420 SEAC restoration begins
Discussion
Hi Phil
Your chassis dosent look all that bad from your pics, its strange to see the cracks but I dont think there from bad welding, proberly poor quality tube used at those points, you will be able to see what the wall thickness is when you replace or drill for draining holes, im trying to work out what you want to do with the rear suspention, i run a set of SH tie bars and think there good bits of kit.
Ive also made a new perspex fog cover last week, ill take some pics tomorrow and post them to you, i dont do any thing fancy to fit it to the car.
Looking at the front of your chassis and looking at the 2 tubes coming from the top of the suspention towers, im sure the left tube looks normal bit the right hand side should be curved down to the bottom box section, ill have a look tomorrow at the front of my chassis tomorrow but interseting to see what some one has done, this may have been done to stop the suspention tops from moving under load but it looks like there is a lot of room for the steering rack and altenator.
You are going to have a hot looking SEAC Phil
Cambelt
Your chassis dosent look all that bad from your pics, its strange to see the cracks but I dont think there from bad welding, proberly poor quality tube used at those points, you will be able to see what the wall thickness is when you replace or drill for draining holes, im trying to work out what you want to do with the rear suspention, i run a set of SH tie bars and think there good bits of kit.
Ive also made a new perspex fog cover last week, ill take some pics tomorrow and post them to you, i dont do any thing fancy to fit it to the car.
Looking at the front of your chassis and looking at the 2 tubes coming from the top of the suspention towers, im sure the left tube looks normal bit the right hand side should be curved down to the bottom box section, ill have a look tomorrow at the front of my chassis tomorrow but interseting to see what some one has done, this may have been done to stop the suspention tops from moving under load but it looks like there is a lot of room for the steering rack and altenator.
You are going to have a hot looking SEAC Phil
Cambelt
phil the funds you have are doing a decent job so far...
I can understand your desire to have an ultimate SEAC, but to me even as the car stands its an awesome machine...but i look forward to seeing your creation.
I am interested in the SH tiebars phil, but how much room do they allow wider rear tyre fitment? Hearing of 245 tyre sizes & biggers on the rear of Wedges/SEAC's & not rub somewhere amazes me.
I can understand your desire to have an ultimate SEAC, but to me even as the car stands its an awesome machine...but i look forward to seeing your creation.
I am interested in the SH tiebars phil, but how much room do they allow wider rear tyre fitment? Hearing of 245 tyre sizes & biggers on the rear of Wedges/SEAC's & not rub somewhere amazes me.
Edited by Waynester on Saturday 12th June 19:57
I've not measured but I believe you gain an extra 10mm or so.
Maybe SH can chime in here?
I think Cambell has 245/16's on one of his cars among others here with and without SEAC's.
We have thinner panels or so I'm led to believe to you'll gain an extra inch there
Wayne,
I noted when I first met you that your rear exhaust pipe is around an inch larger bore than stock. Did you tell me that that was the diameter of the entire rear section of pipe or not?
+, I'd like a louder exhaust by around 10dB.
Phil
420 SEAC
Maybe SH can chime in here?
I think Cambell has 245/16's on one of his cars among others here with and without SEAC's.
We have thinner panels or so I'm led to believe to you'll gain an extra inch there
Wayne,
I noted when I first met you that your rear exhaust pipe is around an inch larger bore than stock. Did you tell me that that was the diameter of the entire rear section of pipe or not?
+, I'd like a louder exhaust by around 10dB.
Phil
420 SEAC
The SH tie rods give about 12mm clearance and also allow articulation in two planes so that the tie rod is not distorted sideways. As the suspension moves up and down, the bar has to twist slightly as the "up and down" movement is in an arc.
As for the top link... It doesn't work on a TVR.
The idea is good in that the drive shaft is no longer acting as the top wishbone but it is not that simple. Adding a top link to the trailing arm setup causes other issues which is why TVR could not go down that route. If you look at the piccy of the esprit, you will see why. The drive shaft is not a UJ but a CV joint. It has to be a CV joint so that the drive shaft can adjust its length with the suspension movement. You can't have 3 wishbones all with a fixed length. Two is fine as the hub carrier will change camber to compensate. Adding a third fixed element then prevent the hub carrier from moving thus locking the suspension and putting immense pressure on the UJs as the setup tries to compress/elongate them. This situation means that drive shaft is under great stress - even more than with the normal setup. Adding a top link without changing the drive shafts, hubs, hub carrier etc simply doesn't work.
The TVR solution actually works very well. The A frame provides pretty good triangulation but it needs some additional support as the outer end will move forward and back under acceleration and breaking. Hence the tie bar. Without it, the A frame setup is worse than the trailing arm because of this movement. The key to making this setup work is to reduce the movement of the a frame by using poly bushes and getting some articulation into the tie rod so that it is not twisting which the normal bar does as the hub carrier moves up and down. Couple that with controlling the suspension movement so that it stays in the sweet spot, especially for the UJs and the setup works very well.... well enough to take 1.8g through bends albeit on slicks.
As for the top link... It doesn't work on a TVR.
The idea is good in that the drive shaft is no longer acting as the top wishbone but it is not that simple. Adding a top link to the trailing arm setup causes other issues which is why TVR could not go down that route. If you look at the piccy of the esprit, you will see why. The drive shaft is not a UJ but a CV joint. It has to be a CV joint so that the drive shaft can adjust its length with the suspension movement. You can't have 3 wishbones all with a fixed length. Two is fine as the hub carrier will change camber to compensate. Adding a third fixed element then prevent the hub carrier from moving thus locking the suspension and putting immense pressure on the UJs as the setup tries to compress/elongate them. This situation means that drive shaft is under great stress - even more than with the normal setup. Adding a top link without changing the drive shafts, hubs, hub carrier etc simply doesn't work.
The TVR solution actually works very well. The A frame provides pretty good triangulation but it needs some additional support as the outer end will move forward and back under acceleration and breaking. Hence the tie bar. Without it, the A frame setup is worse than the trailing arm because of this movement. The key to making this setup work is to reduce the movement of the a frame by using poly bushes and getting some articulation into the tie rod so that it is not twisting which the normal bar does as the hub carrier moves up and down. Couple that with controlling the suspension movement so that it stays in the sweet spot, especially for the UJs and the setup works very well.... well enough to take 1.8g through bends albeit on slicks.
My exhaust Phil is a s/s JP system which i ordered through TVRCarparts..i think? They told me that it's not the loudest in the world but it doesn't sound harsh either!
My tailpipe is a slip on i got on ebay as i wanted to extend the length to clear the rear bumper area...which tended to get stained from fumes.
In light of SH's last post...If Tiebars are still available i'm interested phil...
My tailpipe is a slip on i got on ebay as i wanted to extend the length to clear the rear bumper area...which tended to get stained from fumes.
In light of SH's last post...If Tiebars are still available i'm interested phil...
shpub said:
The key to making this setup work is to reduce the movement of the a frame by using poly bushes and getting some articulation into the tie rod so that it is not twisting which the normal bar does as the hub carrier moves up and down.
I thought that was the reason for that humungous rubber doughnut on the front of the tie-rod: it needs to be able to deflect far enough to accommodate the A-frame's swing... but then it becomes a compromise in itself...HOTTY said:
just fitted tie bars on someones 400, the bars are allowed to roll a little on the ends which must be normal but I thought that this sort of acted as twisting when in normal use.
Ian nice to see that your back from your hairy biking trip, you sorted a replacement bike or hired ?
Hotty
Now then Stephen; ended up buying another of the same bike! Couple of years younger, a third of the mileage, one owner, never used in winter etc... tidy. Figured that as I was losing my no-claims and my £400 excess (due to the clown who hit me refusing to admit liability even though his own insurers say it's clearly his fault as I was stationary at a crossing!) I may as well get something worthwhile.Ian nice to see that your back from your hairy biking trip, you sorted a replacement bike or hired ?
Hotty
I'll be down your way next weekend with nursey... some country house hotel over by Ashbourne. Probably take the TVR if the weather improves so if you hear distant thunder, that'll be me
Wayne,
I'm waiting to meet up with my guys again to discuss the tie bar issue, however I feel we will still modify the chassis/suspension.
You will have first refusal on the tie bars, ok?
Steve,
I'm impressed.
1.8G round the twisty's is very good, around twice as good as a Corvette, albeit on steet tyres!
Ian,
I think that was one issue my guys brought up in discussion. They have carried out some modification work on the way the rear suspension works on Henry's car - now a daily drive. So maybe he will chime in as to if he's noticed any improvement.
Phil
420 SEAC
I'm waiting to meet up with my guys again to discuss the tie bar issue, however I feel we will still modify the chassis/suspension.
You will have first refusal on the tie bars, ok?
Steve,
I'm impressed.
1.8G round the twisty's is very good, around twice as good as a Corvette, albeit on steet tyres!
Ian,
I think that was one issue my guys brought up in discussion. They have carried out some modification work on the way the rear suspension works on Henry's car - now a daily drive. So maybe he will chime in as to if he's noticed any improvement.
Phil
420 SEAC
Todays pic's.
Chassis is pretty much done and how TVR should of constructed it.
It's now perfectly strait and one hell of a lot stronger that when it came out the factory.
The guys were told by another TVR owner that the factory were in a 'transition' period when these cars were built.
I'd use a different word.
Now for the rear suspension modifications plus all the number crunching for custom shocks and springs.
Phil
420 SEAC
Chassis is pretty much done and how TVR should of constructed it.
It's now perfectly strait and one hell of a lot stronger that when it came out the factory.
The guys were told by another TVR owner that the factory were in a 'transition' period when these cars were built.
I'd use a different word.
Now for the rear suspension modifications plus all the number crunching for custom shocks and springs.
Phil
420 SEAC
Going for galvanising at a great company called: www.wedge-galv.co.uk/
The colour's called "Dustbin Silver"
Phil
420 SEAC
The colour's called "Dustbin Silver"
Phil
420 SEAC
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