Arnolds and Hawcos floating around Inverness for a couple of years, Autovision was a company formed by MacKays Dingwall and Regency Buckie with the sole intent of keeping Arnolds out which now that PSA have taken over GM Europe may give Arnolds a bit of clout in that direction. Ive heard a rumour that Arnolds already own Bannermans but I doubt thats true. Dont know the situation with Mackenzies or Dicksons whether either would be ripe for a takeover.

[BMR]

HendryG - such a shame that JK Thomson's is no longer a Ford dealer. Found them to be a lot easier and honest to deal with than Arnold's when I was buying my last Fiesta. I believe them losing the ford dealership was to do with the demographics of the area they are in.

Having spoke to them they are still able to source new Fords (or any make as they always were).

[Driver101]

woodysnr said:

Henry G

You should go on Mastermind.... and your chosen subject is ....Arnold Clark Branches 1954 to 2017

Edited by woodysnr on Saturday 10th June 08:47

[HendryG]

imagineifyeswill said:

There have been lots of rumours about Arnolds and Hawcos floating around Inverness for a couple of years, Autovision was a company formed by MacKays Dingwall and Regency Buckie with the sole intent of keeping Arnolds out which now that PSA have taken over GM Europe may give Arnolds a bit of clout in that direction. Ive heard a rumour that Arnolds already own Bannermans but I doubt thats true. Dont know the situation with Mackenzies or Dicksons whether either would be ripe for a takeover.

Yeah Id heard the Hawco rumours too, but I dont see it happening, Hawco have a VW van centre which Arnold would need to dispose of as they dont seem interested in them. And im not sure if Arnold would get an Audi franchise.

I see Hawcos as being taken over, but probably by John Clark/Specialist Cars, or even Lookers, both of these have strong VW/Audi/VW commercials links.

Arnold always had clout with Vauxhall even before they were taken over by PSA, thats why they managed to steal the franchise off of smaller Vauxhall dealers, or swallow them up, just need to look and all Arnolds Vauxhall branches were mostly small independents at one time.

Dont think Arnold owns Bannerman or itd be named Arnold Clark, isnt it owned by the same people who own Ken's Garage the Peugeot dealer in Kildary?

BMR - yeah such a shame, weve been in and spoke to them a few times, very approachable and friendly staff, quite happy to sit and tell us stories of the motor trade etc, me and my mate grabbed the last 4 stickers with the Ford logo on they ever had made, business cards etc.

Theyd said they were only really selling new motability Ford cars, but yeah id imagine it is down to the demographic of the area, although they mustve done well enough up until recently otherwise they wouldve been dropped by Ford years ago, and Kerr & Smith still have a Vauxhall franchise so someone must be buying new cars in the Cumnock area.

I was surprised that although Ford new car sales was dropped, that they didnt elect to keep Ford aftersales/authorised repairer status, I believe the manufacturer cannot refuse any company who meets the requirements and invests the money in signage, tools, equipment and must give them the franchise, all of which Thomsons would have met having been a Ford dealer immediately prior to that.

Now people in that area must travel to Kilmarnock or Ayr for Ford service, warranty and parts. I do have to say their prices are quite high for used cars, I had a look at Arnold Clark for a used Focus and then had a look in Thomsons and they were a good £1500 more expensive on an identical car!

[imagineifyeswill]

Yes Bannermans and Kens Garage are the same company, owned by Bannermans Tain, haulage, seafood and garages. I was just told a few days ago about being owned by Arnolds and think maybe the person who told me has got the wrong end of the stick, thinking about it, its quite possible Arnolds own the property as it shares a yard with Arnolds Car Hire which was originally Autosales Volvo owned by Fergus Ewart, Bannermans was Invercars Honda owned by his brother Ron Ewart sons of the original Ewart of Autosales of Kirriemuir so Arnold may have bought the whole premises.

[cas20]

imagineifyeswill said:

Yes Bannermans and Kens Garage are the same company, owned by Bannermans Tain, haulage, seafood and garages. I was just told a few days ago about being owned by Arnolds and think maybe the person who told me has got the wrong end of the stick, thinking about it, its quite possible Arnolds own the property as it shares a yard with Arnolds Car Hire which was originally Autosales Volvo owned by Fergus Ewart, Bannermans was Invercars Honda owned by his brother Ron Ewart sons of the original Ewart of Autosales of Kirriemuir so Arnold may have bought the whole premises.

Arnold does have pretty significant property portfolio- including many properties let to direct rivals... some in what could be said to be an attempt to keep weak/local competition afloat to prevent large English firms swallowing up companies with marques they do not deal with.

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Arnold does have pretty significant property portfolio- including many properties let to direct rivals... some in what could be said to be an attempt to keep weak/local competition afloat to prevent large English firms swallowing up companies with marques they do not deal with.

The way I see things going is Arnold, Park's and Macklin, Peter Vardy, John Clark, Lookers will continue to swallow up smaller rivals, possibly even acquire Halshaws few remaining Scottish outlets.

The one company I see as staying large but not getting any bigger is Eastern Western.

Eventually what will happen is every franchise will be ran absolutely everywhere by the big 6, except from small and niche franchises like SsangYong, MG, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi. And maybe other very small dealerships such as Garnock Valley Ford, and those in more rural locations up North.

The more these lot grow the more they squeeze what independents are left so the independents bail out and offer their business to the big guys while its still worth something.

Im surprised the likes of Henry's Honda and Skoda, Ingram Group, Hawco, Springside Motors Kia, Belmont/JM Group, Barnetts of Dundee, Struans and so on havent been entirely swallowed up already.

Arnold is now making the move into branches he had the opportunity to buy 20-odd years ago and didnt, They are becoming very ruthless in their acquisition trail, and Parks have sprang into action after years of not growing much. It really wouldnt surprise me if they took over Phoenix in its entirety and its sites which Arnold own vacated and relocated elsewhere, They are the only large Scottish group which has any real interest in Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi etc.