Rover V8 EFI wont run pulling my hair out now!!!
Discussion
Good afternoon new member here,
firstly sorry for hi-jacking your forum but I was very impressed with members assistance to some one with a problem like mine in an earlier post.
I have a range rover classic 1988 with a v8 EFI flapper system in it that I have been restoring, (not getting to much assistance on rover site).
when I bought it the engine has been rebuilt with shells, rings etc I have been doing body repairs then thought it was time to try and start it for the first time the other day only to find it pops and bang but it will not run,
I have so far done a compression check getting around 150-180 PSI, put in fresh petrol, it has a new fuel pump, dizzy cap/rotor arm new leads and distributor module fitted on distributor (old one was 2 pin new one 3 pin) new plugs. After some testing I found the main relay next to ECU is not pulling in properly so this has also been replaced. when cranking it tries to fire the knocks back if that's the right word as though the timing is out, I have moved the distributor but it does not make a lot of difference, have had a timing light on and it appears to be firing between 6 degrees and TDC bit awkward to look at at cranking speed,
I have done all the diagnostic checks in the manual and all seems to check out I have approx. 35 psi fuel pump pressure but although its coughing and spitting it will not run. I have power going into the power capacitor and a voltage at each of the 8 wires coming out for the injectorsI also have 12 volts at each injector plug, but I cannot hear any click when I swiftly operate the throttle butterfly, if I operate the flap in the air flow unit I can hear the fuel pump run, I have checked the timing again and again and I am now close to the point of despair can any one tell me how I can tell if the injectors are firing, (the cold start injector does not fire during cranking)
I am close to the point of stripping the engine down, my initial thought was camshaft timing but with the rocker box off no1 valves are both closed on compression stroke so now not sure, my other fault is ECU faulty but don't want to fork out for replacement if I'm not sure, have a big blue spark at coil HT and sparking at plugs. I was also wondering as it has not been started for around 18 months whether the fuel has gummed up the injectors, now getting to the point I'm worried about burning the starter motor out any help/idea's greatly appreciated
thanks all
firstly sorry for hi-jacking your forum but I was very impressed with members assistance to some one with a problem like mine in an earlier post.
I have a range rover classic 1988 with a v8 EFI flapper system in it that I have been restoring, (not getting to much assistance on rover site).
when I bought it the engine has been rebuilt with shells, rings etc I have been doing body repairs then thought it was time to try and start it for the first time the other day only to find it pops and bang but it will not run,
I have so far done a compression check getting around 150-180 PSI, put in fresh petrol, it has a new fuel pump, dizzy cap/rotor arm new leads and distributor module fitted on distributor (old one was 2 pin new one 3 pin) new plugs. After some testing I found the main relay next to ECU is not pulling in properly so this has also been replaced. when cranking it tries to fire the knocks back if that's the right word as though the timing is out, I have moved the distributor but it does not make a lot of difference, have had a timing light on and it appears to be firing between 6 degrees and TDC bit awkward to look at at cranking speed,
I have done all the diagnostic checks in the manual and all seems to check out I have approx. 35 psi fuel pump pressure but although its coughing and spitting it will not run. I have power going into the power capacitor and a voltage at each of the 8 wires coming out for the injectorsI also have 12 volts at each injector plug, but I cannot hear any click when I swiftly operate the throttle butterfly, if I operate the flap in the air flow unit I can hear the fuel pump run, I have checked the timing again and again and I am now close to the point of despair can any one tell me how I can tell if the injectors are firing, (the cold start injector does not fire during cranking)
I am close to the point of stripping the engine down, my initial thought was camshaft timing but with the rocker box off no1 valves are both closed on compression stroke so now not sure, my other fault is ECU faulty but don't want to fork out for replacement if I'm not sure, have a big blue spark at coil HT and sparking at plugs. I was also wondering as it has not been started for around 18 months whether the fuel has gummed up the injectors, now getting to the point I'm worried about burning the starter motor out any help/idea's greatly appreciated
thanks all
You say you have done all the minor checks but don't mention spark.
Do you have spark?
Lots of help on this site - http://www.wedgeneering.co.uk/TVR%20390SE%20p1.htm
And here - http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/
Do you have spark?
Lots of help on this site - http://www.wedgeneering.co.uk/TVR%20390SE%20p1.htm
And here - http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/
Maybe of no use but this is what I would do:
Forget about the injection stuff (disconnect it) and see if it will start and run on Ez-start.
If yes - it's the injection stuff
If no - it's the cam timing or spark plug lead ordering.
I once rebuilt an engine and followed the wrong timing mark (I only realised when I got a new lower sprocket which had a decent factory mark!) - the car started and idled fine but had virtually no power, the real mark was around 30 degrees around the crank.
Forget about the injection stuff (disconnect it) and see if it will start and run on Ez-start.
If yes - it's the injection stuff
If no - it's the cam timing or spark plug lead ordering.
I once rebuilt an engine and followed the wrong timing mark (I only realised when I got a new lower sprocket which had a decent factory mark!) - the car started and idled fine but had virtually no power, the real mark was around 30 degrees around the crank.
I have just re read your post. So it looks like you have never seen this engine running.
Remove all spark plugs
Then it may take 2 people to do this but.
Get number 1 piston (on right hand side of engine, when looking at engine fro front) to top dead centre on compression stroke.Do this by turning engine with a socket on crank. Make sure its the compression stroke by sticking a finger over its spark plug hole and you should feel it blowing air out.
When its at top dead centre take off distributor cap and make sure the rotor arm is pointing to the correct plug lead.
If its isnt then report back here.
Colin
Remove all spark plugs
Then it may take 2 people to do this but.
Get number 1 piston (on right hand side of engine, when looking at engine fro front) to top dead centre on compression stroke.Do this by turning engine with a socket on crank. Make sure its the compression stroke by sticking a finger over its spark plug hole and you should feel it blowing air out.
When its at top dead centre take off distributor cap and make sure the rotor arm is pointing to the correct plug lead.
If its isnt then report back here.
Colin
Just for info what you describe is the symptoms of a distributor being 180 degrees out. They have a keyway on the bottom of them that also drives the oil pump. It is possible to put this back into the engine wrong. Symptoms are back firing and partial ignition. Its one of the most basic checks but its the simplest fixes. I have known at least 4 people do this whilst rebuilding these engines.
wuckfitracing said:
Just for info what you describe is the symptoms of a distributor being 180 degrees out. They have a keyway on the bottom of them that also drives the oil pump. It is possible to put this back into the engine wrong. Symptoms are back firing and partial ignition. Its one of the most basic checks but its the simplest fixes. I have known at least 4 people do this whilst rebuilding these engines.
Good point..it sounds like everything else is good to go....
Agree with those above, also having put a dissy back incorrectly in the past! Double check No 1 TDC and ensure it does align with no 1 HT connection. Likewise it is not uncommon for the timing marks to be way out so again ensure you do have No 1 at TDC and double check where the timing marks actually sit.
If you've tried cranking and cranking it then quickly pull a plug out and see if you can smell petrol both on the plug and down the bore. Quite often you can also smell it out of the exhaust pipe.
Where abouts are you in the country? If all else fails and you are locally to one of the Wedge boys we could always head over just to try the ECU?
If you've tried cranking and cranking it then quickly pull a plug out and see if you can smell petrol both on the plug and down the bore. Quite often you can also smell it out of the exhaust pipe.
Where abouts are you in the country? If all else fails and you are locally to one of the Wedge boys we could always head over just to try the ECU?
If my flapper is not starting then I also check the bullet connector (close to the AFM) in the cable (white with black trace) if it is well connected.
This provides an ignition signal to the ECU. Without it, it won't fire the injectors. You mentioned the injectors not firing, so perhaps worth a look.
Rob
This provides an ignition signal to the ECU. Without it, it won't fire the injectors. You mentioned the injectors not firing, so perhaps worth a look.
Rob
wuckfitracing said:
Just for info what you describe is the symptoms of a distributor being 180 degrees out. They have a keyway on the bottom of them that also drives the oil pump. It is possible to put this back into the engine wrong. Symptoms are back firing and partial ignition. Its one of the most basic checks but its the simplest fixes. I have known at least 4 people do this whilst rebuilding these engines.
+1This was my first thought on reading OP's thread; similar thread on here a few years ago IIRC.
thanks for all your help to date ..
have again checked the distributor definitely pointing to no 1 at tdc, valves both shut, I put a pressure gauge in the cold start injector fuel line pressurised it then pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked the engine with one injector plugged in others unplugged I watched the pressure gauge tick slowly down so guessing the injectors are firing although I cant hear them ticking, agree it definitely sounds like timing out but it checks out, bit the bullet tonight and pulled the timing chest off to check valve timing and unfortunately for me it seems spot on thought I was onto something... need to double check crank pulley timing marks against piston now also need to order new gaskets so will keep you all updated when I get it back together. will also check the wire at AFM
have again checked the distributor definitely pointing to no 1 at tdc, valves both shut, I put a pressure gauge in the cold start injector fuel line pressurised it then pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked the engine with one injector plugged in others unplugged I watched the pressure gauge tick slowly down so guessing the injectors are firing although I cant hear them ticking, agree it definitely sounds like timing out but it checks out, bit the bullet tonight and pulled the timing chest off to check valve timing and unfortunately for me it seems spot on thought I was onto something... need to double check crank pulley timing marks against piston now also need to order new gaskets so will keep you all updated when I get it back together. will also check the wire at AFM
Oh!!
also squirted fuel into the cold start injector hole still just coughed and banged about like the timing was out, guessing the new timing gears that were fitted are marked up ok, crankshaft keyway is around 1 o clock position camshaft keyway around 9 o clock position,, could it be as suggested injectors gone bad or is it possible for the distributor to play up internally and send bad signals even though it has a new module and the pick up coil checks out on tests?
also squirted fuel into the cold start injector hole still just coughed and banged about like the timing was out, guessing the new timing gears that were fitted are marked up ok, crankshaft keyway is around 1 o clock position camshaft keyway around 9 o clock position,, could it be as suggested injectors gone bad or is it possible for the distributor to play up internally and send bad signals even though it has a new module and the pick up coil checks out on tests?
wuckfitracing said:
Dont wish to teach you to suck eggs.Just trying to help. But are you sure its on the compression stroke . Could you feel the compression via the plug hole as you turned it to TDC.
don't worry all help/ suggestions greatly appreciated !!got the missus to stick her finger in the plug hole whilst I turned crank and I heard the air squeeze past he finger I also double checked turning it again and I believe the exhaust valve is open when its 180 out
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