Arnold gets another one

[750turbo]

HendryG said:

a PM you mean?

Yes

[750turbo]

DUMBO100 said:

I thought the fact that they traded under different names Fairbairn etc. was to avoid problems with the monopolies and mergers comission. I've dealt with them for business purposes,they're not pleasant and they have crap salesmen. Like most others I'll buy my cars from the Internet, thanks

Without being abusive...

It is not rocket fkin science!

[HendryG]

DUMBO100 said:

I thought the fact that they traded under different names Fairbairn etc. was to avoid problems with the monopolies and mergers comission. I've dealt with them for business purposes,they're not pleasant and they have crap salesmen. Like most others I'll buy my cars from the Internet, thanks

When I worked for Arnold the line we got told as to why Fairbairns didn't change its name when thy took it over was that part of the agreement to sell the business to him was a clause that the name on the Giffnock and Irvine premises couldn't be changed from Harry Fairbairn whilst Harry's widow Margaret was still living, I think the BMW acquisitions since (Phoenix Kirkcaldy and Calterdon Inverness) have just been renamed to Fairbairns to keep in line with the other BMW businesses, whether this is true and whether the businesses will rename to Arnold Clark at some point remains to be seen although some say its remained Fairbairns because BMW didn't want Arnold Clark's name and poor reputation associated with them.

My personal take on it is it must be BMW policy that if a dealer group has a BMW franchise it must be named differently from the other dealerships, Harry Fairbairn themselves are an example, the BMW business was called that but when they also were Fiat, Honda and Toyota dealers those dealerships were called Fairbairn Fiat, Fairbairn Toyota etc. Same with Parks, most of their dealerships are just called Parks even prestige like Jaguar, Land Rover, but their BMW business is called Douglas Park. Same also with Western, all their dealerships from Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Saab, Suzuki, Seat, VW, Alfa Romeo etc all called Western, their BMW place is called Eastern. And Finally Macrae and Dick, all their garages from Jag, Land Rover, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Ford all called Macrae and Dick but their BMW place is called Menzies. I reckon its either a ploy by BMW to make it seem like all their dealerships are independent or small groups so it conveys more personal touch customer service or Its no different to Lookers/Lomond Audi being called Glasgow Audi or Pendragon Stratstone Mercedes just being called Mercedes of Glasgow rather than the dealers name.

Edited by HendryG on Friday 6th February 22:18

[cas20]

HendryG said:

DUMBO100 said:

I thought the fact that they traded under different names Fairbairn etc. was to avoid problems with the monopolies and mergers comission. I've dealt with them for business purposes,they're not pleasant and they have crap salesmen. Like most others I'll buy my cars from the Internet, thanks

When I worked for Arnold the line we got told as to why Fairbairns didn't change its name when thy took it over was that part of the agreement to sell the business to him was a clause that the name on the Giffnock and Irvine premises couldn't be changed from Harry Fairbairn whilst Harry's widow Margaret was still living, I think the BMW acquisitions since (Phoenix Kirkcaldy and Calterdon Inverness) have just been renamed to Fairbairns to keep in line with the other BMW businesses, whether this is true and whether the businesses will rename to Arnold Clark at some point remains to be seen although some say its remained Fairbairns because BMW didn't want Arnold Clark's name and poor reputation associated with them.

My personal take on it is it must be BMW policy that if a dealer group has a BMW franchise it must be named differently from the other dealerships, Harry Fairbairn themselves are an example, the BMW business was called that but when they also were Fiat, Honda and Toyota dealers those dealerships were called Fairbairn Fiat, Fairbairn Toyota etc. Same with Parks, most of their dealerships are just called Parks even prestige like Jaguar, Land Rover, but their BMW business is called Douglas Park. Same also with Western, all their dealerships from Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Saab, Suzuki, Seat, VW, Alfa Romeo etc all called Western, their BMW place is called Eastern. And Finally Macrae and Dick, all their garages from Jag, Land Rover, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Ford all called Macrae and Dick but their BMW place is called Menzies. I reckon its either a ploy by BMW to make it seem like all their dealerships are independent or small groups so it conveys more personal touch customer service or Its no different to Lookers/Lomond Audi being called Glasgow Audi or Pendragon Stratstone Mercedes just being called Mercedes of Glasgow rather than the dealers name.

Edited by HendryG on Friday 6th February 22:18

Peter Vardy would be the exception to the rule then? Always wondered why they were allowed to use the same name

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Peter Vardy would be the exception to the rule then? Always wondered why they were allowed to use the same name

Good point, hadn't thought of Peter Vardy, I think they got the franchise a lot more recently than the others so possibly that rule has been relaxed since then but perhaps those other dealers didn't change name as by then their BM businesses were well established under those alias names.

Like I say though, could just be a coincidence that most use different identities for their BM dealerships than their volume franchises, possibly to differentiate them for the often snooty BM customers who don't want to think theyvr got their car from a Vauxhall/Citroen/Ford etc dealer. Arnold's official line about not changing the name until Margaret Fairbairn is gone could well be true.

[cas20]

Apparently SDM in Falkirk are joining Arnold Clark in losing/giving up their Nissan franchises if Facebook is to be believed.

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Apparently SDM in Falkirk are joining Arnold Clark in losing/giving up their Nissan franchises if Facebook is to be believed.

Yeah I saw this too, some big changes happening at Nissan, there is also now no Nissan dealer in the whole of Fife since the only one - Flear & Thomson Dunfermline - ceased to be a dealer mid last year, I wonder, like the person who mentioned it on Facebook, who Nissan are planning to have running their dealerships (I suspect Macklin Motors will take some, and possibly Parks Motor Group, as both have existing links to Nissan, premises in the areas Nissan will be dropped from existing dealerships, and are big enough with enough financial clout and resources to open others) Not to mention Macklin already are opening a new Nissan site somewhere in North Glasgow.

The other question is what franchises will Arnold bring in to replace them. At South Street in Glasgow, probably nothing as theres already Ford, Mazda and a Motor store there but that leaves Royston Road, Linwood, and Perth with no franchise, and at Dundee (also Fiat, Chrysler, Jeep, Kia and Ford) Stirling (also Renault) each have a large modern standalone Nissan showroom to fill and not many worthwhile to have franchises available in any of those areas.

Also, on an unrelated note, I've heard Alistair Flemings the Citroen dealer in Ayr and Kilmarnock and Citroe/Seat in Dundee has been taken over by TOM Airdrie, the van sales and rental people. Don't think its changing its name, and Alistair Fleming himself will remain with the new owners, although Seat has already gone from the Dundee branch, Specialist Cars the Skoda dealer has acquired the franchise.

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Yeah I saw this too, some big changes happening at Nissan, there is also now no Nissan dealer in the whole of Fife since the only one - Flear & Thomson Dunfermline - ceased to be a dealer mid last year, I wonder, like the person who mentioned it on Facebook, who Nissan are planning to have running their dealerships (I suspect Macklin Motors will take some, and possibly Parks Motor Group, as both have existing links to Nissan, premises in the areas Nissan will be dropped from existing dealerships, and are big enough with enough financial clout and resources to open others) Not to mention Macklin already are opening a new Nissan site somewhere in North Glasgow.

The other question is what franchises will Arnold bring in to replace them. At South Street in Glasgow, probably nothing as theres already Ford, Mazda and a Motor store there but that leaves Royston Road, Linwood, and Perth with no franchise, and at Dundee (also Fiat, Chrysler, Jeep, Kia and Ford) Stirling (also Renault) each have a large modern standalone Nissan showroom to fill and not many worthwhile to have franchises available in any of those areas.

Also, on an unrelated note, I've heard Alistair Flemings the Citroen dealer in Ayr and Kilmarnock and Citroe/Seat in Dundee has been taken over by TOM Airdrie, the van sales and rental people. Don't think its changing its name, and Alistair Fleming himself will remain with the new owners, although Seat has already gone from the Dundee branch, Specialist Cars the Skoda dealer has acquired the franchise.

Hyundai is going into the Stirling Nissan site, it currently shares with Citroen in a former JM Group site that Arnold is looking to refresh.

I imagine that John Clark/Specialist may fancy the Nissan franchise for Dundee- they have plenty of presence in Dundee including the Seat they have just taken on.

In Perth, perhaps MacRae and Dick or Eastern Western? MacRae have a presence in Perth and EW recently attempted (unsuccessfully) to take on the Isuzu territory ditched by Clark after the John Weir buyout- though not sure the ex SAAB site is up to scratch.

As for Nissan in Central Scotland, I cannot see Park's wanting a stand alone site for Nissan. They dont seem to have any space in the ex-Verve in Bathgate- the site looks poor as it is without squeezing another marque in.

Macklin may fancy a move into Stirling/Falkirk/West Lothian. Phoenix is sitting on a pile of cash after it's refinancing last year but really needs to refresh it's Glasgow site sometime soon. Not sure it has space for Nissan in Linwood and Stirling but John McGuire does have Nissan links and I think used to hold the franchise in Renfrewshire.

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Hyundai is going into the Stirling Nissan site, it currently shares with Citroen in a former JM Group site that Arnold is looking to refresh.

I imagine that John Clark/Specialist may fancy the Nissan franchise for Dundee- they have plenty of presence in Dundee including the Seat they have just taken on.

In Perth, perhaps MacRae and Dick or Eastern Western? MacRae have a presence in Perth and EW recently attempted (unsuccessfully) to take on the Isuzu territory ditched by Clark after the John Weir buyout- though not sure the ex SAAB site is up to scratch.

As for Nissan in Central Scotland, I cannot see Park's wanting a stand alone site for Nissan. They dont seem to have any space in the ex-Verve in Bathgate- the site looks poor as it is without squeezing another marque in.

Macklin may fancy a move into Stirling/Falkirk/West Lothian. Phoenix is sitting on a pile of cash after it's refinancing last year but really needs to refresh it's Glasgow site sometime soon. Not sure it has space for Nissan in Linwood and Stirling but John McGuire does have Nissan links and I think used to hold the franchise in Renfrewshire.

Hmm, does that mean the current Stirling Citroen/Hyundai site will become standalone Citroen? Seems strange they want to refresh the site again as it was only refurbished about 3 years ago.

I've previously mentioned that a customer in my work last week who bought a car from Arnies Seat/Hyundai at Alexandra Parade had said the salesman told him that that site was soon to close as it was relocating to near the Evans Halshaw Ford on Cumbernauld Road, he didn't say where but Nissan Royston Road is close by so maybe moving to there?

I've just googled and came across a topic on a Nissan Leaf forum where a guy who ordered a new one from John Clark/Specialist Cars Aberdeen was told by some others to watch out as Arnies were losing the franchise and they could be the same and he replied saying his salesman had assured him Specialist Cars were deffo not losing the franchise but in fact were acquiring the franchise is some areas Arnold's were losing it.

In Perth apparently AC are taking on the Alfa franchise again after Western closed, also supposed to be taking it on in Kemnay where they hold Chrysler Jeep and recently dropped Peugeot and Chevrolet and are apparently making it a Alfa/Abarth and Jeep site, anyway it was always thought Alfa would go into the Chevrolet site Arnold built where John R Weirs Honda Motorbike dealership was now that Chevrolet have pulled out of Europe. This might seem strange after Alfa pulling all Arnold's Alf's sales franchises in 2007 but the proof is in their recently opened Leeds dealership being a Alfa franchise.

Can't see Phoenix taking on Nissan again, you are correct they did run Nissan in Linwood until 2003 when Arnold acquired the Nissan franchise for Renfrewshire and temporarily ran it from their East Lane Paisley Renault dealership until Arnolds Linwood Toyota had moved to a new building at Linwood when they moved Nissan into the original Toyota site which is actually right next door to where Phoenix Nissan was, it became Kia after they got the franchise from Thorn Kia in Johnstone.

I also doubt they will refurbish their Glasgow site, the sheds which formed the Kia and Suzuki showrooms are now just Suzuki as Kia took the franchise off them and gave it to Arnold who built a new showroom for Kia next to their Fiat dealership on Springburn Road, it stems from the fact the main building is a Phoenix Honda dealership and Honda, like Toyota, don't allow other manufacturers to dual/multi franchise with them. I didn't know Phoenix had refinanced an were in good shape now though, I knew they were loss making and had sold BMW/Mini in Kirkcaldy to Arnold and Hyundai in Edinburgh to Macklin as a result. They also recently as in just before Christmas closed their Grangemouth Honda dealership which Arnold again has supposedly acquired the premises.

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Hmm, does that mean the current Stirling Citroen/Hyundai site will become standalone Citroen? Seems strange they want to refresh the site again as it was only refurbished about 3 years ago.

I've previously mentioned that a customer in my work last week who bought a car from Arnies Seat/Hyundai at Alexandra Parade had said the salesman told him that that site was soon to close as it was relocating to near the Evans Halshaw Ford on Cumbernauld Road, he didn't say where but Nissan Royston Road is close by so maybe moving to there?

I've just googled and came across a topic on a Nissan Leaf forum where a guy who ordered a new one from John Clark/Specialist Cars Aberdeen was told by some others to watch out as Arnies were losing the franchise and they could be the same and he replied saying his salesman had assured him Specialist Cars were deffo not losing the franchise but in fact were acquiring the franchise is some areas Arnold's were losing it.

In Perth apparently AC are taking on the Alfa franchise again after Western closed, also supposed to be taking it on in Kemnay where they hold Chrysler Jeep and recently dropped Peugeot and Chevrolet and are apparently making it a Alfa/Abarth and Jeep site, anyway it was always thought Alfa would go into the Chevrolet site Arnold built where John R Weirs Honda Motorbike dealership was now that Chevrolet have pulled out of Europe. This might seem strange after Alfa pulling all Arnold's Alf's sales franchises in 2007 but the proof is in their recently opened Leeds dealership being a Alfa franchise.

Can't see Phoenix taking on Nissan again, you are correct they did run Nissan in Linwood until 2003 when Arnold acquired the Nissan franchise for Renfrewshire and temporarily ran it from their East Lane Paisley Renault dealership until Arnolds Linwood Toyota had moved to a new building at Linwood when they moved Nissan into the original Toyota site which is actually right next door to where Phoenix Nissan was, it became Kia after they got the franchise from Thorn Kia in Johnstone.

I also doubt they will refurbish their Glasgow site, the sheds which formed the Kia and Suzuki showrooms are now just Suzuki as Kia took the franchise off them and gave it to Arnold who built a new showroom for Kia next to their Fiat dealership on Springburn Road, it stems from the fact the main building is a Phoenix Honda dealership and Honda, like Toyota, don't allow other manufacturers to dual/multi franchise with them. I didn't know Phoenix had refinanced an were in good shape now though, I knew they were loss making and had sold BMW/Mini in Kirkcaldy to Arnold and Hyundai in Edinburgh to Macklin as a result. They also recently as in just before Christmas closed their Grangemouth Honda dealership which Arnold again has supposedly acquired the premises.

Honda do allow multi-franchise... look at the East Kilbride Park's Honda. Yeah, Phoenix did a sale and lease of all their properties to ditch their bank debt after a breach and have ditched their loss making sites Edinburgh, Kirkcaldy and Grangemouth.

The Glasgow site is in need of some money spent on it- potholes etc. They will have to do something to it. Had Phoenix not built the Kia/Suzuki showroom site on the cheap after the Henry acquisition they may have kept Kia. Apparently they considered similiar buildings to their Stirling site but chose a low cost alternative.

[Craigie]

So what is Arnold putting into the Makro site at Hillington next to Peter Vardy? Will that be a franchise or will be it be another Motorstore?
Huge big building, would guess it could store 100+ cars at a time?

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

Honda do allow multi-franchise... look at the East Kilbride Park's Honda. Yeah, Phoenix did a sale and lease of all their properties to ditch their bank debt after a breach and have ditched their loss making sites Edinburgh, Kirkcaldy and Grangemouth.

The Glasgow site is in need of some money spent on it- potholes etc. They will have to do something to it. Had Phoenix not built the Kia/Suzuki showroom site on the cheap after the Henry acquisition they may have kept Kia. Apparently they considered similiar buildings to their Stirling site but chose a low cost alternative.

Although it may seem like Parks Honda at EK is multi franchise, it is a separate entity with separate showroom to the other showrooms on site, and each is ran separately, I bought my car from there and thought I'd just bought it from Parks East Kilbride multi franchise, but it actually was officially purchased from Parks Citroen, although its a Renault and theres a Renault franchise on site when it needed work done under their warranty I had to go to the Citroen service department (there's a separate individual one for each franchise), and even though there's Renault trained mechanics there it was worked on by the Citroen mechanics. All my purchase invoices are from the Citroen dealership like what would happen if it was a standalone dealership, not like when you buy a car from say Arnold's, like the Citroen/Fiat dealership in Paisley i worked in, where you just bought it from the dealership as a whole, not the Citroen or Fiat branch specifically, and the service department was just 1 for both franchises, 2 workshops but neither was marque specific, the mechanics belonged to the dealership as a whole, not an individual franchise.

As for buildings at Phoenix like the Stirling ones, I think they we're designed and built by/for Abercromby (remember them?) Who also did similar with the dealerships at Halbeath Interchange in Dunfermline and IMO they look crap, don't look much like a traditional car dealership, look too similar like a load of brick boxes with a different badge over the door, with nothing to distinguish them, also don't like the glass panelled workshops instead of a wall at the back of the building, I really like the dealerships like Peugeot and Kia do which isn't just a generic showroom which could pass for any manufacturers its whole building is immersed in the marque rather than just a sign for that particular manufacturer and its so clear which franchise it is and couldn't be mistaken for any other.

I notice also Phoenix have taken on the MG franchise at their Motown showroom in Linwood, quite a brave move.

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Although it may seem like Parks Honda at EK is multi franchise, it is a separate entity with separate showroom to the other showrooms on site, and each is ran separately, I bought my car from there and thought I'd just bought it from Parks East Kilbride multi franchise, but it actually was officially purchased from Parks Citroen, although its a Renault and theres a Renault franchise on site when it needed work done under their warranty I had to go to the Citroen service department (there's a separate individual one for each franchise), and even though there's Renault trained mechanics there it was worked on by the Citroen mechanics. All my purchase invoices are from the Citroen dealership like what would happen if it was a standalone dealership, not like when you buy a car from say Arnold's, like the Citroen/Fiat dealership in Paisley i worked in, where you just bought it from the dealership as a whole, not the Citroen or Fiat branch specifically, and the service department was just 1 for both franchises, 2 workshops but neither was marque specific, the mechanics belonged to the dealership as a whole, not an individual franchise.

As for buildings at Phoenix like the Stirling ones, I think they we're designed and built by/for Abercromby (remember them?) Who also did similar with the dealerships at Halbeath Interchange in Dunfermline and IMO they look crap, don't look much like a traditional car dealership, look too similar like a load of brick boxes with a different badge over the door, with nothing to distinguish them, also don't like the glass panelled workshops instead of a wall at the back of the building, I really like the dealerships like Peugeot and Kia do which isn't just a generic showroom which could pass for any manufacturers its whole building is immersed in the marque rather than just a sign for that particular manufacturer and its so clear which franchise it is and couldn't be mistaken for any other.

I notice also Phoenix have taken on the MG franchise at their Motown showroom in Linwood, quite a brave move.

That is how a multi franchise operation is run. They do share a general manager in EK and each of the 8 franchises has a sales manager. The showrooms all connect. It is not a stand alone site.

Phoenix should have built showrooms similiar to their Paisley Suzuki and MG/Motown on the Glasgow site at the very least. As opposed to the tin box they have now!

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

That is how a multi franchise operation is run. They do share a general manager in EK and each of the 8 franchises has a sales manager. The showrooms all connect. It is not a stand alone site.

Phoenix should have built showrooms similiar to their Paisley Suzuki and MG/Motown on the Glasgow site at the very least. As opposed to the tin box they have now!

Well if that's the case then Parks must run their multi franchise different to how Arnold's do, because Arnold's have 1 sales manager, maybe 2 if it's a really big site over the whole different 5 or 6 franchises, they have 1 service department covering all the franchises, with 1 set of service advisors covering all franchises and 1 team of mechanics in the workshop, whereas like you say at Parks each franchise has a sales manager, plus each franchise has an individual service department with individual desks and service advisors, specific mechanics to that franchise, etc.

Anyway my point that Honda don't dual frsnchise still stands, all Parks EK showrooms may connect but they are separate with partitions whereas in other dual or multi franchises with other manufacturers, take Parks Fiat/Renault in Motherwell as an example, both makes are sold in the same showroom with nothing separating them, and the same service department and staff for both makes, look at any Honda franchise and you'll find any of them even if they share the same building or land are separate, When Arnold's had the Honda franchise in Altrincham, Ayr, Kilmarnock Kirkcaldy, Manchester and Stockport only the Kilmarnock site shared land with other franchises but it was kept separate, as are all of Phoenix's sites for Honda in Glasgow, Linwood and Stirling.

As for Makro at Hillington, I believe the plan is for a Motorstore, a Prestige & Performance dept plus the Renault/Dacia franchises relocating from East Lane in Paisley, but there's also talk that Fiat at Renfrew Road in Paisley will go there, and that Abarth could be added to the Fiat showroom.

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/58816232@N05/1552680...

[cas20]

HendryG said:

Well if that's the case then Parks must run their multi franchise different to how Arnold's do, because Arnold's have 1 sales manager, maybe 2 if it's a really big site over the whole different 5 or 6 franchises, they have 1 service department covering all the franchises, with 1 set of service advisors covering all franchises and 1 team of mechanics in the workshop, whereas like you say at Parks each franchise has a sales manager, plus each franchise has an individual service department with individual desks and service advisors, specific mechanics to that franchise, etc.

Anyway my point that Honda don't dual frsnchise still stands, all Parks EK showrooms may connect but they are separate with partitions whereas in other dual or multi franchises with other manufacturers, take Parks Fiat/Renault in Motherwell as an example, both makes are sold in the same showroom with nothing separating them, and the same service department and staff for both makes, look at any Honda franchise and you'll find any of them even if they share the same building or land are separate, When Arnold's had the Honda franchise in Altrincham, Ayr, Kilmarnock Kirkcaldy, Manchester and Stockport only the Kilmarnock site shared land with other franchises but it was kept separate, as are all of Phoenix's sites for Honda in Glasgow, Linwood and Stirling.

As for Makro at Hillington, I believe the plan is for a Motorstore, a Prestige & Performance dept plus the Renault/Dacia franchises relocating from East Lane in Paisley, but there's also talk that Fiat at Renfrew Road in Paisley will go there, and that Abarth could be added to the Fiat showroom.

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/58816232@N05/1552680...

A Fiat salesman at Park's in East Kilbride could very well sell you a brand new Honda and vice versa. They may run them differently but they are essentially multi franchise sites.

I wonder who will end up with Nissan in central Scotland, interesting times ahead

[Craigie]

Do Taggarts not still have Nissan at Motherwell?

[HendryG]

cas20 said:

A Fiat salesman at Park's in East Kilbride could very well sell you a brand new Honda and vice versa. They may run them differently but they are essentially multi franchise sites.

I wonder who will end up with Nissan in central Scotland, interesting times ahead

Are you sure? When I bought the second hand Clio from Citroen Parks EK, I enquired about deals on a new one and the sales guy said I'd have to go over to the Renault showroom and deal with a salesman there for a new one, his statement was any of the salesmen at any of the franchises could sell you any used car they had on site or at another branch and have it brought in for you but could only sell you a new car from the particular franchise they were employed in.

And yes Taggarts still have Nissan in Motherwell, maybe Nissans idea is less sites meaning more sales per site, rather han having the same number of sales split between 3 or 4 in the same area making each site less profitable. The talk is Arnold has binned off the franchise because Nissan has pretty much doubled their new car sales target per branch when they were struggling to reach the current target. Its very strange because 10-12 years ago Nissan sites were everywhere despite them selling unfashionable cars like Almeras and Primeras which didn't sell anything like as well as Qashqais, Jukes, and Notes. It also seems its totally out of the blue, Arnies Nissan in Dundee for example used to share a site with Renault, about 3/4 years ago Arnold moved Hyundai in with Renault and built a new custom build standalone Nissan showroom over at Balfield Road next to Fiat, Kia and Ford.

[cas20]

Nissan has had real growth as of late and you see them everywhere now! So maybe only one Nissan site needed to cover central Scotland now?
Yes, I am very sure- I know a Fiat salesman there who moved over from Halshaw and he was trying to sell me a Honda- he knows I like Honda's due to the miles I do and mileage rate I get paid!I stuck with Phoenix.

[cas20]

To answer your question from before Hendry, Clark will roll out the new Hyundai corporate ID at some point soon in Stirling

[MissChief]

So out of interest what car dealer groups are left in Central Scotland and what marques do they now cover? Truly independent Main Dealers have almost disappeared surely?