Glasgow car dealers in the 60's -70's
Discussion
irc said:
That looks to me like the former garage in Garrioch Road. In the 1980s it was Jim Watt's Garage. Now a block of flats as per google streetview.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8829961,-4.28814...
I think you're on the money with your suggestion. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8829961,-4.28814...
Edited by irc on Wednesday 15th November 19:02
Discovered on another thread (Hidden Glasgow) that Jim Watt's place was called Kirklee Autos before he took it over. In the Jim Watt years was the build per my photograph or was it a different style of building by that point? Would
Thanks,
Brian
steveL98 said:
Where I lived in Kilmarnock near the garden centre/cycle shop opposite Matalan, there was a Skelly's Ford compound on that site with rows of Mk1 Escort Twincam's, Cortina Loti, and latterly Mk1 Escort RS1600's, ..they weren't selling too well at an extortionate around £1500 a time.
I would have thought it would have been McConechie's (SP?) compound as they had a Ford Dealership across from the current fire station when I was a lad.Bogsye said:
I think you're on the money with your suggestion.
Discovered on another thread (Hidden Glasgow) that Jim Watt's place was called Kirklee Autos before he took it over. In the Jim Watt years was the build per my photograph or was it a different style of building by that point? Would
Thanks,
Brian
Sorry Brian I'm not sure. I worked in the area in the 1980s and walked past or drove past countless times but it was 30+ years ago! I think it was a similar style but couldn't swear to it. Certainly don't recall motors lined up outside. The general lines and size were the same or similar. Possibly not the phone box or petrol pump.Discovered on another thread (Hidden Glasgow) that Jim Watt's place was called Kirklee Autos before he took it over. In the Jim Watt years was the build per my photograph or was it a different style of building by that point? Would
Thanks,
Brian
Iain
cuprabob said:
steveL98 said:
Where I lived in Kilmarnock near the garden centre/cycle shop opposite Matalan, there was a Skelly's Ford compound on that site with rows of Mk1 Escort Twincam's, Cortina Loti, and latterly Mk1 Escort RS1600's, ..they weren't selling too well at an extortionate around £1500 a time.
I would have thought it would have been McConechie's (SP?) compound as they had a Ford Dealership across from the current fire station when I was a lad.McConnochie's back then was a Rootes dealership selling Avengers mainly. Skelly's main Ford showroom was in what is now the Indoor Market on Titchfield St. in Kilmarnock. McConnochie's took over Ford sales once Skelly's closed.
Skelly's original showroom used to be in Grange St. directly opposite the pub which was called the Old Killie, but latterly Whisky Joe's. You can still see the curved glass of the car showroom which I think is now, I think, a hairdressers on the corner.
re Skellys, the garages were started by Skelly senior and 3 sons entered and ran the business namely Billy, Sherwood and Ian. At one point they were the biggest Ford dealers in Europe with 5 dealerships (at the time Ford only allowed a dealer group of 5 Ford dealerships) in Motherwell, Glasgow, Dumbarton, Kilmarnock and I think Kirkintilloch. Kilmarnock opened and closed a couple of times as they tried to expand South (keeping to the 5 dealership rule). They had a very large dealership in Liverpool and a site earmarked in Manchester .They also developed a Vauxhall dealership in Edinburgh in the mid 70's.It was then there must have been a fall out between brothers and Ian moved out to start his new business. Thereafter problems arose and I think Liverpool was sold (Kilmarnock re opened) then all were sold to the Barr Wallace Arnold Trust. Edinburgh remained for a while until it to was sold for non motor trade use. As a point of interest the dealerships were high volume units, with restaurant/café facilities for the public-including lunches and childrens play areas all well ahead of their time.
bambie said:
re Skellys, the garages were started by Skelly senior and 3 sons entered and ran the business namely Billy, Sherwood and Ian. At one point they were the biggest Ford dealers in Europe with 5 dealerships (at the time Ford only allowed a dealer group of 5 Ford dealerships) in Motherwell, Glasgow, Dumbarton, Kilmarnock and I think Kirkintilloch. Kilmarnock opened and closed a couple of times as they tried to expand South (keeping to the 5 dealership rule). They had a very large dealership in Liverpool and a site earmarked in Manchester .They also developed a Vauxhall dealership in Edinburgh in the mid 70's.It was then there must have been a fall out between brothers and Ian moved out to start his new business. Thereafter problems arose and I think Liverpool was sold (Kilmarnock re opened) then all were sold to the Barr Wallace Arnold Trust. Edinburgh remained for a while until it to was sold for non motor trade use. As a point of interest the dealerships were high volume units, with restaurant/café facilities for the public-including lunches and childrens play areas all well ahead of their time.
Aye there were a lot of rules imposed by Ford even up until the 90s whereby you could also only have so many adjoining territories as well, and that you couldnt operate a franchise other than Ford within 30miles of one of your Ford franchises. Rules which if still in place today would certainly have meant the survival of more independents or smaller groups rather than it just be Arnold, Evans Halshaw, Parks, or Lookers the length and breadth of the UK for Ford. Dont remember them having a dealership in Kirkintilloch, could be wrong of course, but I thought that was operated by another longstanding large Ford dealer group of the time Alexanders who operated also in Cumbernauld, Edinburgh, Greenock, etc. Also surprised Ford let them get away with continually opening and shutting the Kilmarnock one.
Didnt realise they had developed a Vauxhall dealership in the 70s too, of course there were a lot of different Vauxhall dealers in Edinburgh back then than what exists now so ive no idea where it wouldve been, but as i said never heard them associated with Vauxhall before so presumably they offloaded it to someone else.
Of course this having dealerships in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Manchester and Liverpool strategy worked well, with Ian replicating the same coverage with his VW/Audi dealerships to the point he sold them for £18.5m around 13/14 years later, always found it funny how Appleyard closed their site at Wishaw, Skelly took it over and opened it up and Appleyard ended up buying them back.
I remember Glasgow and Motherwell being sold to Trust Motors, and both branches are still there in the same site even today after several changes of ownership. I think Dumbarton wasnt sold to Barr Wallace Arnold Trust though, I seem to remember Tom Inglis of Strathford was working as a manager at Dalblair of Ayr and was doing well, Ford had earmarked him as one for their dealer development programme and had offered him Dumbarton and the chance to run his own company with Ford also supplying him with some of the funds to start up and so Strathford was born, of course some years later Strathford ended up the dealer for Kilmarnock too after Maconochies. As for Liverpool, as with Tom Inglis, I think Ford had earmarked Brian Gilda for their dealer development programme too and had offered him Stout Bros Ford in Bathgate, then Clydeford/Peter Cannon at Shawfield/Rutherglen, and then eventually they offered him Liverpool which was Skellys because I remember reading an interview with him where he was talking about how he became a successful motor dealer and he said he'd worked for both Arnold Clark and Ian Skelly so it was quite fitting he should be offered their Liverpool premises, but something tells me in between times it had gone from Skellys to being called Skyways Ford or something similar.
Might well be right that Skellys were not in Kirkintilloch but Alexanders def were. The original Skellys also had Skellford insurance offices in Glasgow and Motherwell, a rental office in Liverpool city centre, a head office next to the Mothrwell dealership called The White House (it was a very Americanised company-suspect the Ian Skelly influence) and Skelly Aviation though this company ran only one plane.I think the Liverpool dealership eventually became Peoples which I think Gilda was involved with. Re the Vauxhall dealership in Edinburgh (Seafield Road nr Portobello) it reduced in size after the sale of the Ford group and later was sold to Status who became MFI. I recollect the other Edinburgh Vauxhall dealers were Bilston (on the outskirts) West Saville Motors and SMT. Don't think there were more. What happened to the Opel dealers on the road out of Glasgow on the rhs going to Edinburgh. Think there may have been Italian influence.
bambie said:
Might well be right that Skellys were not in Kirkintilloch but Alexanders def were. The original Skellys also had Skellford insurance offices in Glasgow and Motherwell, a rental office in Liverpool city centre, a head office next to the Mothrwell dealership called The White House (it was a very Americanised company-suspect the Ian Skelly influence) and Skelly Aviation though this company ran only one plane.I think the Liverpool dealership eventually became Peoples which I think Gilda was involved with. Re the Vauxhall dealership in Edinburgh (Seafield Road nr Portobello) it reduced in size after the sale of the Ford group and later was sold to Status who became MFI. I recollect the other Edinburgh Vauxhall dealers were Bilston (on the outskirts) West Saville Motors and SMT. Don't think there were more. What happened to the Opel dealers on the road out of Glasgow on the rhs going to Edinburgh. Think there may have been Italian influence.
For Vauxhall in Edinburgh I remember there being a dealership at Bilston and West Saville who I think were Stirling & Wilson, later renamed Abercromby who became quite big over Scotland as a group retailing various makes, there was and still is a Vauxhall dealer at Seafield Road, which is now Peter Vardy but for a long long time before that was Belmont (part of the John Martin Group), and Evans Halshaw at Sighthill, which for years before that was Premier of Edinburgh.I think youre right about Ian Skelly having quite a lot of North American ideas and concepts of running a business, Brian Gilda went to work for a while in North America, Canada etc. and adopted the same sort of ideas to running a business before coming back home and running a few dealerships for a holding company called Gael Securities, they later went bust but Gildas personal track record with them had Ford penciling him in for funding for young entrepreneurs for their dealer development funding scheme at the time. From what I remember reading Gilda went to work abroad selling magazine subscriptions in the 60s, came back to Scotland, got a job working for Arnold Clark, was headhunted by the Skelly family and was their sales manager at the Dumbarton branch before he left to go selling cars in North America before coming back and running the garages for Gael Securities, who then went bust, he went on the dole and was then approached by Ford about taking over the dealership in Bathgate, then later Rutherglen and Liverpool. As an aside I think one of Gael Securities dealerships was at Allison Street in Govanhill which when it went bust and closed down Arnold Clark acquired the site for their head office, used car supermarket and an Austin Rover franchise before changing a few years later to Fiat after Ritchies (by then part of SMT/Lex) had changed to Rover, Citroen and Toyota, this site itself ended up owned by Shields after an MBO.
This Gael wasnt the same Gael who later ran Hyundai/Suzuki in Crookedholm (Kilmarnock) and Hyundai at Barrhead Road in Crookston (former Westcars Audi/VW/Alfa Romeo site) and was owned by a guy called Alf Henighen who was formerly a sales director at the now defunct Peat Road Motors. Of course this Gael was later taken over by Verve, who had also previously acquired the Ian Skelly VW sites at Rutherglen and Wishaw.
I remember Ian Skelly didnt last long out of the trade before buying a VW/Audi franchise called Colindale in North London which was sold to Lancaster (now part of Jardine Motors, who also acquired Appleyard who had of course acquired the original Ian Skelly) then he bought the old Clyde Alloy site in Motherwell and built a dealership first as a Nissan franchise, then quickly changed to Skellys Motorstore at a time when Euro import new cars were common the UK due to how much more expensive new cars were in the UK compared with abroad, I certainly remember several Opels with Skellys plates and window stickers, then of course Arnold Clark bought it over and this was where the Arnold Clark Motorstore brand stemmed from, and some years later bought Skellys original VW dealerships in Rutherglen and Wishaw from Verve who were struggling and making heavy losses at the time and ended up in receivership about 15months after selling those 2 sites to Arnold.
Forgot Stirling and Wilson. They were actually another Edinburgh Vauxhall dealer up near the top of Myreside Road. Abercromby bought them, Bilston and West Saville mainly for their property values I think as apart from Bilston didn't remain as car dealerships. Days are so different in the retail motor industry, fewer dealers, more plc's. Cars are much better but the fun of the business seems to have gone.
bambie said:
Forgot Stirling and Wilson. They were actually another Edinburgh Vauxhall dealer up near the top of Myreside Road. Abercromby bought them, Bilston and West Saville mainly for their property values I think as apart from Bilston didn't remain as car dealerships. Days are so different in the retail motor industry, fewer dealers, more plc's. Cars are much better but the fun of the business seems to have gone.
Yeah I was thinking about this earlier and in a lot of franchises there are literally zero independent groups now, and with others they are mainly run by the large companies, only the likes of Ford have kept some small independents.If you look at Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen, these are pretty exclusively ran by groups, be it small groups like Camerons of Perth and Hawco or Ingrams, or larger ones like Eastern Western, John Clark Specialist Cars, Pendragon, Peter Vardy and Arnold Clark.
Even in the volume sector there are very few independents, for example, im fairly sure except from Donald Mackenzie of Inverness, Arnold and Parks are the only Fiat dealers the length and breadth of Scotland, those 2 run the vast majority of the Renault dealer network in Scotland between them, it is only in the smaller more niche franchises like Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Subaru, Isuzu, SsangYong, MG, the what id say were unattractive and not big selling, hugely profitable franchises where they dont have a foothold.
HendryG said:
Yeah I was thinking about this earlier and in a lot of franchises there are literally zero independent groups now, and with others they are mainly run by the large companies, only the likes of Ford have kept some small independents.
If you look at Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen, these are pretty exclusively ran by groups, be it small groups like Camerons of Perth and Hawco or Ingrams, or larger ones like Eastern Western, John Clark Specialist Cars, Pendragon, Peter Vardy and Arnold Clark.
Even in the volume sector there are very few independents, for example, im fairly sure except from Donald Mackenzie of Inverness, Arnold and Parks are the only Fiat dealers the length and breadth of Scotland, those 2 run the vast majority of the Renault dealer network in Scotland between them, it is only in the smaller more niche franchises like Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Subaru, Isuzu, SsangYong, MG, the what id say were unattractive and not big selling, hugely profitable franchises where they dont have a foothold.
I think the only Independent Ford dealer left in Aberdeenshire is Huntly Motors. A nice father & Son family business, I purchased my Focus RS from them back in 2009 with superb after sales service. I’m now looking at buying a Mustang, but my nearest official Mustang dealer is Parks in Inverness or its down to Peoples in Edinburgh. I’ve been told the Fordstore can now supply the Mustang, locally for me that would be AC in Aberdeen.If you look at Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen, these are pretty exclusively ran by groups, be it small groups like Camerons of Perth and Hawco or Ingrams, or larger ones like Eastern Western, John Clark Specialist Cars, Pendragon, Peter Vardy and Arnold Clark.
Even in the volume sector there are very few independents, for example, im fairly sure except from Donald Mackenzie of Inverness, Arnold and Parks are the only Fiat dealers the length and breadth of Scotland, those 2 run the vast majority of the Renault dealer network in Scotland between them, it is only in the smaller more niche franchises like Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Subaru, Isuzu, SsangYong, MG, the what id say were unattractive and not big selling, hugely profitable franchises where they dont have a foothold.
ian2144 said:
I think the only Independent Ford dealer left in Aberdeenshire is Huntly Motors. A nice father & Son family business, I purchased my Focus RS from them back in 2009 with superb after sales service. I’m now looking at buying a Mustang, but my nearest official Mustang dealer is Parks in Inverness or its down to Peoples in Edinburgh. I’ve been told the Fordstore can now supply the Mustang, locally for me that would be AC in Aberdeen.
Fordstores always could supply the Mustang, this was 1 of the things which was specific to the Fordstore dealerships was they could sell the Focus RS, Mustang and Vignale range. I dont think Arnold Clark have any Fordstores, because basically official Mustang dealers are the same thing as Fordstores.
I think what happened was Ford store is now just Focus RS and Mustang, the Vignale range can now be sold by every Ford dealer as its just a top trim on the standard models now and has been rolled out to things like the Fiesta now.
Im in Glasgow and if we want to use an independent Ford dealer (in this whole area from Dumfries right up to the East coast its Arnold Clark, Macklin Motors, Evans Halshaw, Peoples, and Park's) then we've only got 2 choices and neither are local to me, the first is Garnock Valley Ford In Kilbirnie, or W&J Duncan which means crossing the water to Rothesay. The North and East of the country seems better served by independents than the South and West. As you say theres Huntly Motors, theres also Moravian in Buckie, Ben Nevis Motors, W R Tullock, Lamb & Gardiner Coupar Angus, Lamberts Garage Leven, Glenford Forfar, Guthrie Bros Montrose, Balmoral Garage Blairgowrie, Aboyne Service Station, Cupar and Dalkeith Ford Centres, David Harrison Peebles etc.
Whereas the South and West of Scotland have practically no independents left. Time will tell if the less densely populated and more rural areas will go the same way, or if the independents will survive with the big players not interested in rural out of town sites.
Edited by HendryG on Thursday 11th January 15:52
Edited by HendryG on Thursday 11th January 15:55
MalcolmSmith said:
No mention of Ritchie’s in Shields Road - Fiat, Ferrari and Lotus, with the latter franchise going to SMT at Finnieston in the 80’s.
Mickey Oates was in York Street, now up at Port Dundas.
If ive not mentioned Ritchies at Shields Road i'll be very surprised, Lotus didnt actually change franchise holder to SMT from Ritchies, Ritchies were part of SMT, they simply relocated the franchise to Vauxhall branch at Finnieston Street, both were part of the Lex Service group. Mickey Oates was in York Street, now up at Port Dundas.
Ritchies and Fiat parted in 1989 when Arnold Clark acquired the franchise at Allison Street, replacing Austin Rover, in an almost swap Ritchies changed name to Lex and took on Rover, Citroen and Toyota, and eventually Citroen was dropped, a management buyout ensued early 1990s by Joe O'Donnell at a time when Lex were selling off a lot of their sites, and hence Shields Rover and soon after Shields Toyota were formed.
Croall & Croall Mechanical Insurance booklet by Alan Gold, on FlickrMalcolmSmith said:
No mention of Ritchie’s in Shields Road - Fiat, Ferrari and Lotus, with the latter franchise going to SMT at Finnieston in the 80’s.
Mickey Oates was in York Street, now up at Port Dundas.
I was at school with Campbell Ritchie in the '60's. Good guy and lovely family.Mickey Oates was in York Street, now up at Port Dundas.
Bought my first bike from Mickey in 1967. Sure he was at/near The Barras back then.
Interesting reading .Worked in R.S. Logans , Whittingehame dr , Jordanhill for 14 years in 60 /70s. Later sold to Willie Watson , Watson Bros ( Airdrie ) ltd . Continued with them as Service Manager when changed to Vauxhall dealership . At that time he had dealerships in Airdrie , Bellshill , Coatbridge and Cumbernauld . The son Douglas Watson liked his motor bikes . Peter Kelly was service manager in High st Airdrie at that time / Sold to Fraser & Crawford and subsequently Fiat dealership , now flats .Without going through all the posts again , few discrepancies and comments . If memory serves me correctly ,
Mickey Oates started of in Cromwell St as did Jim Watt .
Prossers were never in Jordanhill . Had parts dept in Arlington st . Round the corner from Gaults ( parts ) on Woodlands rd . Also round the corner from Joseph Lucas .
Anderson of Newton Mearns moved to the Gallowgate ( Across from where Morrisons store is now ) and subsequently Mount Vernon.
Queensborough Motors was owned by the Henry Bros , John who ran the workshop and his brother (who i've forgot his name ) was more into the parts dept .Sure one of them married an American lady and were good Church people
Wylie & Lochhead had a Renault showroom in St Vincent st and a parts dept and workshop in Berkley St and were also Funeral Directors . Alec was one of the parts guys , only had one hand and always asked for the oval plate number ( equivalent to chassis number ) before he would look up parts .
Saturday 28th July 2012l
ian2144 said:
" Any one remember SASCO the car breakers on Netherton Road ? "
Spent many a day in SASCO owned by Hank Toet and also ran by his sons Hank jnr and Billy .Started of at Fordneuk St Bridgeston
Scottish Motor Services still on the go ,I think it was the McMillans ( Hugh ? ) from Milngavie who started it .
Gaulds were the RR dealers and may have been taken over by A. and D. Fraser, Ltd., 65 Springkell Avenue, Maxwell Park, ( Later Appleyards ) Big John Findlay was the Service Manager .
A&D Fraser used to store a lot of their new cars in Washington st where we often uplifted new cars bought for stock as well as Maxwell park .
Other Ford dealerships wer Croft at the Gallowgate and George and Jobling ( parts dept in Bishop st ? )
Turners in Brown st was also kept busy with specialist tuning , Lucas spares and radio fitting .Stevie Rankin later left and started his own business Motorsound over in the south side .
I knew a few in Melvin Motors , Lauderdale gdns . Davy Scott and Tommy Anthony and Bryce ? the service manager .
Peter Holmes were always good people / company to do business with
.
Used to use Pistons and Components at Gt Western rd / Napiershall st a lot . There was also a good car bodyshop / paint shop further down Napiershall st , damned If I can remember the name .
Could go on and on , but these are just some I remember without going back through the threads .
Mickey Oates started of in Cromwell St as did Jim Watt .
Prossers were never in Jordanhill . Had parts dept in Arlington st . Round the corner from Gaults ( parts ) on Woodlands rd . Also round the corner from Joseph Lucas .
Anderson of Newton Mearns moved to the Gallowgate ( Across from where Morrisons store is now ) and subsequently Mount Vernon.
Queensborough Motors was owned by the Henry Bros , John who ran the workshop and his brother (who i've forgot his name ) was more into the parts dept .Sure one of them married an American lady and were good Church people
Wylie & Lochhead had a Renault showroom in St Vincent st and a parts dept and workshop in Berkley St and were also Funeral Directors . Alec was one of the parts guys , only had one hand and always asked for the oval plate number ( equivalent to chassis number ) before he would look up parts .
Saturday 28th July 2012l
ian2144 said:
" Any one remember SASCO the car breakers on Netherton Road ? "
Spent many a day in SASCO owned by Hank Toet and also ran by his sons Hank jnr and Billy .Started of at Fordneuk St Bridgeston
Scottish Motor Services still on the go ,I think it was the McMillans ( Hugh ? ) from Milngavie who started it .
Gaulds were the RR dealers and may have been taken over by A. and D. Fraser, Ltd., 65 Springkell Avenue, Maxwell Park, ( Later Appleyards ) Big John Findlay was the Service Manager .
A&D Fraser used to store a lot of their new cars in Washington st where we often uplifted new cars bought for stock as well as Maxwell park .
Other Ford dealerships wer Croft at the Gallowgate and George and Jobling ( parts dept in Bishop st ? )
Turners in Brown st was also kept busy with specialist tuning , Lucas spares and radio fitting .Stevie Rankin later left and started his own business Motorsound over in the south side .
I knew a few in Melvin Motors , Lauderdale gdns . Davy Scott and Tommy Anthony and Bryce ? the service manager .
Peter Holmes were always good people / company to do business with
.
Used to use Pistons and Components at Gt Western rd / Napiershall st a lot . There was also a good car bodyshop / paint shop further down Napiershall st , damned If I can remember the name .
Could go on and on , but these are just some I remember without going back through the threads .
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