Discussion
Well as the title.
The car has failed the MOT, some parts I knew were well flakey but thought in for a penny in for 40 quid.
I have not had a chance to look at any of the stuff I will mention below as yet.
I was not confident that the 20-odd-year-old had even seen a TVR (not being ageist). I do not expect leniency just thoughtfulness at the age of the car perhaps. The last MOT at the same place had an old guy who served an apprenticeship at Jag.
Anyhow back to the here and now, is just me, are these vibrating ramps a little harsh on older cars and better suited for a modern vehicle.
I think the thing shook the car too violently for my liking.
Will probably leave the car wrapped up in the garage for another year I have spent far too much time on it lately. The upshot is the flakey Is intermittent lights I need to trace the bad connection, this is hard as they work most of the time and then don't then do so very frustrating. The passenger pod also flops down when off rather than closing with grace...
Now the reported main failure relates to wheel bearings, one front and both rear.
The front I understand is taper so a nip up will suffice?
Now to the rears, are they adjustable?
Also is there any leeway by way of a manual for free play? If so then I might need to point this out to them if not then new bearings it will be, although handy with a spanner I do not have access to a press if needed.
All comments welcome, many thanks.
The car has failed the MOT, some parts I knew were well flakey but thought in for a penny in for 40 quid.
I have not had a chance to look at any of the stuff I will mention below as yet.
I was not confident that the 20-odd-year-old had even seen a TVR (not being ageist). I do not expect leniency just thoughtfulness at the age of the car perhaps. The last MOT at the same place had an old guy who served an apprenticeship at Jag.
Anyhow back to the here and now, is just me, are these vibrating ramps a little harsh on older cars and better suited for a modern vehicle.
I think the thing shook the car too violently for my liking.
Will probably leave the car wrapped up in the garage for another year I have spent far too much time on it lately. The upshot is the flakey Is intermittent lights I need to trace the bad connection, this is hard as they work most of the time and then don't then do so very frustrating. The passenger pod also flops down when off rather than closing with grace...
Now the reported main failure relates to wheel bearings, one front and both rear.
The front I understand is taper so a nip up will suffice?
Now to the rears, are they adjustable?
Also is there any leeway by way of a manual for free play? If so then I might need to point this out to them if not then new bearings it will be, although handy with a spanner I do not have access to a press if needed.
All comments welcome, many thanks.
I've only ever experienced a shaking platform as part of a roadworthiness test in Spain in 2003 as part of their itv test (MoT equivalent).
I wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
I wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
sixor8 said:
I've only ever experienced a shaking platform as part of a roadworthiness test in Spain in 2003 as part of their itv test (MoT equivalent).
I wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
Part of some peoples MOT set up, yesI wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
t400ble said:
sixor8 said:
I've only ever experienced a shaking platform as part of a roadworthiness test in Spain in 2003 as part of their itv test (MoT equivalent).
I wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
Part of some peoples MOT set up, yesI wasn't aware they were used here (?). In my small data sample, I've used 3 different MoT testing stations this year and not seen them used. It may be part of the reason 40 year old cars were made exempt. That sort of shaking would likely not just test a car, but possibly damage it!
Wheel Bearings and lights all fixable. The rears will require a new hub nut and plenty of torque to undo and retighten. I also used some Loctite thread sealer that will require plenty of heat to remove the nut once cured. The lights are always down to poor earths, loose connections or simply blown fuses. Don't give up as the bearings are cheap and easily changeable once you have the tools and time to do the work.
front wheel bearings are an easy fix...just tighten-up the fixing-nut until play has gone....if you want to invest 15min more, take the outer bearing out, re-grease it, put it back and fix the nut. the fonts are taper-style bearings from Ford.
rears arent adjustable, those are (non-taper) bearings:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
the vibrating -platform you mention is quite common nowadays and nothing really critical.
you would be suprised what you could see when fixign a camera to record you suspension-movement during normal-driving on british b/c-roads.
rears arent adjustable, those are (non-taper) bearings:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
the vibrating -platform you mention is quite common nowadays and nothing really critical.
you would be suprised what you could see when fixign a camera to record you suspension-movement during normal-driving on british b/c-roads.
"I was not confident that the 20-odd-year-old had even seen a TVR (not being ageist). I do not expect leniency just thoughtfulness at the age of the car perhaps. The last MOT at the same place had an old guy who served an apprenticeship at Jag."
Hmm....I wonder if the youngish MOT tester may have confused the small amount of natural play present in the driveshaft UJ with his perception of "excessive" play in the wheel bearing. As the driveshaft acts as the top link, when you rock the wheel up and down you will feel some play in the needle rollers inside the UJ. The ex-Jag trained old guy would have known this.
Or, he knows his stuff and both wheel bearings are in fact actually shagged. Depends on mileage and how much harsh treatment they've had so far of course. He would've needed an assistant to help him determine where the fault lies.
Jack it up with the wheel clearly off the ground and an axle stand in place under the chassis for safety, get someone to rock the wheel gently up and down to demonstrate the freeplay present while you get underneath to see where the play is coming from. Bearing, UJ or a bit of both. There wont be any play at all in a new rear bearing but there will be a tiny, tiny bit in the front once it's correctly adjusted. Also, get the offending front wheel off the ground and spin it and listen for noise compared to the other (good) side. If it's noisy, replace it.
Hmm....I wonder if the youngish MOT tester may have confused the small amount of natural play present in the driveshaft UJ with his perception of "excessive" play in the wheel bearing. As the driveshaft acts as the top link, when you rock the wheel up and down you will feel some play in the needle rollers inside the UJ. The ex-Jag trained old guy would have known this.
Or, he knows his stuff and both wheel bearings are in fact actually shagged. Depends on mileage and how much harsh treatment they've had so far of course. He would've needed an assistant to help him determine where the fault lies.
Jack it up with the wheel clearly off the ground and an axle stand in place under the chassis for safety, get someone to rock the wheel gently up and down to demonstrate the freeplay present while you get underneath to see where the play is coming from. Bearing, UJ or a bit of both. There wont be any play at all in a new rear bearing but there will be a tiny, tiny bit in the front once it's correctly adjusted. Also, get the offending front wheel off the ground and spin it and listen for noise compared to the other (good) side. If it's noisy, replace it.
Many thanks for the input and replies.
Yes, the lights are an easy fix, in fact, done. Well until the next time anyhow
. Even the light pod falls gracefully again now.
Not jacked up the rear yet, may well do that at the weekend.
@Boxhiller, thanks for the info kind of matches that implied on old Jag and other forums that the movement may not be related to bearings but could be naturally inherent in the design.
I will need to jack it up and have a look, to be sure. If it is anything other than bearings or nothing, then I may well try another MOT place.
I was struggling last year as the lowness of the front could give issues navigating the rolling road (brake test) that precedes the ramp. Most places refused to MOT for fear of damaging the spoiler when I told them the clearance. I must say the guy clonked down onto the rollers and it was mighty close to grounding at the front.
Yes, the lights are an easy fix, in fact, done. Well until the next time anyhow
. Even the light pod falls gracefully again now. Not jacked up the rear yet, may well do that at the weekend.
@Boxhiller, thanks for the info kind of matches that implied on old Jag and other forums that the movement may not be related to bearings but could be naturally inherent in the design.
I will need to jack it up and have a look, to be sure. If it is anything other than bearings or nothing, then I may well try another MOT place.
I was struggling last year as the lowness of the front could give issues navigating the rolling road (brake test) that precedes the ramp. Most places refused to MOT for fear of damaging the spoiler when I told them the clearance. I must say the guy clonked down onto the rollers and it was mighty close to grounding at the front.
Well blow me down....jacked up the rear of the car this morning, axle stands, got my son round for a bit of muscle.
I wobbled the wheel whilst waiting for my helper, no movement at all when held left and right of the wheel, movement when held top and bottom... mmmm.
Crawled under the car and did the same, as mentioned a couple of times with my son repeating steps for both sides, the UJ's have slight movement when held top and bottom. Thanks to those that pointed this out.
Guess I will have to have a conversation with the MOT center in due course, should be an interesting conversation as the manager is a bit of a smarmy arse in my book.
Any old how thanks for tips.
Edit: Rebooked for the 26th so see how that goes?
I wobbled the wheel whilst waiting for my helper, no movement at all when held left and right of the wheel, movement when held top and bottom... mmmm.
Crawled under the car and did the same, as mentioned a couple of times with my son repeating steps for both sides, the UJ's have slight movement when held top and bottom. Thanks to those that pointed this out.
Guess I will have to have a conversation with the MOT center in due course, should be an interesting conversation as the manager is a bit of a smarmy arse in my book.
Any old how thanks for tips.
Edit: Rebooked for the 26th so see how that goes?
Edited by BlueWedgy on Saturday 18th June 17:12
Hi Adam,
Yes, I have packed the outer UJ's, the inners as I have seen on here in a previous thread are not that accessible with the 2 grease guns that I have, so will look at those another time.
I will have a chat with the maintenance guys on Monday, to see what they can offer?
However It did improve a little....time will tell.
I spoke with the same guy at the MOT place he was not overly receptive, as I suspected. Still find out next Sunday.
Yes, I have packed the outer UJ's, the inners as I have seen on here in a previous thread are not that accessible with the 2 grease guns that I have, so will look at those another time.
I will have a chat with the maintenance guys on Monday, to see what they can offer?
However It did improve a little....time will tell.
I spoke with the same guy at the MOT place he was not overly receptive, as I suspected. Still find out next Sunday.
I had a similar issue years ago with a Mot centre that stated the back lit number plate on my griff was illegal. He even produced the relevant paragraph in the rules. When I pointed out that it may be illegal on new cars the rule could not be applied retrospectively. He said I would have to bolt lights on the back of the car.
In the end to preserve my sanity I decided it was not worth trying to convince someone who had already made their mind up. I gave up and went to a different centre, I lost the fee but was far easier in the end.
Just a thought.
In the end to preserve my sanity I decided it was not worth trying to convince someone who had already made their mind up. I gave up and went to a different centre, I lost the fee but was far easier in the end.
Just a thought.
Yes don't disagree, it is a free retest so will wait and see. If they are steadfast in their approach then another MOT station it is.
Just for others that feel that the shaker is a bit too much, here is a reply from the DVSA (ex-VOSA)
Good afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the MOT tester using shaker plates when testing your vehicle – these plates are approved pieces of equipment for one person test lanes and as such must be used during the MOT to check suspension and steering components, so you can not request that they are not used as this would mean the test is not carried out correctly and potential faults not found.
Regards
Ian
MOT Product Specialist | Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) | The Axis Building | 112 Upper Parliament Street | Nottingham NG1 6LP
Email : MOT@dvsa.gov.uk
Just for others that feel that the shaker is a bit too much, here is a reply from the DVSA (ex-VOSA)
Good afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the MOT tester using shaker plates when testing your vehicle – these plates are approved pieces of equipment for one person test lanes and as such must be used during the MOT to check suspension and steering components, so you can not request that they are not used as this would mean the test is not carried out correctly and potential faults not found.
Regards
Ian
MOT Product Specialist | Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) | The Axis Building | 112 Upper Parliament Street | Nottingham NG1 6LP
Email : MOT@dvsa.gov.uk
Hi Ian,
The reply got my juices running on this, so I posed a few more questions. For those that are interested, below is a more comprehensive response.
"Good evening,
Thank you for your response and apologies.
MOT tests have traditionally been carried out by two people, the qualified MOT tester who carries out the majority of the test, makes the decisions and issues the certificate. However for some parts of the MOT an assistant is required, this includes shaking and rocking the steering and suspension.
As MOT equipment technology improved then the shaker plates became available which meant that the part of the test that an assistant was required could now be carried out by one person, i.e. the tester, using the shaker plates to do all the movement required to check the steering and suspension.
These are what DVSA refer to as one person testing lanes.
All checks that are required in the MOT are in the MOT Inspection manual here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-...
Certain parts as stated require an assistant such as section 2.1.3 Steering Linkage condition
It states in instruction 3 :
Get an assistant to rock the steering wheel in both directions against the resistance of the ground or use wheel play detectors in rotational mode.
The wheel play detectors – commonly called shaker plates- are approved for use in MOT garages by the Garage Equipment Association on behalf of DVSA, the approved equipment is the only equipment allowed to be used for an MOT test - https://gea.co.uk/dvsa-acceptable-equipment/
To answer your other points – if a piece of authorised equipment is not working then the test station is not allowed to continue carrying out MOTs until the equipment is repaired or replaced. Testing must cease immediately in most cases.
In some cases if pieces of equipment stop working then a short time is allowed e.g. if the roller brake tester breaks down then testing can continue for up to two working days using the approved decelerometer.
This is covered in the MOT Guide, a document that all test stations are aware of and refer to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide
In section B under the sub heading Premises and Equipment it states :
· where a roller or plate brake tester malfunctions testing may continue, for up to 2 working days from the time the defect occurred, using the DVSA approved decelerometer - only tests booked before the malfunction can be carried out under this arrangement
· where the wheel free play detector malfunctions at an ATL or OPTL approved VTS, testing may continue for 7 calendar days from the time the defect occurred, using the conventional method with an assistant for those specific parts of the test - after that testing cannot continue
Note, here that if the wheel play detectors are not working then test stations can revert to using an assistant for a limited time.
In a one person test lane (OPTL) or an Automated Test Lane (ATL) which also enables one person to complete the full test then the use of the approved equipment is mandatory or the test will be deemed not to have been completed correctly.
Some test stations do not have this equipment and still opt to use an assistant so if you are unhappy with a tester using the plates then you could take your vehicle to a test station that still uses an assistant to shake the suspension and steering.
I hope this information is useful.
Regards
Ian"
MOT Product Specialist | Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) | The Axis Building | 112 Upper Parliament Street | Nottingham NG1 6LP
The reply got my juices running on this, so I posed a few more questions. For those that are interested, below is a more comprehensive response.
"Good evening,
Thank you for your response and apologies.
MOT tests have traditionally been carried out by two people, the qualified MOT tester who carries out the majority of the test, makes the decisions and issues the certificate. However for some parts of the MOT an assistant is required, this includes shaking and rocking the steering and suspension.
As MOT equipment technology improved then the shaker plates became available which meant that the part of the test that an assistant was required could now be carried out by one person, i.e. the tester, using the shaker plates to do all the movement required to check the steering and suspension.
These are what DVSA refer to as one person testing lanes.
All checks that are required in the MOT are in the MOT Inspection manual here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-...
Certain parts as stated require an assistant such as section 2.1.3 Steering Linkage condition
It states in instruction 3 :
Get an assistant to rock the steering wheel in both directions against the resistance of the ground or use wheel play detectors in rotational mode.
The wheel play detectors – commonly called shaker plates- are approved for use in MOT garages by the Garage Equipment Association on behalf of DVSA, the approved equipment is the only equipment allowed to be used for an MOT test - https://gea.co.uk/dvsa-acceptable-equipment/
To answer your other points – if a piece of authorised equipment is not working then the test station is not allowed to continue carrying out MOTs until the equipment is repaired or replaced. Testing must cease immediately in most cases.
In some cases if pieces of equipment stop working then a short time is allowed e.g. if the roller brake tester breaks down then testing can continue for up to two working days using the approved decelerometer.
This is covered in the MOT Guide, a document that all test stations are aware of and refer to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide
In section B under the sub heading Premises and Equipment it states :
· where a roller or plate brake tester malfunctions testing may continue, for up to 2 working days from the time the defect occurred, using the DVSA approved decelerometer - only tests booked before the malfunction can be carried out under this arrangement
· where the wheel free play detector malfunctions at an ATL or OPTL approved VTS, testing may continue for 7 calendar days from the time the defect occurred, using the conventional method with an assistant for those specific parts of the test - after that testing cannot continue
Note, here that if the wheel play detectors are not working then test stations can revert to using an assistant for a limited time.
In a one person test lane (OPTL) or an Automated Test Lane (ATL) which also enables one person to complete the full test then the use of the approved equipment is mandatory or the test will be deemed not to have been completed correctly.
Some test stations do not have this equipment and still opt to use an assistant so if you are unhappy with a tester using the plates then you could take your vehicle to a test station that still uses an assistant to shake the suspension and steering.
I hope this information is useful.
Regards
Ian"
MOT Product Specialist | Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) | The Axis Building | 112 Upper Parliament Street | Nottingham NG1 6LP
Well Sunday has arrived, car back in for a retest....
Long pause
the car is on the road for another year 
A big thanks for those that contributed to the evidence of it not being bearings.
No apology whatsoever, from the head poncho though, what do I expect.
However the MOT person (a fair bit older) did say that the young guy, was probably not experienced enough (no say) with this type of vehicle, and he had seen it lots over the years, exhibiting the same UJ movement.
Makes me wonder how many modern tin tops or classics are having unnecessary work carried out?
Any old how appy days, bit of tax from July, then out in the wild country lanes of Essex for thrash (legally of course
).
Long pause
the car is on the road for another year A big thanks for those that contributed to the evidence of it not being bearings.
No apology whatsoever, from the head poncho though, what do I expect.
However the MOT person (a fair bit older) did say that the young guy, was probably not experienced enough (no say) with this type of vehicle, and he had seen it lots over the years, exhibiting the same UJ movement.
Makes me wonder how many modern tin tops or classics are having unnecessary work carried out?
Any old how appy days, bit of tax from July, then out in the wild country lanes of Essex for thrash (legally of course
).Edited by BlueWedgy on Sunday 26th June 14:12
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